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1 minute ago, 1789 said:

America, at it's heart, is country imbued with the frontier spirit of rugged individualism. I think a form of socialism is antithetical to it.

Fully agree.  It's why the U.S. excels in so much.  But they also excel in other things that they shouldn't e.g. racism, gun violence.

And regarding socialism, where do you draw the line.  It's always grey.

If I'm a business man and all I care about is profits, immigration is a good thing for me!  Bring 'em on.  Anti-immigration is actually socialist from a business point of view (the government trying to control things instead of letting them be).  If you want laissez faire go all the way.

I don't know the answer or what is right or best, but my gut feeling has always been that controlled, well thought out co-operation will always win out over uncontrolled capitalism (which doesn't really exist anyway).

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And, then this magic box.. fixes everything needs fixing.  So the con-artist in chief, tells the cult members that he, only him, has the magic box. You have a problem with immigration, I will fix

Let Trump do his thing. He knows business better than anyone else. He has done more in 4 days than that bozo in 8 years

I said, As to the dance around the issues, some people are conservative first. The rest is finding ways to attack their opponents. If you are a conservative, you are religious; you have archaic ideas

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8 minutes ago, 1789 said:

@Bananas

I think we're better off getting rid of copyright protections when it comes to medical products (and possibly beyond). In terms of reducing costs, and retaining freedoms (in this case of ideas), that's something I prefer if I had to choose a more radical alternative.

Again a tricky area.  The reasoning behind it is sound.  Why should I spend million developing something that someone else can then copy immediately.  If I'm not protected, I won't invest, and then everyone loses.  No one benefits.

But, like everything, business finds a way to bend and flex the spirit of the law.  You have situations where companies were trying to patent DNA which is naturally occuring.  Preposterous, and the courts ruled against it, but big business gave it a shot anyway.

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1 hour ago, 1789 said:

@Bananas

I think we're better off getting rid of copyright protections when it comes to medical products 

 

That's a great idea, but do you think it might take money out of R & D?

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7 hours ago, Bananas said:

I don't understand what Americans have against a medical safety net.  It's known that expenditure is approximately triple in the U.S. compared to other OECD nations.  Now, I'm not saying Obamacare is the right way to go (I don't really know much about it) but the gouging and rorting done by the private healthcare companies in the U.S. is almost criminal.  At least, in a moral sense.

There isn't a "whole" when it comes to many issues. I don't think we can say "Americans have something against a medical safety net".... More people are in favor of it. If Hillary's vote count (3 million votes more than Trump) means anything... plus, many others who oppose Obamacare are actually in favor of it if you just tell them what it is (its main elements) but remove the tag "Obamacare".

Big majorities in the US favor Medicare (for senior citizens), veterans' care, Medicaid (for poor), etc. These programs are socialized medicine. Same with Social Security (retirement program) and other social safety net programs.  It's been the Repubs who have been confusing people. They use lies and scare tactics, the same with some members here who keep repeating the same nonsense. They'd have you believe that Obamare is ..socialist :angry-687657: It's not. A socialist approach would be what HRC and Bernie were advocating: universal coverage; like extending Medicare to everyone.

In fact, Obamacare is forcing individuals to buy health insurance from.... (ready for this?) private health insurance companies! And, to be treated in private hospitals insurance companies work with. It's like forcing everyone to buy car insurance. The idea is to spread the risk, and have a pool of money to cover the sick. But for pools to work, everybody has to enroll, not only the sick (or bad drivers).

Oh, and the gov gives financial support to those who can't afford to buy insurance, which money in turn goes to the pockets of private insurers! 

By the way, an additional 6+ million of Americans have signed up for Obamacare since the election! Part of me says, let the Repubs repeal Obamacare and throw 25+ million people out of health care coverage....  Trump said he'd replace this system with "something terrific.":1eye:

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6 hours ago, Tzatziki said:

 

That's a great idea, but do you think it might take money out of R & D?

Maybe.  Or does the money just flow into shareholders pockets ?  Like I said I haven't done the research to know if this is the case.

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11 hours ago, 1789 said:

Teddy Roosevelt doing what men have done since the dawn of man: hunt. One of my most cherished past times. The squeamish here would do well to sleep with a teddy bear tonight.

George Orwell also killed an elephant once. He wrote about it in fact.

Sure. And Thomas Jefferson was black slave owner and fathered children with his slaves. What is your point?

On the contrary you either fail to see that it is imperative that we evolve as a civilization and that would be the only thing the prolongs our existence on this planet.

Life --that of any species-- is not something you terminate for the sport of it. Such action is monstrous.

Of course this disregard and disrespect for life, this arrogance shows in the way that less privileged people are treated. It's the root of racism, the root of slavery, the root of keeping the workforce underpayed, people without healthcare and education.

You might not see the relationship between all of the above. I don't expect that you ever will.

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12 hours ago, Tzatziki said:

Dont know why it reads Ksorkis..  meant to type in.ferno but it wont show.

I-nferno is a banned word around these parts ...

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1 hour ago, JimAdams said:

Sure. And Thomas Jefferson was black slave owner and fathered children with his slaves. What is your point?

On the contrary you either fail to see that it is imperative that we evolve as a civilization and that would be the only thing the prolongs our existence on this planet.

Life --that of any species-- is not something you terminate for the sport of it. Such action is monstrous.

Of course this disregard and disrespect for life, this arrogance shows in the way that less privileged people are treated. It's the root of racism, the root of slavery, the root of keeping the workforce underpayed, people without healthcare and education.

You might not see the relationship between all of the above. I don't expect that you ever will.

Great example you give, but it's in vain. The persons you're trying to reason with aren't able to analyze and synthesize information. How can you make someone change their mind by using reason when they arrive at their conclusion without it?

Teddy Roosevelt's actions were over 100 years ago, and things have changed, including what was appropriate. Women, blacks, imms all "knew their place" back then when America was great! right?

But, the Trumpies are a contemporary phenomenon of excess in bad taste, morals, abuse, and crookedness.

 

donald-eric-trump.jpg

 

Edited by Hudson
Look at those brave cocky hunters who tame wilderness...
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Personally I find this kind of shooting utterly ridiculous. Ridiculous are also these people who like retards pose proudly next to their kills as if they achieved something important or difficult. Anyone with money can join a "safari" hunting group, with guides, riding big trucks, everybody armed with machine guns, and with all the luxuries of the modern world. This is not hunting, it's a massacre.  What's next, hunting by drone?

Having said this, some natural preserves make money by licensing hunts for exotic animals, and the better ones pick only old animals for shooting. They say that controlled killing helps population control and raises needed funds to keep the preserves operating. I don't know how much of this is true; it may very well be. Yet, nothing takes away from the Trumps being assholes.

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5 hours ago, 1789 said:

My point is your wrong. A man takes a selfie with a leopard and alligator... it's monstrous. If only they were more like Clinton aides taking dick pics instead. That's real manly. And arming jihadists hellbent on destruction in Syria and Libya, that's even more liberal and loving.

So let me understand this. Shifting and mangling the conversation worked for Trump, and you think we'll fall for it again?

Sexual kink is on par with the purposeful termination of of close-to-extinct animal species?  Are you guys dickless, ball-less? What is it? It's fine for your furor to "grab them by the pussy" and then you "blush" when you see a horny Democrat?

Hypocrisy in plain site or just 'we-don't-give-a-F***-about-anything-as-long-as-we-clinch-to-power'?

Anybody that takes away (any) life just for the sport of it does not deserve the label 'human' being. An "empty soul" or a "despicable monster"  is the appropriate terms to describe individuals that behave and conduct themselves like Trump's sons.. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Trump can't change; that's his nature. He'll try to run the country as a TV reality show, by Twitting random views on important issues, and by believing he's the best expert on everything. Trump has never been accountable to anyone, and this is a very dangerous thing.

I wonder if our friends here who supported his candidacy will ever admit his shortcomings...

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21 minutes ago, ELLAS75 said:

Meryl Streep the Clinton cheerleader goes off on Trump at the Golden Globe Awards another  Hollywood elite sore loser!

Stop trying to sound like Donald Trump.  You're just a confused Canadian.

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11 hours ago, OlympicHellas said:

You gotta say it is entertaining

There's nothing funny about it. The fact that you consider such a a subject 'entertaining' speaks volumes about your high levels of 'deplorability.' No person with more than 1 gram of functioning brain-power would consider this human disgrace called 'Donald J. Trump" at the position of most powerful person on Earth an 'entertaining' subject. Whether you live in Australia or Tanzania, this guy will screw it up for all. That's no funny matter.

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"Our next president"? Since when?

“Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.” - ever hear that one? Probably not. Only a shallow being pretends not to know what will happen in these upcoming four years. "Get over it" is a term for the frivolous creatures that don't know anything about the Four Freedoms speech by US President Franklin Roosevelt, 

"Get Over it" is what Trump asks you to do, and you repeat it like a little parrot. Brainless, no thinking involved. What's the real word here? DumbF*ck?

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1 hour ago, Pana97 said:

Yeah it was pretty sore, but not as much as Hillary's after election night. 

Obviously your entire being revolves around your a**hole. Sorry I didn't realize that earlier. 

Just like your role model (Trump) you can't carry an intelligent conversation without bringing it down to the gutter. If you really care about your patents and family, go jump off a bridge or something. Just make sure there's water underneath so there's no mess to clean up.

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16 hours ago, tantra129 said:

how can he write tweets about assange and 14 yr old hackers ...are you serious? you think this man is fit to make the decisions he is going to be taking?

I don't think International Relations was a high priority to the sort of person that voted for Trump.  It was always (funnily enough) about hope, and the fact that a vast chunk of U.S. citizens had none with Hillary and figured maybe with Trump they might stop being ignored.  This is what I believe got Trump over the line ultimately.  There are many other factors as well but I think if the economy was doing great someone like Trump would not have had a chance.  Maybe the U.S. has reached a tipping point in terms of wealth disparity and this sort of thing will be the new normal.

It's easy to criticize Trump (there is a lot to criticize!) but to someone who's just trying to scrape a living on minimum wage, they don't give a f**k if Trump is a good statesman or not.  This is their last concern.  They just want some dollars in their pocket.  Maybe this is something Meryl Streep and the cohort of celebrities don't get ?

Everybody knows Trump is a pig, and he's winging it.  This was not hidden in any way.  It's been in plain sight for years and yet he still won.

I find it surprising that there is so much energy spent on trying to show that Trump is unfit (of course he is) for office, when people should be trying to work out how the U.S. itself, as a nation, got to a point where people would vote for someone like Trump.

@Pana97 what brand of Aloe Vera do you recommend ?

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This Russian-Trump connection is comedy gold.  Maybe this report is true, maybe it's not but I always believed Paul Manafort was the smoking gun and he was go between for Trump and Russia.  The funny thing is that Manafort lives in Trump Tower.  I don't ever recall a candidate running for president to go out of their way to be so Pro Russian.  It's one thing to say something once but he went from threatening to leave NATO, to helping Russia in Syria, to say how he admires Putin over and over.  

Yes, the idiots fell for it hook line and sinker.  Something is brewing with this guy and Russia and no matter if he's "President", this isn't Russia.  The CIA operates on its own and him meddling his fingers at the "intelligence" community, is going to hurt.  They will take him down hard.  He's too stupid to realize it.

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I watched Obama's farewell speech tonight. He tried to be a uniter, above partisan politics, and kept saying he has faith in America....  Impressive speech but I think his faith in the goodness of America was cut short by this election. His legacy is to be determined.

Now, the new president is having a press conference tomorrow morning--the first one since before the nomination. What do you think he's going to say?...

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I tell you what he's going to say.... bullshit generalities about making America great again, how he picked some good people, very good people, amazing people, to be in his administration. And that he will replace Obamacare with something tremendous, and how he'll defeat the Muslim terrorists with the help of Russia.

Basically what a 12 year old malcontent with the attention span of 140 characters would say.....

@Bananas what you say about minimum wage and the middle class having more money in their pockets is precisely what DJT will not deliver.  We still have to examine poll data, but let's not jump on the bandwagon the middle class is frustrated and that's why they voted for Trump.

The middle class fared better since 2009, unemployment is lower, 20 million + got health insurance, etc. For a few thousand votes (insignificant amount in this country) in 3 states, the narrative would have been different, something like, Americans chose stability, a qualified leader, and rewarded the party that got them out of the Great Recession, brought troops, home, etc, etc.   And, by the way, HRC beat DJT by 2.9 million ..of Americans.

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24 minutes ago, Hudson said:

The middle class fared better since 2009, unemployment is lower, 20 million + got health insurance, etc. For a few thousand votes (insignificant amount in this country) in 3 states, the narrative would have been different, something like, Americans chose stability, a qualified leader, and rewarded the party that got them out of the Great Recession, brought troops, home, etc, etc.   And, by the way, HRC beat DJT by 2.9 million ..of Americans.

Maybe so but it's their perception that counts.  When Trump came out and said "I'm going to build a wall" I reckon he got a million votes just there, maybe more.  It was crass, it made me actually laugh, but you know what, it was effective.  Hillary had no counter, at least not one that I noticed.

I have mixed feelings about Trump winning.  On the one hand if I had 5 minutes with Hillary I would blast her for losing the election that couldn't be lost.  Seriously, you lost to Trump given your wealth, power, background and knowledge ?  Bizarro world.  But at the same time it says to me how out of touch with reality she and those around her were.  I truly don't think she understands the middle class anymore.

I find it ironic that those loudest with their criticism of Trump are generally those that don't need to work like students or celebrities for whom the prospect of real poverty is something very remote.

As for Trump, if I had 5 minutes with him a year ago and he outlined his general strategy, I would have said he's an idiot.  Goes to show what I know.

The above is just my perception but I feel like the middle class is where Trump really got some votes.  There is the crazy, bible reading, gun toting red necks who will always vote Republican, and that will always be the case.  But Trump needed more than that, and he got it.

Now, time to ride the wave!

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