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And, then this magic box.. fixes everything needs fixing.  So the con-artist in chief, tells the cult members that he, only him, has the magic box. You have a problem with immigration, I will fix

Let Trump do his thing. He knows business better than anyone else. He has done more in 4 days than that bozo in 8 years

I said, As to the dance around the issues, some people are conservative first. The rest is finding ways to attack their opponents. If you are a conservative, you are religious; you have archaic ideas

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It's way past midnight, and I'm watching the Senate debate a horrendous tax bill. Even conservative think tanks acknowledge it's a big give-away to the wealthy. Those (the majority of taxpayers) who make under $70/year will see taxes go up. This bill is very unpopular and the GOP is trying to cram this through with little debate and, most importantly, without time for the Senators to know exactly what's in the bill. 

This will add to the deficit but no worries, cuts in Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security are coming in order to reduce the deficit.

I'm sorry but this is a new low for the conservatives.

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Too many people don't really understand government and how it works. They vote for a party that is for the interests of big business and the very wealthy. They voted for a president because the other candidate was not liked and she had some "secret" emails... Many voters don't think that electing a president and members of Congress greatly impacts their daily lives and their future, from the environment, to consumer protection, to retirement, to education and health care.

These days I see so many people willing to camp outside stores to get a sale deal for few bucks but aren't willing to spend 10' voting.

@Bananas you ask, "what gives?"...  In 1832, Britain passed the Great Reform Act that allowed the common people to vote. The conservatives were panicking because they had been openly advocating for the aristocracy, banks, big business, and generally for nothing to benefit the lower classes. However, they figured out that their party could forge an alliance with the working class. How? They'd would sell patriotism, law and order, xenophobia, identity politics, religion, morality, and a ..great Britain!  Today the cons are in power.

Sounds familiar?...

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  • 3 weeks later...

I didn't vote for Trump, not really a fan of his antics (although I WOULD have voted for him over Hillary if there weren't a 3rd option)...but I'm dancing a jig that the tax plan passed....I'll be saving a bundle.

The stock market is through the roof...that pads my pockets as well.

All in all, on a personal level, I'm happy with his presidency so far.  It's had a positive financial impact on me and most people I know, and hasn't had a negative impact in any aspect of my everyday life.  

Some high tax states are gonna have to scramble to figure out how to compensate for some aspects of the tax plan, but overall I see most negative attitudes toward the tax plan as a result of not fully understanding the complexities of it all (totally understandable) and also just the product of gross misinformation that's out there combined with the lack of willingness of the general public to actually read and learn for themselves rather than be spoon fed their opinions by the talking heads.

Also, if the estimates of over $3 Trillion being repatriated to US is close to true (depends on who you listen to...some people say it's bull while others consider it low) it can only benefit the country.  

What parts of the tax plan is everyone here unhappy with?

On the tax plan subject, I thought this was a funny little video:

It shows 2 things. 1. how ignorant most people with strong opinions are and 2. On any issue, you can always ask questions or show statistics to lean whichever way you want.

Edited by BostonThanatos
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Don't be confused by the small arguments. Look at the outcomes. The middle class has not gained any ground since the 1970s. Wealth concentration to the very top is highest since the gilded age. Economic advancement for poor and middle class is worse in the US compared to most advanced western countries. [check the Economist and Wall Street Journal on this]

Unemployment is very low as it was under Obama; some economists call it "full-employment" but wages have not advanced (adjusted for inflation in decades).  Corporations are sitting on trillions of cash.

A slice of middle class will see marginally lower taxes that will expire, whereas the corporations breaks are permanent; same for very wealthy individuals, investors, pass-through, etc.

Taxes should be used to buy.. civilization and the good life. It's what you get for paying taxes. Not saying all taxes are good or as used prudently, but goodies cost money. Paying less taxes may seem good but not having health insurance, or pay high tuition rates, living in toxic environment, etc, cost you a lot more.

So, outcomes? Compared to major countries, people in the US are not as healthy, or educated, or relaxed (more stress due to weak social safety net, higher crime, etc), don't live as long, and don't have as many chances to opportunity.  But they are freer, right?...

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4 hours ago, athinaios said:

The middle class has not gained any ground since the 1970s.

Corporations are sitting on trillions of cash.

This can't be sustainable, eventually something is gonna give no? 

Health care should be a no brainer for such a rich country, people should not be denied medical assistance or treatment because it is not within their means...this should be something all citizens can rally around but its not the case. People are imbeciles, shame on all and any who are against this and the ones who actively work against this....I would say what I really feel but get F'd you soulless parasites.

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On 02/12/2017 at 11:53 AM, athinaios said:

These days I see so many people willing to camp outside stores to get a sale deal for few bucks but aren't willing to spend 10' voting.

There are many reasons for people not voting, and low turnouts are not good for the layman. Ideally, elections should be national holidays, and voting should be mandatory with penalties for those who don't. But monkeys have a greater chance of flying out my brown eye.

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5 hours ago, Tzatziki said:

This can't be sustainable, eventually something is gonna give no? 

Health care should be a no brainer for such a rich country, people should not be denied medical assistance or treatment because it is not within their means...this should be something all citizens can rally around but its not the case. People are imbeciles, shame on all and any who are against this and the ones who actively work against this....I would say what I really feel but get F'd you soulless parasites.

I don't know what's sustainable if the time frame isn't specified, but the US is the only advanced country with such weird notions about the role of government. Of course it's tribalism and a particular major political party has succeeded in framing the lack of universal health care as ..freedom. Who needs a social safety net, public libraries, parks, good infrastructure, accessible good education, etc,? It's the middle and lower classes. These benefits of citizenship must be paid for and they could easily be if the US rearranges its spending and taxing priorities.  I pay taxes for the local schools (which by the way are great) while not having any kids in the system. I've paid health care premiums for ever and only recently I had a medical emergency (I'm OK) when my insurance paid for it.  When I become very wealthy, my taxes--in absolute numbers and as a % of income--should definitively go up.... unless they leave me more money to create jobs (haha).

The great example of people voting against their interests is a morally corrupt party that convinces voters they're free when they actually lack good opportunity and forgo possibilities for a better life. I'm talking, of course, about the Torry party in 19th c. Britain.... (what else?)

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For the most part I think you are right, but concerning the parties in the US, yes they are not the same, but I feel that they serve the same "masters" overall. The people do get tossed a bone I think generally with the democrats, but when someone like Bernie came along and wanted to make drastic changes, his own party was working against him...Maybe it was ppl who were more loyal to pant suite lady than they were to the party, but that is totally a stab in the back to the voters and the process.

 

Also speaking of the Clintons, Bill even though everyone loved him did some dirt too, he was responsible for some regressive policies. I think regarding incarceration rates and maybe privatization of correctional facilities, but im not 100% sure I will need to check on this.

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Most politicians who want to be elected to high office have to play to the public sentiment. They can be honest like Bernie who said that democratic socialism is the best way to the good (better) life in the US. It wasn't the Dem party establishment but the voters who rejected his message. And those primary voters were even more to the left than the generic Dem or mainstream Repub.  Now, many people do change their minds over time, not during the heat of a campaign. Dems will be proposing universal health care in the next prez election. But, there's a fear among the population of socialism, even though there's a clean majority that favors its basic tenets. Same with Obamacare, where the majority was against it, but if you asked them separate about the particular provisions, they loved them.

And if you were to be in politics, what would you say?.... Also, would you try to get elected and do 10% to help people's lives or be marginalized and do nothing for them?  This when the other party would actually harm middle class interests.

No matter who Hillary Clinton was, I'd bet that she would be raising her own taxes right now to pay for Obamacare, not what Trump did to benefit himself and the super wealthy.

Elections have consequences....

 

Here's a review of the first year under the current so-called president from The Atlantic

 

PS> The top two Repub Congressional leaders said they want to end food stamps, Medicaid, and all sorts of "entitlements" (for the poor not the rich of course).

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14 minutes ago, athinaios said:

 It wasn't the Dem party establishment but the voters who rejected his message.

You points are all excellent and I think you right except for Bernie possibly. I'm sure you are considerably more informed than me, so I'm not going to sit here and say you're def wrong...but from the little I know and saw, Hilary could not sell a free Jay-z and Beyonce rally/concert, while Bernie was getting big attendance numbers.

Maybe this means nothing when the ballots are counted but lastly is the DNC supposed to and is it right for them to support one candidate vs another, or do you think the voters should decide themselves? I'm not aware of the leaked emails showing that there was any blatant sabotage, but there were def people in the emails talking about planting stories discrediting Sanders and a clear push for Hilary...what do you make of the thing?

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On 12/30/2017 at 11:25 PM, Tzatziki said:

..., or do you think the voters should decide themselves? I'm not aware of the leaked emails showing that there was any blatant sabotage, but there were def people in the emails talking about planting stories discrediting Sanders and a clear push for Hilary...what do you make of the thing?

The two major pol parties lost nomination control in the 1970s and 80s when they opened up the nomination process to the public. Ever since, party leadership favors the candidate it thinks will be the stronger in the general elections, because this is really what they care about the most. The Dem party establishment of course wanted HRC and not a ..socialist independent (Bernie was not a Dem before the primaries) from a small state (Vermont).  Looking back, I think most would agree Bernie could have beaten Trump, rather easily.  Of course, it wasn't clear that Trump would have been the nominee when the primaries began...

The Russians favored Trump and Wiki Leaks (in collusion with Russia) leaked damaging info on Dems and HRC. This steady drip eroded her credibility to the point that a ..stadium full of Dems (less than 100,000* combined in 3 states) decided to stay home on election day. The rest is history as they say...

 

*an incredibly small number of voters given the 139 million who voted.  HRC got 66 million and DT 63.

 

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On 1/3/2018 at 1:58 PM, tantra129 said:

the ceo's have taken control of the political system. point final.

 

the gaps between the rich and the poor will only deepen. 

it is not conceivable what you can see in certain parts of the most advanced country in the world.

some places are more dangerous than the most uncivilized places on earth.

if that is not evidence enough for people to see through the blinders they are wearing, then what is?

under similar situations, bigger empires have crumbled before. even though i truly believe, koutsa, strava we will prevail, and the outcome will be a better tomorrow. 

 

failure is the ultimate teacher

And then if the people turn to violence they are labelled with all manner of derogatory terms.  Unfortunately, the protests outside Wall St during the GFC debacle were weak.  I'm not saying they needed to be violent but they definitely should have been more vocal and longer lasting.  A slogan one of the protesters held summed it up aptly "Don't worry, the French Aristocracy didn't see it coming either". :wink:

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There are too many people who have worked for Trump in his campaign and later the White House who have said he's childish, ignorant, probably mentally unstable, and generally not qualified to be president. Of course, his defenders would say it's politics, but look how many people in very high positions have left after very brief time. Apparently he likes to fire people when his policies or ideas don't pan out. But let's not forget that he hired those "incompetent and mean" people to begin with.

DJT: .. Actually, throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart. Crooked Hillary Clinton also played these cards very hard and, as everyone knows, went down in flames. I went from VERY successful businessman, to top T.V. Star... I think that would qualify as not smart, but genius....and a very stable genius at that!

Like, nothing screams stable when you tweet in the middle of the night about "sloppy Joe," "little Marco," "lyin' Ted" and all the other childish insults...

This is how children drink water (2 hands) President-Trump-Touts-Foreign-Policy-Acc

The person who said would "drain the swamp" and hire the best, most terrific people!

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  • 4 weeks later...
19 hours ago, tantra129 said:

Beautiful Clean Coal !!!!!

We got LOTS of it down under.  And according to all the advertisements (or is it propaganda) from the coal companies, yeah man, it's pretty clean.  Australia, good at digging stuff out of the ground, not much else.

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9 hours ago, tantra129 said:

i'm wondering if we can build a wall made of frozen molson up here

Best idea I've heard in a long time! :applause-597229:One little modification (maybe). Drink the Molson, build the wall with piss. :beer-817053:

We're really screwed.... It's not just the orangutan. Both bodies of Congress (controlled by the Republicans) are complicit in this savage dismemberment of Democracy, our Judicial and the US Constitution.

Dark times are coming. :vampire:

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23 hours ago, Bananas said:

We got LOTS of it down under.  And according to all the advertisements (or is it propaganda) from the coal companies, yeah man, it's pretty clean.  Australia, good at digging stuff out of the ground, not much else.

Something to read, something that could get us thinking:

Dream Coal: Clean coal is more of an idea than a reality, and many scientists doubt it will ever become an effective countermeasure to the emission of carbon dioxide from fossil fuel combustion. -- From Snopes, a project that begun in 1994 as an expression of his interest in researching urban legends that has since grown into the oldest and largest fact-checking site on the Internet.

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What little I do know of clean coal indicates it's a pipe dream.  Google "clean coal power plant over budget" to get an idea.

Read here http://reneweconomy.com.au/flagship-clean-coal-project-abandoned-despite-10bn-investment-84327/ 

A snippet from the article.

The 582-megawatt plant, initially projected to cost $US1.8 billion, has so far run up a bill of over $US7.5 billion ($A10 billion) in construction and engineering expenses. In comparison, a typical 700-megawatt natural gas plant would have cost roughly $US700 million to build.

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It's draining living in the time of Trump. Really! For somebody living in the USA and used to following political life and paying attention to his elected officials, it's like a black hole sucking you down. Can't escape it and that sinking feeling just adds to the agony.

Here's from CNN:

52 major news stories. 31 days. One month in Trump's Washington.

President Donald Trump demonstrated a unique ability during his first year: He can bend time. Never before have more twists and turns been packed into each day of a presidency. 

Read the story

Anybody have any good ideas of how to "drain the swamp"?

 

 

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And this is the other bozo, the Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, touting their tax cuts: a full $1.50 a week. Paul Ryan received $500,000 in campaign contributions from the Koch brothers after passing the tax reform bill. Wells Fargo, fresh off of defrauding millions of Americans, gets $3.4 billion. An extra $1.50 a week should be good enough, right?

DVIqwsCU8AAw1SF.jpg

Following public condemnation, he deleted his tweet.

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Republicans are morally corrupt, no matter how you slice it.

But many Americans like that secretary voted for Trump, because, heck, he'll build a wall, bring back jobs, drain the pool, stand during the national anthem, and generally make America great again!

I can't fathom how so many people have been duped by Trump. His lies are so obvious and he's bullshitting all his life.

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