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Nations League: Greece - Slovenia (18 Nov. 2020, Georgios Kamaras, Athens)


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Guys.... What good soccer did he have us playing??? Like good soccer compared to before he came in?? Ya that shouldn't have been hard to do considering idk wtf we were playing beforehand, left handed tidley winks maybe, but definitely wasn't soccer. 

We played with big clunky goofy mids (including Baka) with zero forward vision, always looking for back passes and zero ability to take on defenders. Possession, pass% & shots mean fck all if you do nothing with it. We didn't play smooth flowing soccer today, idk what game some guys were watching. We have guys that are capable of it, but they were doing it on their own, Fortou, Tsim, Limn and I'll give mavrias credit cause he was working hard up and down the pitch. There's a lot of potential for this team but this coach refuses to let it shine. 

He's given Bakasetas the key to the city here and no one on here, in Greece or anywhere else on earth with eyes has any idea why. Absolutely refuses to play 2 wingers at once. Would rather play Fortou out of position than Baka. Won't call up the best cb's our country has ever produced, but will call up and PLAY a hasbeen who is a LB turned cb so he could stay relevant.

Can someone on here honestly explain why he played Pavlidis as a LW today and tzolis as a ST? He's clueless! I'm convinced he doesn't watch game tapes of our players, he just looks at paper states and minutes player and picks based off that, maybe experience as well (tzavellas/mavrias). 

Like he wore out Fortou and Tsim today. Tsim was alone on the left side and Fortou was basically setting up our offence cause the guy who is suppose to has no clue how to play the cam position 

 

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A win here will set off the following chain of events :  - Ranked in pot 3 for WC Qualifying - Top the following group: England, Wales, Greece, Estonia, and San Marino . (We don’t drop any p

Have a read, from Hellas Football

I might be alone on here thinking this but I’d like to see JVS take this team to World Cup qualifiers.. I think he deserves a chance. Changing coaches should not be an option right now IMO... 

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1 hour ago, J1078 said:

Geez we lost out to Hungary in our last Nations league campaign for 2nd and look what they’ve done, They’ve  made the Euros via Nations league playoff and now won there Nations league Group B and we couldn’t top group C with Slovenia, Kosovo and Moldova.. 🤦🏻‍♂️

Hungary

Serbia

Turkey

Russia

If only coach Ange and the team had got a result vs Estonia and we had a playoff ticket, i think Greece would have had a good chance to get through. Hungary have improved alot recently and deserve there spot. Scotland got lucky on penalties with Israel and then with Serbia who played terribly for the first 70 minutes before getting it going and leveling the score. Serbia with there talent should have easily beaten scotland. Today Serbia beat Russia 5-0. 

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Disappointing result, we probably played well enough to get the win but I thought we were a little flat at times. I know there are mixed feelings on JVS in general but I think his subs were good in this match, he went all out attack when it was the right time too and threw it all at Slovenia. 

I believe we will be in the mix to come in the top 2 for World Cup qualification, obviously depending on the draw. Our style of play now will see us dominate all pot 5/6 teams and most pot 4. Pot 1/2 teams will be tricky but we'll get more space in attack and considering how toothless we are in-front of goals, that will be important.

Obviously those better teams will challenge us defensively and with our best CB's not in JVS's plans it will be interesting to see how we cope with these better teams. (I am supportive of JVS keeping those guys out since he has deemed them toxic, but of course if all parties could get together and solve their issues it would be fantastic) 

For those who were asking, this is what I found in terms of seeding for WC qualifiers. Hopefully this ends up being accurate, I think the FIFA rankings will be out in the next few days so we'll know officially then. 

https://www.sport24.gr/football/ellada-katar-moyntial-gkroyp-trito-gkroyp-dynamikotitas.9054098.html

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First sub should have been tzavellas or hatzi off, Kourb to cb and tzolis to LW, instant 4-3-3. If still tied, then Zeca off, Pav or pelkas on and Kourb back to dm as a quazi 3 at the back and tsim has free reign up the left side while mavrias stays back a bit to guard the counter with Kourb and the other cb. Then eventually bakasetas or whoeves tired off, Rota or masouras in so there's 2 players and overlapping runs on both wings again to creating more speed and headaches for their tired d. We saw that Limnios and Fortou were able to make turns and get away from their defenders as they dribbled towards the box. Imagine what fetfa would have done to their d today. We needed ball skill out there and he just refused to put the right guys for that on.

It's like he absolutely expected to be up a goal or 2 after the first half and had no contingency plan if not. 

Sorry for all the ranting, I'm just so shocked with the results in these 6 games. 

Edited by gsots
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4 hours ago, AEK RE GAMOTO said:

Can anyone explain why this link states that today's tie means Greece is in Pot 4 for the upcoming World Cup draw?

Others on here are saying we are in Pot 3.

Which one is it?

 

ESPN: UEFA Nations League: Finals, promotion and relegation decided.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/uefa-nations-league/story/4235593/uefa-nations-league-whats-at-stake-in-the-final-games

Possibly in the link you have posted thd results of month November have yet to be published.

Bosnia lost both of their games which means they are going down hence Finland and Greece which made 2 victories are going up.

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3 hours ago, gsots said:

Guys.... What good soccer did he have us playing??? Like good soccer compared to before he came in?? Ya that shouldn't have been hard to do considering idk wtf we were playing beforehand, left handed tidley winks maybe, but definitely wasn't soccer. 

We played with big clunky goofy mids (including Baka) with zero forward vision, always looking for back passes and zero ability to take on defenders. Possession, pass% & shots mean fck all if you do nothing with it. We didn't play smooth flowing soccer today, idk what game some guys were watching. We have guys that are capable of it, but they were doing it on their own, Fortou, Tsim, Limn and I'll give mavrias credit cause he was working hard up and down the pitch. There's a lot of potential for this team but this coach refuses to let it shine. 

He's given Bakasetas the key to the city here and no one on here, in Greece or anywhere else on earth with eyes has any idea why. Absolutely refuses to play 2 wingers at once. Would rather play Fortou out of position than Baka. Won't call up the best cb's our country has ever produced, but will call up and PLAY a hasbeen who is a LB turned cb so he could stay relevant.

Can someone on here honestly explain why he played Pavlidis as a LW today and tzolis as a ST? He's clueless! I'm convinced he doesn't watch game tapes of our players, he just looks at paper states and minutes player and picks based off that, maybe experience as well (tzavellas/mavrias). 

Like he wore out Fortou and Tsim today. Tsim was alone on the left side and Fortou was basically setting up our offence cause the guy who is suppose to has no clue how to play the cam position 

 

There is much truth in the post of gsots! Fortounis builds our attacks practically alone and if it is not he, then perhaps Tsimikas can give an assist. Apart from them, Limnios shows some REAL skills (not the "skill" of a Ninis or a Fetfatzidis) but he was not dangerous enough. Mavrias tried to help him, but Limnios often also was practically alone.

Yes, Bakasetas should go. Fortounis should be CAM, and Bakasetas cant play on the wing. We saw that often under Skibbe. First, he is too slow. And he is lazy too. With Fortounis as a CAM and Masouras and Limnios as wingers we may perhaps create some chances, even score.

The absence of any real center forwards (not wingers, second strikers etc. etc.) doesnt help the head coach. Lets face it, Pavlidis was essentially a bicycle kick yesterday. Giakoumakis is more dangerous on paper but couldnt score. Bakasetas: a good shot and one or two passes. Tzolis: a run on the wing and a dangerous cross (it went just wide). Masouras: another run on the wing. Apart from that, none of them could produce anything in offence.

" Would rather play Fortou out of position than Baka. " - that is the essence of our offensive problems. Not even Pelkas (who plays for Fenerbahce) but Bakasetas should organize everything. In reality, he can hope Fortounis gives him a nice pass and then he can score. What he offers in offence is next to nothing. I do not understand this Bakasetas thing - he has already more than 30 caps under his belt, is obviously average and we have better options (yes even Pelkas is better).

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9 hours ago, AEK RE GAMOTO said:

Can anyone explain why this link states that today's tie means Greece is in Pot 4 for the upcoming World Cup draw?

Others on here are saying we are in Pot 3.

Which one is it?

We are ranked 29 in UEFA and we are in Pot 3 for WC qualifiers.

  • Pot 1: 1-10 ranked 
  • Pot 2: 11-20 
  • Pot 3: 21-30 
  • Pot 4: 31-40 
  • Pot 5: 41-50
  • Pot 6: 51-55

UEFA Rankings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient

FIFA WC Qualifying Draw Procedure

https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/competitions/WorldCup/02/64/22/19/2642219_DOWNLOAD.pdf

After making Pot 3, it gives me some hope we can make it 2nd if we get favorable draw

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Who does everyone want in our group?

 

Pot 1: Belgium, France, England, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Croatia, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands

Pot 2: Switzerland, Wales, Poland, Sweden, Austria, Ukraine, Serbia, Turkey, Slovakia, Romania

Pot 3: Russia, Hungary, Republic of Ireland, Czech Republic, Norway, Northern Ireland, Iceland, Scotland, Greece, Finland

Pot 4: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Albania, Bulgaria, Israel, Belarus, Georgia, Luxembourg

Pot 5: Armenia, Cyprus, Faroe Islands, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Lithuania, Latvia, Andorra

Pot 6: Malta, Moldova, Liechtenstein, Gibraltar, San Marino

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1. denmark obviously or in a lesser extend croatia. otherwise we stand very little chance to take a point from any of the rest.

2. romania or slovakia who are pretty much on the same level. poland would be very bad and id like us to avoid serbia, turkey and switzerland. wouldn't mind wales/sweden/austria

4. slovenia because they are trash. avoiding bosnia would be essential, while albania/israel/skopje are quite dangerous.

5. cyprus/estonia/lithuania/latvia

6. san marino

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I think the biggest thing is that we moved up to pot 3. Ultimately we were not going to be one of the top 2 teams to get into the playoff via national league. There were 8 other teams ahead of us so most likely we wouldn’t have been one. Also by staying in group c, it may be easier to qualify for the next euro now if we don’t make it out of our qualifying group and we win our C group we will get in via playoff.

 

For the WC draw, the only teams that scare me from pot 2 are Switzerland, Poland, Austria and Ukraine. Everyone else we can beat. My prediction for our group :

 

Croatia, Serbia, Greece, Bulgaria, Armenia, Malta

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22 minutes ago, J1078 said:

Who does everyone want in our group?

 

Pot 1: Belgium, France, England, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Croatia, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands

Pot 2: Switzerland, Wales, Poland, Sweden, Austria, Ukraine, Serbia, Turkey, Slovakia, Romania

Pot 3: Russia, Hungary, Republic of Ireland, Czech Republic, Norway, Northern Ireland, Iceland, Scotland, Greece, Finland

Pot 4: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Albania, Bulgaria, Israel, Belarus, Georgia, Luxembourg

Pot 5: Armenia, Cyprus, Faroe Islands, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Lithuania, Latvia, Andorra

Pot 6: Malta, Moldova, Liechtenstein, Gibraltar, San Marino

Pot 1. Denmark (Croatia next choice)

Pot 2. Romania (Slovakia next)

Pot 4. Bulgaria (Belarus)

Pot 5. Andorra  (Cyprus it’s a friendly)

Pot 6. San Marino (anyone is ez here)

 

 

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18 minutes ago, PaokCT said:

I think the biggest thing is that we moved up to pot 3. Ultimately we were not going to be one of the top 2 teams to get into the playoff via national league. There were 8 other teams ahead of us so most likely we wouldn’t have been one. Also by staying in group c, it may be easier to qualify for the next euro now if we don’t make it out of our qualifying group and we win our C group we will get in via playoff.

 

For the WC draw, the only teams that scare me from pot 2 are Switzerland, Poland, Austria and Ukraine. Everyone else we can beat. My prediction for our group :

 

Croatia, Serbia, Greece, Bulgaria, Armenia, Malta

I agree going to Pot 3 was huge good thing we didn’t give up a late goal and lose to Slovenia and drop to pot 4. I was more nervous about that during the 2nd half. 
From Pot 1 avoid France, Spain, and Belgium at all costs. From Pot 2 don’t want Switzerland or Ukraine. Serbia is also a good side and personally I like them so I wouldn’t want to face them.

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Baka can't play as the 8, he has -10 skill for that position. He's literally good as a 2nd st and that's it. The best thing he did yesterday was turn, take 2 steps and shoot the ball... Hardly a mind bending maneuver. 30 games and he's got 2 goals and 2 assists.... 1 penalty and a tap in from Fortou, and a 10 ft simple pass to Fortou for the assist. 

I'm still in fcking shock and awww that he put pavlidis on LW yesterday.... Like what on fcking earth was that??? 

There's something really fishy going on with this team and it'd be nice of the media actually did their fcking jobs and reported on it cause now it's just blatantly obvious. 

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1 hour ago, J1078 said:

 

Who was asking questions?? His buddy??? Asks about Kourb moving back as if that was somehow the issue out there 🤔 🤔 

Hey why'd you use Pavlidis as a LW today and not Tzolis? Also why did you wait till the 79th to bring on another attacking player when the team was clearly having problems breaking through their defense. Why do you keep playing Baka when it's clear Fortou is leaps and bounds better than him as evident in EVERY GAME HE'S PLAYED?!?! 

Like he's sitting there happy that our dancing monkeys were actually able to dance. "ya the pylons we put on the field who are only capable of the bare minimum, gave us the bare minimum, so it was a real success story". Yes it's nice that we're not playing like complete s#it but we're just amediocre 3rd pot team squeaking out results. We're not any better than what skibbe had us playing. We're only playing better and creating because of the handful of skill, class and imagination we have on the field. 

If he was actually trying to develop this team, Rota or another new rb would have played, tzolis would have played more, he would have experimented with the midfield way more since that's our biggest focal point, vasiliadis would have been given a shot. It's just the same old s#it dressed in a different jacket with a Dutch accent. 

Edited by gsots
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4 minutes ago, HellasLEAF said:

Is WC qualifying group winner goes through and 2nd spot to playoff??

I think so ya, and top 2 nations league group winners that don't qualify for wc or the 2nd place playoffs also get a playoff spot. 

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1 hour ago, HellasLEAF said:

Is WC qualifying group winner goes through and 2nd spot to playoff??

Yes group winners are qualified. The 2nd place teams go into playoff with the top two Nations League group winners joining the playoffs.

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Anyone noticed how many times we have wasted a free kick or a corner? Life would be much easier if you had Fortounis searching for Manolas or Siovas unlike Tzavellas who's never been a real CB to begin with.

Hatzidiakos is good in the build up play but I think he definitely isn't ready to be a starter yet. Needs to be tested in a tougher league because the Dutch one is soft in terms of defence.

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17 minutes ago, Boxou said:

Anyone noticed how many times we have wasted a free kick or a corner? Life would be much easier if you had Fortounis searching for Manolas or Siovas unlike Tzavellas who's never been a real CB to begin with.

Hatzidiakos is good in the build up play but I think he definitely isn't ready to be a starter yet. Needs to be tested in a tougher league because the Dutch one is soft in terms of defence.

Not only that, but also our kicks are usually always short. I feel like every corner is a near post set piece which easily gets cleared

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16 hours ago, Boxou said:

we have most of the times gotten favourable draws and im starting to thinking if that's because of UEFA's GS who's the son of Savvas Theodoridis 🙄

You got favorable draws because of a fluke called EURO 2004. But this could not carry on forever. Not only that. We did not do anything to take advantage of that miracle to develop and improve the game in Greece. Instead more infighting took place which brought us to the lowest point ever in the history of the national team losing to the likes of Faroe Islands, etc. We are now in the rebuilding process with this coach and he is moving in the right direction. Letting him go now some faction wants it would be a mistake.

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