Jump to content
Phantis Forums

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Bananas said:

Do you think he’s a liar or he believes what he says ?  I don’t have an opinion as I’ve never listened to him.

A person that believes silly things, in a non violent manner, I can still respect, even if what he believes seems ludicrous.  A person that knowingly lies, I cannot.

I used to think that, but there's  a problem with this approach...   Let's say I'm totally drunk but I believe I can drive.... Do you think I bear any responsibility?

And, would you respect me  if I spread conspiracy theories, false rumors, etc., irresponsibly for my benefit? 

This gets worse when I could either easily check out the validity of my arguments or I have been shown repeatedly that I'm wrong but I keep spewing my garbage....

How about respecting a true believer in fascism/racism/you name it....

 

....

 

PS> by the way, this is a person that Trump finds very respectable, awesome, and he sat for an interview as soon as he became president....

Edited by Hudson
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 541
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

And, then this magic box.. fixes everything needs fixing.  So the con-artist in chief, tells the cult members that he, only him, has the magic box. You have a problem with immigration, I will fix

Let Trump do his thing. He knows business better than anyone else. He has done more in 4 days than that bozo in 8 years

I said, As to the dance around the issues, some people are conservative first. The rest is finding ways to attack their opponents. If you are a conservative, you are religious; you have archaic ideas

Posted Images

19 hours ago, Hudson said:

I used to think that, but there's  a problem with this approach...   Let's say I'm totally drunk but I believe I can drive.... Do you think I bear any responsibility?

And, would you respect me  if I spread conspiracy theories, false rumors, etc., irresponsibly for my benefit? 

This gets worse when I could either easily check out the validity of my arguments or I have been shown repeatedly that I'm wrong but I keep spewing my garbage....

How about respecting a true believer in fascism/racism/you name it....

 

....

 

PS> by the way, this is a person that Trump finds very respectable, awesome, and he sat for an interview as soon as he became president....

I fully get what you’re saying.  The problem is, who becomes the arbiter of what can and can’t be said.  And how do you enforce it.  It is its own slippery slope.  Say what you want, but when you raise your hand you’ve crossed a line.  That’s my philosophy and it makes things a lot simpler.

As for the Trumpinator and Jones and men of their ilk, what is sad is not so much that they exist and say their vlakies, but rather that so many (oh so many) fall for it.  But the truth is, the sort of people that follow Trump are looking for that sort of a person to lead them.

In some ways, Trump is a good thing (hear me out) because the US is so so so divided.  No one (well the media really) saw it coming and I have to ask why not ?  I can only assume the media live in their own bubble and don’t see the reality on the ground.  Why have so many voted for Trump ?  It’s an important question.  Many dismiss it saying they’re just rednecks etc. but I don’t think that’s a cool response.

I don’t see this situation changing anytime soon either.  The establishment cries foul but they should look at themselves and how they allowed an imbecile to become the most powerful politician in the world.

I remember during the GFC seeing a protester wearing a t-shirt that made me smile.  He’d written on it “Dont worry, the French aristocracy didn’t see it coming either”, ha ha, it made me laugh.  But hey, f##k main st, throw trillions (trillions!) at Wall St. and then wonder why the country is mangled and is run by a baboon.

I don’t follow US politics closely enough to know if the establishment has woken up but if I had to guess I’d say probably not.

  • Like it 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, AchillesHeel said:

I would kick him in the nuts in hope that it would render him incapable of further reproduction....

The problem today is that the laws that have been put in place to deter the spreading of bs and hatred are only applied when it accommodates a certain objective instead of being applied uniformly and without prejudice. The use of the internet has changed the  manner that opinions are broadcast allowing anyone to say anything at anytime.....it doesn't change the fact that opinions are just that : opinions and not fact....but it tends to magnify things and make them look more important than they really are. The really worrying aspect in all this is the control applied to this process in which we are always left to pick one of two sides....as if there is no other possible alternative that we can consider. As for AJ....its his job to come up with this crap....he's just a cog in the machine.

The impression I’m getting of him (just doing a little R&D tonight) is of someone who started off sincerely pissed with things and wanting to “do something about it” but now, as you said, he’s a cog now himself.  Heck, this is how he makes his bread and butter now.  There’s no stopping it now ...

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Bananas said:

As for the Trumpinator and Jones and men of their ilk, what is sad is not so much that they exist and say their vlakies, but rather that so many (oh so many) fall for it.

Which brings us back to ...Idiocracy (✔️ your 'favorite movie of all time' if I'm not mistaken...  ? . See? I do pay attention. I actually watched it because of your mention - and enjoyed it). Unfortunately this is where we stand in the USA, which seems to work good for the Conservatives.

Democracy in the US is on a slippery slope thesedays. Big money is eroding democratic institutions and maybe serious constitutional reforms are desperately needed. The question is who's got the balls for that?

Here's something to give you an idea of how the US Congress is pretty much responsible for shielding Trump, and what they intend to do in the near future to terminate the Mueller Special Counsel Investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 US Elections. It's a little lengthy but worth a watch (not this kind )

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Bananas said:

I fully get what you’re saying.  The problem is, who becomes the arbiter of what can and can’t be said.  And how do you enforce it.  It is its own slippery slope.  Say what you want, but when you raise your hand you’ve crossed a line.  That’s my philosophy and it makes things a lot simpler....

I don't think the "slippery slope" principle is good in many real-life situations. We must recognize gradations. Same with almost everything else in life. In addition, we have to learn to recognize the false equivalency trap--that everything is of equal value or offense. For example, lying about a sexual affairs (or having a bad headache when you told others "I'm fine") is not the same as lying on a witness stand on a capital case. 

Anyway, there have to be standards; it's matters a lot in civil society. For me it's: evidence and reason. Sadly, too many people aren't familiar with logical arguments, and what constitutes evidence.  Obviously, we don't have to have courtroom  standards in everything we do, but we always have to filter out noise and idiotic arguments if we are to have a decent dialogue going.

And, this is the point: how can we have a reasonable dialogue if everything goes?..... So, sure, let anyone say what they want--in the public square and on their own domains. But if you have a medium, a forum, a classroom, etc, you have to start enforcing certain standards!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Unbelievable, Alex Jones the man who blew the most smoke up Trumps backside has been kicked off platforms, seems Trump is not all powerful when he can't prevent his most ardent supporter from being de platformed. But this isn't about Alex Jones it's about the new 'left' that cheer every time they manage to silence someone they disagree with, 15 years ago I'd never have imagined that in future it would be the 'right' that would be the guardians of free speech.

I'd never had imagined I'd be called a racist ignorant bigot if I was opposed to having multiculturalism forced on me or that people would become hysterical at hearing certain words but not seem to mind when their tax dollars are used to bomb children around the world. Strange times.

I think Carlson is spot on in his assessment.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/24/2018 at 2:02 PM, js1000 said:

I think Carlson is spot on in his assessment

 

No he is not. He's very sleek equating free speech with editorial control.

The issue is not whether to prohibit him from uttering his garbage >>>> in the public square<<< but whether everyone (indeed private companies) have a right to not giving him a platform to spew his nonsense.

Indeed Faux News exercises lots of editorial control (being a propaganda machine for the right) as to what they allow to go out. Carlson is a hypocrite just on this count alone.

As if we are obligated under the free speech principle to give Alex Jones the Phantis platform....   Or, that.... (pick your religion) I claim the right to have access to your church audience to tell them that they're idiots for believing in fairy tales.

Edited by Epicurus
  • Like it 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/7/2018 at 4:34 PM, Lazarus said:

Anybody with half a brain should pay attention to this man and his Sep. 7, 2018 speech.

God, we miss him...?

Why is Trump incapable of making a speech like this one? I'm not talking about his illiteracy and ignorance of history or being aware of the role of institutions, but that his temperament and megalomania prevent him from saying anything close to what Obama is saying. The Don, "I alone", who is being outed by his own people as a dangerous incompetent nincompoop. 

On the other hand, he apparently speaks the language of many Americans for which no Trump trespass matters. Just today I was talking to a couple of them (long story) and were saying how they know that "Billary" will end up in jail before the end of the year. They say this without any sense of irony.... that their beloved leader has committed so much more crimes that the alleged crimes by HRC, who has been investigated by Republicans for years. .. It shows you the power of Faux News, Info Wars, and other right wing propaganda that has convinced millions of Americans about "alternative facts."

  • Like it 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe we'll be lucky enough to witness a round up of his entire family. Did anybody say shackles?

Maybe even lucky enough to witness a Presidential execution for treason? (If you're going to wish for something, wish big)

 

Edited by Pepito
Link to post
Share on other sites

Listen, Pepito....

You better be selling your beans to collect the money for the wall Trump is going to build (you'll pay for it).

It's amazing that Trump's supporters are so brainwashed. They're still talking about "lock'er up" and that "Billary" will go to jail soon. They don't seem to wonder why a Republican Congress that investigated HRC (and spent millions of $ to do it), and couldn't do it. Or, that in the last 1.5 yrs there's a Republican Congress, a Rep Prez, a Rep Attorney Gen, FBI director, etc, etc....    Funny thing, the person being investigated is Trump and his swamp gators.

 

Edited by Hudson
Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob Woodward's book, Fear, is an interesting read. I've gone through the first couple chapters. Bannon was extremely instrumental in guiding Trump's campaign and keeping the faith when almost anyone had given up, especially after the video, "grab them by the pussy." Bannon wanted to make the election about HRC's character, emails, and to attack the media and the ..Mexicans.

Obviously this book is not for those who'd give a pass to Trump if he shot someone in the middle of Manhattan.  Woodward confirms what we already knew about Trump. Anyone who has observed DT can see his character, ignorance, illiteracy, bad temperament, and how unqualified he is.

Here's a nice short interview on PBS...

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Epicurus said:

Woodward confirms what we already knew about Trump. Anyone who has observed DT can see his character, ignorance, illiteracy, bad temperament, and how unqualified he is.

And that is something we knew about Trump even before he ran for office. Somehow, a lot of people chose not to believe what was already common knowledge.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mind if we disagree on policy or ideology, but not seeing the obvious is disturbing and frustrating. We in New York (and not only) knew Trump and, unless you were connected to him, we found him a disgusting person. He was known as a grafter, a con man. But, get a major party label after your name and things change.

1 hour ago, AchillesHeel said:

I don't know that I agree with this but very often it is an argument used to explain why you end having to choose between a Hillary and a Donald....and that one of the 2 has to be right (good, capable) and the other must be wrong (evil, unfit).

You don't have to have 2 extremes in order to make a choice. I have fun talking to libertarians and environmentalists nowadays who voted either for Johnson or Stein.  In other words, in addition to the Clinton - Trump choice, there were huge differences in policies. So, for those who voted Johnson or Stein, congratulations on electing someone who is totally against your principles.  If HRC had been elected, at least we'd have a reality-based approach to foreign policy, environment, science, health care, education, urban development, etc, etc

  • Like it 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, AchillesHeel said:

So from what I understand you're saying that Trump won because people voted for other parties rather than giving up their personal beliefs to join forces against Trump. Do you believe that HRC was entitled to those votes because there was no other option in defeating Trump? You do see how this acts as a polarizing agent making people not want to vote for Hillary and lash out against that sense of arrogance and entitlement?

Well, I was pointing out that those, for example, who care a lot about the environment (Jill Stein/Green party), they had a choice--given the US "polarized" electoral system that either a Dem or Repub is elected)--to get the environmental policies of Trump and the Repubs or the policies of HRC and the Dems.  

And, yes, in my opinion, no one should be elected in position of power that doesn't believe in science.

1 hour ago, Bananas said:

I thought George W Bush would never be beat as the worst president America ever had.  No offence to those who thought he was good.

Yeah, that the last 2 worst prez courtecy of the lunatics in the Repub party.  And, the worst judges for the Supreme Court! (that also makes decisions about your life)

In 2000, if you were voting in FLA you had a choice, Gore-Bush-Nader. (Nader the Green party candidate). By voting for Nader, you elected Bush. So Bush screwed the environment, screwed science [we'd be years ahead had he not killed stem cell research], screwed FEMA (Emergency ..mismanagement during Katrina), screwed the economy (it was 10 years ago when the US market collapsed), gave tax breaks to the very rich and ballooned the deficit. Oh, and he got us into the Iraq war on lies. 

Yes, elections have consequences about politics and values you care about.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 6 months later...

Quoting Orwell doesn't make anything more legitimate. On the contrary, this video shows how how feeble minds see the world in conspiracy and simplistic explanations.

Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery. War is peace.

Let's stick to what we know:

DJT has gotten huge loans from Russian banks.  During the campaign on live TV, "Russians if you're listening.... release crooked Hillary's emails."  While running for prez of the US he was trying to get a deal with Russian gov to build a hotle in Moscow. After elected, his team, including his (our) National Security Advisor (top sec. clearance), Jared, and Don Jr, talked to Russians about lifting sanctions. He bypassed the objections of his Chief of Staff, Sec State, Defense, intel agencies and dealt with Putin, often with no other American official present.

6 of his closest associates (he picked them) have gone to prison, this includes Nat'l Sec. Adviser, his fixer (Stone), his lawyer (Cohen), and his campaign chair (Manafort)....   "Crooked Hillary"???  Sure...     She didn't hire her children and their spouses and gave them top security clearance....

 

If Muller indeed exonerated Trump---by the way the report says the opposite--the report would have been released immediately and read on Fox every 5 minutes.

  • Like it 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quoting Orwell doesn't make anything more legitimate. On the contrary, this video shows how how feeble minds see the world in conspiracy and simplistic explanations.

Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery. War is peace.

Now that you've discredited the video by using words and phrases like conspiracy feeble minds and simplistic explanations, can you for my own education tell me what was untrue in that video.

Quote

DJT has gotten huge loans from Russian banks

Private company, nothing to do with the Russian State. I'm sure he got loans from other banks in the US too despite a history of being declared bankrupt. 

Quote

 During the campaign on live TV, "Russians if you're listening.... release crooked Hillary's emails.

I wonder where wikileaks got hold of them, some say former DNC employee Seth Rich released them and it wasn't the Russians but we'll never know as Seth Rich was killed in a street robbery that went wrong. 

Quote

 After elected, his team, including his (our) National Security Advisor (top sec. clearance), Jared, and Don Jr, talked to Russians about lifting sanctions

Have the sanctions been lifted?

Quote

If Muller indeed exonerated Trump---by the way the report says the opposite--the report would have been released immediately and read on Fox every 5 minutes.

Like the way the Smollett allegations were on CNN every 5 minutes as a symptom of Trumps racist America despite them being false.

 

Seems strange to me that he's perceived as pro Russian, otherwise he'd recognise Crimea as part of Russia. I guess I must be feebleminded and simplistic. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mueller (Müller if you like the umlauts) mulled over what he discovered and said:

  1. I uncovered several illegal acts of a political Mafia

  2. We were unable to prove that the soldiers were carrying out the orders of their Don.

  3. In the US courts the accused is declared guilty or not guilty. Innocence is decided, if ever, by the Eternal.

  4. There is a color of innocence that can be decided here and now.  E.g., running against a bozo (such as our gutter-species president) and being beaten by the Bozo.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If one would look at

https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm

 

0ne would see that unemployment rate was

  1. 3.8% in April 2000

  2. by Oct 2009 it grew to 10%; then it started to diminish.

  3. By November 2018 the rate was 3.7%

  4. By March 2019 it was 3,8%.

 

Reasonable people assume that what one sees at time T is the result of policies that were followed at time T-Δ.

As of now, I have not seen any Trump-lover that can be considered as reasonable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So,can we look at it this way? Bush 43 and the Repubs derailed the economy, and we had the "great recession" of 2008-2010. Then Obama repairs the wreck and sends the economy speeding ahead again. In 2016, DJT jumps on the already moving train and within seconds he claims "his economy is doing better than any other time before"....

Historically, for the last 100+ years, if you wanted to invest money in the market or ride the economy's ups and downs, you'll discover that you'd have made much more money under a Dem admin, and you'd have lost money under Repubs.  [even if you're generous enough to NOT include the Great Depression (under Repub Hoover) in this calculation!!]  Hmmmm

Edited by Epicurus
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.




  • Similar Content

    • By Lazarus
      A record number of Democrats are lining up and declaring themselves as Democratic candidates for the 2020 Presidential Elections in the USA.
      Pete Buttigieg caught my eye the other day in a town hall meeting televised on CNN. I thought he was a well spoken young man, with ideas and values that I agreed with. He needs 65, 000 donors to be invited to the Democrats debate. I would like to see him there, so I donated to his campaign.
         
    • By Lazarus
      This is from BBC:
      Vegan protests: 'Un-Australian' activists arrested, PM Morrison says
      Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison has criticised animal rights activists as "shameful and un-Australian" after dozens were arrested in nationwide protests.
      While - I have to admit - I'm note sure where PM Scott Morrison stands on issues, It looks to me like taking out a page from the Orange Orangutan's (Donald Trump) book. Divide the country in an effort to conquer. Pitch one group of people against another and start creating a condition that is hostile to people sharing values. Probably now is a good time to break up labor unions also?
      It seems that everywhere one turns, it's a right wing full frontal attack to the voice of the people.
    • By PastMember
      Inexplicable decision
      Online government portal Diavgeia turned out to be one of the most important reforms carried out in Greece over the last few years. A decision by today?s leftist-led coalition government to dismantle the transparency initiative program was based on absolutely unfounded excuses and represents a major setback. The government portal allowed citizens to have access to decisions regarding state recruitments and procurements, the expenditure of public organizations and other interesting information.
      In the absence of Diavgeia, what is more than certain is that the corrupt and the wasteful will once more be able to hide behind a veil of nontransparency. The removal of the transparency portal was no doubt an incomprehensible decision on the part of the SYRIZA-Independent Greeks administration.
      http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite3_1_06/05/2015_549741
    • By Bashibozuk
      Trump is not the problem; the DNC (i.e. the Democratic National Committee) is.
      When Carter (screwed by OPEC, unpopular thanks to OPEC, and sabotaged by his own party) was defeated in 1978, the Democratic National Committee decided that the plebe that voted Democratic could not be trusted to choose electable candidates. In the future the DNC would choose its own super-delegates who would enable the choice of good candidates.
      In 2016 those who read newspapers read that:
      The super-delegates were 15% of the total. Therefore, if the elected delegates were Sanders 49% and Clinton 36% of the total, Mrs Clinton would have been the Democratic candidate.
      At the New Hampshire’s primary Sanders received 60.4% of the poll vote and Mrs Clinton 38%, of the poll vote. Sanders had 15 voted delegates; Mrs Clinton had 9 elected delegates and 6 superdelegates. Is that possible that the the D in DNC stands for Double-dealing?
      On October 30, 2016, the DNC interim chair Donna Brazile was fired from her position as a political commentator at CNN over e-mail leaks suggesting she had improperly supplied Hillary Clinton’s campaign with advance knowledge of debate-questions.
      Let us move beyond the lady Macbeth aspects of the DNC. How idiotic must one be in order to manage to lose an election against a pathetic bimbo? This demands great talent. Examples:
      α) Trump brags that he will bring the factories back to the USA; the DP claims that the new factories will use robots and the unemployed will remain unemployed.
      β) The DP is all for clean energy. What about the coal-miners in WV? Under the DP plan they will live longer because of cancer avoidance. Moreover, since they will have less money, their life-span will feel even longer.
      γ) In the US the members of every group live, on the average, longer than the previous generation. With one exception; low-class whites. To the best of my limited knowledge, the DP has no plan for them.
      My impression is that Trump is not the problem. The doctor Frankenstein that created him is.
       
    • By Epicurus
      We had another mass shooting in the US, this time in Las Vegas, the deadliest of its kind, until the next one of course. Our right to be safe is trampled by the right for someone to own military-grade weapons.
      We had hoped that after the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre, Congress would act to pass some federal gun safety laws. Nothing!  The victims' stories and pictures in Vegas are beginning to circulate now. I'll leave you with the images of the children of Sandy Hook as a horrific reminder that how a political party and its leaders are essentially in the pocket of the gun lobby.
    • By Tzatziki
      Pentagon Officials Allowed Workers to Use Government Credit Cards at Strip Clubs
       

       
      The initial 2015 audit discovered that workers spent nearly $100,000 at various strip clubs and related adult-oriented establishments, which kinda sounds like nothing when compared with the estimated $1 million spent at casinos. As for how exactly such charges are allowed to exist, the report's findings suggest that Defense Travel Management Office officials and DoD management did not properly explain how the travel cards should be used. Furthermore, DoD officials were not adequately trained on how to discipline those found to have misused the cards. For the complete rundown, read the full report right here.
    • By Tzatziki
      Thoughts? I think some form of campaign finance reform should be seriously considered.
    • By Dutch Eagle
      Yesterday the draw was made for the Copa America that will be held from June 3rd till June 26th in honour of the 100th anniversary of the South American Football Association CONMEBOL.
      16 countries will compete. Chicago and Boston will be amongst the venues.
      Anyone of you guys living up there intentions to watch a game?
    • By Koro
      The British parliamentary election is only a week away now and it looks like it will certainly be a hung parliament. Hard to predict what will happen, but we could end up with some sort of rainbow coalition of miss matched parties. What is your guys thoughts on this?
  • Popular Topics Now

  • Tell a friend

    Love Phantis Forums? Tell a friend!
×
×
  • Create New...