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Friends,

It's been a week since the US general election, and a new page in American politics has started. Let's put the other thread to rest, because it escalated into personal attacks, so let's respectfully discuss the new president's tenure and related matters here. 

Let's remind ourselves that the point of this forum is to welcome a diversity of people and ideas, and to have a good time, even when we disagree with others; and, it'll be fun, because we'll be having a civilized discussion, right?...

So, president-elect Trump....  We'll be watching but who can say what he'll actually do? How do you judge his first moves and statements?

 

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And, then this magic box.. fixes everything needs fixing.  So the con-artist in chief, tells the cult members that he, only him, has the magic box. You have a problem with immigration, I will fix

Let Trump do his thing. He knows business better than anyone else. He has done more in 4 days than that bozo in 8 years

I said, As to the dance around the issues, some people are conservative first. The rest is finding ways to attack their opponents. If you are a conservative, you are religious; you have archaic ideas

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His acceptance speech was really graceful, and he wants to unify the US. That is a really good start from a logical point of view, however it is a softening of his pre-election rhetoric.  The softening is not a bad thing. Running a country is very different to running a business deal. But you can see the parallels already in Trump's early statements and actions. He promised a lot to appeal to a certain part of the electorate, that was just his starting point to close the deal (winning the election). Then he tends to renegotiate from a position of strength = his policies/words not inline with his rhetoric.

For the sake of the world Trump needs to be a success. I just hope he has more of a plan than the UK's brexiters.  Nearly six months later, no tangible plan, just a bunch of buffoons contradicting themselves and running into brick wall after brick wall. 

Edited by King_Katsouranis
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I've been saying that Trump has been making things up as he goes. He's a great b.s artist who tells people what they want to hear, but he's also a superb con artist in that he sells you his polished turd. That's his strength, as a candidate and as a salesman of his business. He's been selling crap for gold. Anywho....

In his last speech before the election he said, "drain the swamp." Then on Sunday he gives and interview (60 Minutes TV magazine) and when asked about how come his transition team and possible appointees are lobbyists, so he said something like, that's the people I can find....

Anyway, I'm willing to give him a chance and judge him on Jan. 20th 2017 when his full gov will be in place, and throughout his presidency, but so far the joke is on the people who voted for him. Let's see what he does with his BIG promises and main policy proposals of his campaign.

So, I want to see a WALL, not a puny fense here and there; HR Clinton prosecuted for murdering people in Benghazi, and giving national secrets to enemies of the US, that nasty woman; and deportation of 2-3 million of illegals.  I want to see completely repealing Obamacare and replacing with "something tremendous." I wan to see factories and jobs come back to the US. I want to see how he handles foreign policy and exhibits his superior knowledge than our generals, etc. etc. By the way, so far the State Dept hasn't received a call from Trump's transition team.  Again, he has 2 months before he gets to work, but there are indications how he thinks about government and the people he's choosing to run it.

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I don't agree Amorgos...Australia is extremely right wing..especially the mainstream media outlets.. and their mass followers... who immediately brand any form of opinion as PC bullshit and brand anyone who has a contrary view to mainstream as a radical lefty tree hugger..

the bogan red nick culture rules here today..

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On 11/16/2016 at 9:32 PM, ThrylosG7 said:

Cant Obama give Clinton a presidential pardon before he leaves ?? Also about Preibus I put this in the other topic but it probably belongs here - regarding Trump and his position on Greece - his relationship with the Heritage Foundation and their stance on Macedonia 

 

The president can't pardon ..future convictions. Clinton has not been convicted in a court of law only in the court of public opinion.

Priebus as CoS will do what's best for Trump and the Republican party, and they don't care about Macedonia. I'd worry more about general Flynn, who's pro-Turkish.

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You're right, Gyros. I was thinking of future prosecution. But, yes, the president can pardon for crimes related to specific cases that have not gone to trial yet, like Ford did for Nixon.

However, Obama's office said, after the election, that Clinton had not asked for a pardon nor was the president offered to give one. Obama will probably be the only president in decades not to issue pardons for political associates or supporters.

Of course, after he destroys the republic and turns it into a Muslim theocracy ala ISIS (which he founded as per Trump), he can pardon himself. Sweet!   But he better hurry up.... I think this will happen between xmas and new year's when the nation is preoccupied with the holidays.

Edited by Hudson
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On 19/11/2016 at 1:14 PM, Amorgos said:

Sheriff, we are talking the same language, for example, Channel 9, 10 and 7 IMO are all lefties - always on the Political Correct train, against Trump, pro gay marriage and making it sound like there is something wrong with been against it and thinking for yourself etc... that is left wing

no....mainstream media is very right wing in australia.

with the exception of a couple of shows...

the anti trump campaign was based on people thinking he was an unstable nut job,....not on being lefty..

gay marriage has 'support' on the basis that to think otherwise is 'openly discriminatory'  even hard core right wingers support gay marriage for that reason...

generally the mainstream here ..media and people are very right of center..

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YES....we will disagree....

May be different in Sydney..

But in Melbourne Herald- Sun ,3AW  Ch.9 and 7....are on the Pauline Hanson spectrum...

perhaps your views are very right wing..and any variation is seen as 'lefty'..

a bit like anyone who is not advocating for all Sudanese to be deported..even the ones born here..is considered a mad lefty and too PC??

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Horrors! What happened to "lock'er up"?!

I heard that the Clinton mafia had a contract on the Trump family. I think that explains the Don's reneging on his promise to prosecute "crooked Hillary."

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As an American (yes, a liberal), I have to say I'm very worried. His conflicts of interest with his business are massive and it's clear he will use the presidency to get rich. We can only hope he backtracks on his more extreme promises and disavow the blatant neo-Nazis and racists who have been emboldened by his victory. The less influence guys like Steve Bannon have the better. But it seems quite clear he has Trump's ear. After all, he led him to a truly stupendous upset win.  And I am very afraid by the way he attacks the press, which is not perfect but a crucial pillar of our democracy.

Greek Americans, what do you think? Any stats on how the community voted?

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More of a moderate, more likely to vote Republican though.  He does scare me, the one thing that I find solace in is that he does tend to flip flop.  I believe all the things he said during the campaign were for the cameras and not how he will actually govern.  I believe he will defer a lot to his administration. The fact that he even had a meeting for Mitt Romney should be encouraging,  especially for such a senior position.

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10 minutes ago, aek66 said:

if trump does those things along with penalizing businesses who brazenly utilize illegals as workers, he'll cement the republican party in a good place, going forward.

Ha! Do you know who uses the undocumented workers?...  It's business owned by Republicans, from farms, to factories, to construction, to meat processing plants, to affluent who use nannies, to landscapers, to ..you name it.

He's now talking about a ..fence. We won't built a wall, nor will he deport more than Obama did. And, he may even legalize a bunch of them.

It took a non-traditional Republican to deliver the presidency to the GOP by running on themes traditionally Dems did.

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I don't think he will be ok if he just deports illegals.  The people that voted for him want factories back, to rip up NAFTA, to rebuild America etc...  Doubling down on illegals is a losers strategy and it doesn't help Jim-Bob who works at Walmart for $9.50 hour.  Trump told him that we will win so much, we will be sick of winning.  Deporting illegals only gives a boner to the KKK.  The rest of America cares about jobs and health care.

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11 hours ago, aek66 said:

new york times exit poll states that 'The Most Important Issue' where trump hammered hillary was over immigration. the disparity between trump voters to hillary voters was 64% x 32%. obviously, this was the most important factor and defining social issue between the two candidates. trump won and hillary lost, clearly this was/is a vital issue to those who voted for trump.

....

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html?_r=1

I don't think you're reading this exit poll correctly.

Only for those who thought imm was the most important issue, Trump won big, but only among those people... Further down, you see that

What should happen to most illegal immigrants working in the U.S.? 60% said :Offer chance to become legal

So, isn't that contradictory to your conclusion, that this issue was the most important social issue?
Trump won on the promise to bring back jobs to the rust belt and because of he (and the right wing media) whipped the conservative base with anti-Hillary prop. This is also shown by the exit poll you cite.
 
 
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21 hours ago, aek66 said:

i disagree. as if hillary proposed cutting jobs and deconstructing america?

i believe the former democratic voters (2008 & 2012) for obama, delivered the presidency to trump and voted for trump due to illegals and other social issues.

new york times exit poll states that 'The Most Important Issue' where trump hammered hillary was over immigration. the disparity between trump voters to hillary voters was 64% x 32%. obviously, this was the most important factor and defining social issue between the two candidates. trump won and hillary lost, clearly this was/is a vital issue to those who voted for trump.

as far as 'Direction of the Country', trumps voters rang in at 69% as 'seriously off track'.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html?_r=1

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/09/fox-news-general-election-exit-poll-summary.html

 

Quote

For more than half of voters (52 percent), the economy is the most important issue facing the country. Far fewer cite terrorism (18 percent), foreign policy (13 percent) and immigration (13 percent).

Like I said, immigration and social issues are loser issues unless you're KKK, an anti-abortion kook, or just a plain gun nut, most people want to have money and be able to get ahead in life.  Deporting Jose and his family won't help me one bit.  

Trump characterized Hillary as establishment and pro Nafta where Trump came into the midwest and started to talk about the empty factories and all the jobs lost and how China and Mexico are laughing at us and taking our jobs away.  There is not an immigration issue in the midwest unless you wear a white hood.  The people were told we would get jobs back and he needs to deliver or they won't come out in 2020 for him.  We better start "winning" in the next 4 years.

Edited by gyros
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@aek66 "i live in the midwest and i didn't know that the kkk was such a huge force in these parts in these times. this is what the white lesbian married to her black wife in nyc says to deflect any critical thinking/review of why her beloved candidate lost. "

Seriously, dude?...:confused:

Most people who supported HRC didn't think or say the Trump voters were racists. But, they correctly identified this: the Trump's coalition included racists/white supremacists. .... if someone's a racist, Trump was their candidate. Right?   You have to deal with this kinda company.

But those east coast libruls were guessing that their "beloved candidate" wouldn't lose to a demagogue who couldn't help those blue collar workers.  The midwest lost jobs aren't lost to immigrants. The factories that moved is the result of capitalism and free trade, a cornerstone of Repub politics. Coal jobs are being replaced by other forms of energy, like natural gas. Trump can't bring those jobs back.  [He's already back pedaling from his con game]

For one thing, these two NYC lesbians don't have to worry about associating with a party or candidate that wants to take the country back to the dark ages. [when was America great? when women and blacks knew their place?]

But, do these lesbians have a reason to worry about their right to marry a person of their choice? Or, to pursue their own happiness without the fear of being sent to "conversion therapy"? Or, to adopt a child? Or, any other woman to worry about reproductive choices?.....  These are not illusions ala "make America great again" but real life concerns!

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10 hours ago, aek66 said:

of course the economy is the most important issue, election after election. illegal immigration wasn't a huge issue in 1932 or 1956 or 1976. i never said immigration and social issues are the main issues, i said those are the issues that the democrats are holding the wrong end of the stick of and propelled trump into office. one can also tie illegal immigration to the economy/wages.

i live in the midwest and i didn't know that the kkk was such a huge force in these parts in these times. this is what the white lesbian married to her black wife in nyc says to deflect any critical thinking/review of why her beloved candidate lost.

people in the midwest don't wear white hoods.

in wisconsin - a traditional liberal, early on a very progressive state...only 54% of hillary voters said illegals should become citizens, while 78% of trump voters said illegals should be deported to the country they came from. 

so everyone in wisconsin wears a white hood and is a card carrying member of the kkk?

 

10 hours ago, aek66 said:

the biggest disparity (those who voted for trump over hillary) was the immigration issue.

 

On 11/26/2016 at 11:32 AM, aek66 said:

i believe the former democratic voters (2008 & 2012) for obama, delivered the presidency to trump and voted for trump due to illegals and other social issues.

Only 13% of all the voters said immigration was an issue and I bet those were either KKK members or people who live on the southern border.  You can read statistics until your face turns blue but if Trump doesn't follow up with his jobs plan, he will be chased out in 4 years.  The two biggest things were Jobs and Health Care.  That's it.  Not going to argue anymore with your obsession over immigration and Mexicans.

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Return to a gold standard is crazy talk.  Yep, right.

As for banks being free to do what they want, I'm cool with that so long as they get zero government assistance and zero government guarantees if they get into trouble.  Something tells me the banks would stick with the current system as whatever it costs them to comply with Dodd-Frank would be less than the cost of paying the returns required to get people to risk putting their money in the bank.

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Allison's comments quoted above are hilarious. It's very easy to advocate an earth shattering change to the economic system of a country, especially when you know it'll never happen. Big changes require lots of forethought.

As for the anti-regulation bent...listen, I get the argument that regulations stifle innovation and can be excessively onerous. It should also not be ignored, however, that a lack of regulation has led to crisis after crisis after crisis - including what's happening to Greece right now.

I see regulations all the time in the Real World, and what makes them a pain in the ass isn't necessarily that they exist - it's the hamfisted way in which governments (AND companies) enact them. Banks are absolutely not blameless here either - their complete refusal to change in any way, shape, or form never ceases to astound me.

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18 hours ago, ELLAS75 said:

Trump and Pence saving jobs from leaving the USA, he still has not even taken office yet and has done so much. The Libies on CNN are left speechless as they know Obama did nothing for the middle class in his 8 years as president, and they know Hillary would have been even worse....

Yeah? Nothing? http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/07/news/economy/obama-15-million-jobs/

 

Pence, btw, is the guy who refused to help Carrier in 2014. Let's keep in mind that Carrier is staying - for now - because of government incentives, not out of the goodness of their hearts. Once the free money dries up, they'll be in Mexico so fast your poncho will spin. This story is especially ironic in several ways:

  • Pence's earlier refusal to help was actually the right choice, although it was likely driven by the fact that any of his vetoes could be overridden by the state legislature
  • Trump and the Republicans want to stop handouts, yet Carrier has historically gotten lots of federal money while at the same time continuing to ship jobs overseas
    • Where did the punishments for leaving the country go? If my punishments at work would involve my being bribed with bigger bonuses, I would also be doing a shitty job.
  • Carrier is still going to ship a net of 1300 jobs out of the state, presumably because Trump's kowtowing wasn't sufficient

This single factory is just a symbol, and a poor one at that. One thousand jobs in a state whose workforce numbers over 6.5 million is not going to help anyone (and, again, is going to cost taxpayers across the country).

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3 hours ago, jvc said:

So Trumps way of keeping jobs from leaving is bribing companies with your tax money....800 hundred are staying but 1300 carrier jobs are leaving??????   How does this solve the problem?  Lol you voted for him.

Not I. Voting is how the government tracks your brain signals.

 

 

2 hours ago, aek66 said:

in carrier's case, it was indiana, not illinois. illinois has seen this tragic opera plenty of times, from caterpillar (jobs to canada...now some canadian jobs stripped from canada and sent to right-to-work indiana), sears and the CME group.

Wait a minute...Indiana and Illinois are different states?? Whoops!

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