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EURO 2008: Turkey - Greece

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:tup: :nw: :tup: :nw: WE HAVE MAKE RESERVATIONS FOR THIS PARTY :gr: :gr:

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Euro 2008 Finals Pots are based on last World Cup qlfyg. and this Euro qlfyg.

If England qualifies Portugal move down. If Scotland qualifies, all move one up.

BTW, One Greek paper was saying today that Germans tanked game vs. Czechs so as not to be one of top seeds with Greece, Austria and Switzerland and therefore play one of those teams.

CURRENT POTS For December 2 Euro 2008 draw for next summer

Pot 1: Greece, Austria and Switzerland and Italy

Pot 2: Germany, Netherlands, Croatia, Sweden

Pot 3: (England) Romania, Czech, Poland and Portugal

Pot 4: Spain, France, Russia, Turkey or Norway (or Scotland)

RANKING as of Sept. 2007

Overall Games Points

Pot 1

1 Italy 2.263 19 43

2 Germany 2.750 8 22

3 Netherlands 2.600 20 52

4 Croatia 2.474 19 47

5 Sweden 2.389 18 43

6 England 2.368 19 45

7 Romania 2.250 20 45

8 Czech 2.238 21 47

9 Poland 2.143 21 45

Pot 2

10 Portugal 2.136 22 47

11 Spain 2.053 19 39

12 France 2.053 19 39

13 Greece 2.000 20 40

14 Turkey 2.000 20 40

15 Russia 1.952 21 41

16 Ukraine 1.900 20 38

17 Serbia 1.900 20 38

18 Norway 1.842 19 35

Pot 3

19 Israel 1.842 19 35

20 Denmark 1.800 20 36

21 Switzerland 1.800 10 18

22 Scotland 1.789 19 34

23 Bulgaria 1.737 19 33

24 Ireland 1.632 19 31

25 Slovakia 1.571 21 33

26 Bosnia 1.526 19 29

27 Finland 1.522 23 35

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Hey guys. I hope everyone enjoyed the game because i know i did. I'm so suprised as to how well we played, all the players were class. The sign of a great champion is to come back after a big loss. When Lennox Lewis lost his world to Hasim Rahman in a big shock he won it back in the rematch by knocking him out. Milan lost to Liverpool in a crazy game in constantinople but they got their revenge in Athens. A few years ago Newcastle beat Man Utd 4-0 and later in the season Man Utd got revenge by winning 5-1. The capability of coming back to set the record straight is the sign of a true champion and thats what Greece did.

In terms of the political aspect of the game i think many here have to place the issue into the context of everyones experience. choc13 said that its an old conflict whereas DUDE is still very passionate about beating turkey for reasons other than football. choc13 and crazy have focussed on the applause of a few while DUDE noticed the boos and abuse by the many. the reasons for this are actually quite clear if you consider it. I know from his posts on the Cyprus boards that DUDE is greek cypriot or of greek cypriot origin, whereas choc13 you are from Australia and crazy you are from the US so your experiences with turks are very different from eachothers. In the US greeks seem very insulated from greek international politics and the only real relationship they have with turks is through history books and sport. whereas in australia greeks and turks have replaced much of their greek mentality and identity with an anglo-australian one so greeks and turks go to the same school, become friends and aren't really interested in politics. for greeks in cyprus though the conflict is alive today. they are still suffering at the hands of turks and so yesterdays game was more than just a match for them. constantinople was taken in 1453 so for many here its historical, cyprus was taken in 1974 and those protesters were murdered in 1996 so its a very different experience. in other words Crazy you should try and understand DUDEs views come from wounds that are still alive today and politics is at the heart of sport for him in this respect. even so he hasnt really said anything bad and i have to say i too agree with him about this game in that the result is sweeter as he says because of the political rivalry and also the hostile atmosphere made the acheivements of the players even more remarkable. he's right! some of the worlds top teams would have folded under that kind of pressure but greece did it. bravo to them for being so motivated.

how does everyone think think we will do in austria? i think that anything less than a quater final spot will be disappointing.

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Euro 2008 Finals Pots are based on last World Cup qlfyg. and this Euro qlfyg.

If England qualifies Portugal move down. If Scotland qualifies, all move one up.

BTW, One Greek paper was saying today that Germans tanked game vs. Czechs so as not to be one of top seeds with Greece, Austria and Switzerland and therefore play one of those teams.

CURRENT POTS For December 2 Euro 2008 draw for next summer

Pot 1: Greece, Austria and Switzerland and Italy

Pot 2: Germany, Netherlands, Croatia, Sweden

Pot 3: (England) Romania, Czech, Poland and Portugal

Pot 4: Spain, France, Russia, Turkey or Norway (or Scotland)

RANKING as of Sept. 2007

Overall Games Points

Pot 1

1 Italy 2.263 19 43

2 Germany 2.750 8 22

3 Netherlands 2.600 20 52

4 Croatia 2.474 19 47

5 Sweden 2.389 18 43

6 England 2.368 19 45

7 Romania 2.250 20 45

8 Czech 2.238 21 47

9 Poland 2.143 21 45

Pot 2

10 Portugal 2.136 22 47

11 Spain 2.053 19 39

12 France 2.053 19 39

13 Greece 2.000 20 40

14 Turkey 2.000 20 40

15 Russia 1.952 21 41

16 Ukraine 1.900 20 38

17 Serbia 1.900 20 38

18 Norway 1.842 19 35

Pot 3

19 Israel 1.842 19 35

20 Denmark 1.800 20 36

21 Switzerland 1.800 10 18

22 Scotland 1.789 19 34

23 Bulgaria 1.737 19 33

24 Ireland 1.632 19 31

25 Slovakia 1.571 21 33

26 Bosnia 1.526 19 29

27 Finland 1.522 23 35

wow that is a very hard potential draw. whoever greece get will be very difficult.

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^ You shouldnt worry. Greeks are warriors

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Turkey fans after the match

http://www.goal4replay.net/VideoWatchF.asp...p?ID=1109&Ln=En

Greek fans after the match

http://www.goal4replay.net/VideoWatchF.asp...p?ID=1108&Ln=En

Edited by plato-ny

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They were applauding us hey? "We would have thrown the Greeks into the sea again". Don't be so blinkered and stupid people. This is what they think of us!!!! 10 people were applauding and you're trying to convince us that they were welcoming and wonderful? By throwing us into the sea?

Comments removed. A word of advice. Watch your commentary -- it could get you in trouble

NIKI MES TIN POLI HELLAS-OLE, OLE!!!!

NIKI MES TIN POLI HELLAS-OLE, OLE!!!!

NIKI MES TIN POLI HELLAS-OLE, OLE!!!!

NIKI MES TIN POLI HELLAS-OLE, OLE!!!!

:gr: :gr: :gr:

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In the US greeks seem very insulated from greek international politics and the only real relationship they have with turks is through history books and sport. whereas in australia greeks and turks have replaced much of their greek mentality and identity with an anglo-australian one so greeks and turks go to the same school, become friends and aren't really interested in politics.

You are very wrong about Greek Americans. We are not in any way "insulated" from Greek politics or the international arena. This is a very broad and unfounded generalization. In fact, your entire post -- and many of DUDE's -- are guilty of making a number of very hyperbolic assertions regarding Sport and Greek-Turkish relations, respectively.

This match had absolutely nothing to do with politics. It was a qualifier between two nations for an upcoming competion. Period. The political dimensions were drawn by Turks and Greeks outside of the official scope of the match.

Objectively speaking, the match did not carry with it any special powers; it will not solve the Cyprus dispute, nor will it win us Constantinople, etc., etc. Its function was for qualification to a competition that is strictly bound to the contextual logic of soccer.

This overly fetishized view of soccer is not only inappropriate within the context of the sport, it is also, in terms of defining our culture as a whole, very superficial. Within the proper context I am happy that we won. But I do not need this win to reaffirm the unique and unrivaled accomplishements of Greece and the Greek people.

Good Day! :)

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Euro 2008 Finals Pots are based on last World Cup qlfyg. and this Euro qlfyg.

If England qualifies Portugal move down. If Scotland qualifies, all move one up.

BTW, One Greek paper was saying today that Germans tanked game vs. Czechs so as not to be one of top seeds with Greece, Austria and Switzerland and therefore play one of those teams.

CURRENT POTS For December 2 Euro 2008 draw for next summer

Pot 1: Greece, Austria and Switzerland and Italy

Pot 2: Germany, Netherlands, Croatia, Sweden

Pot 3: (England) Romania, Czech, Poland and Portugal

Pot 4: Spain, France, Russia, Turkey or Norway (or Scotland)

RANKING as of Sept. 2007

Overall Games Points

Pot 1

1 Italy 2.263 19 43

2 Germany 2.750 8 22

3 Netherlands 2.600 20 52

4 Croatia 2.474 19 47

5 Sweden 2.389 18 43

6 England 2.368 19 45

7 Romania 2.250 20 45

8 Czech 2.238 21 47

9 Poland 2.143 21 45

Pot 2

10 Portugal 2.136 22 47

11 Spain 2.053 19 39

12 France 2.053 19 39

13 Greece 2.000 20 40

14 Turkey 2.000 20 40

15 Russia 1.952 21 41

16 Ukraine 1.900 20 38

17 Serbia 1.900 20 38

18 Norway 1.842 19 35

Pot 3

19 Israel 1.842 19 35

20 Denmark 1.800 20 36

21 Switzerland 1.800 10 18

22 Scotland 1.789 19 34

23 Bulgaria 1.737 19 33

24 Ireland 1.632 19 31

25 Slovakia 1.571 21 33

26 Bosnia 1.526 19 29

27 Finland 1.522 23 35

wow that is a very hard potential draw. whoever greece get will be very difficult.
shocking that only qualifying results are considered

you look at France they were in the quarters in EURO and finalists in the WC but are a 4th seed and compare them to most of the #2 and 3 seeds?

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yeah i definitly dont call that applauding....

throw them in the sea again? wow what a great person, i hope a greek fan sleeps with his probably really ugly wife.

as for the idiot who accused Greece of being defensive.....Greece was defensive than why did they have so many opportunities to score??? :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Still very impressed that Greek fans werent harmed

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It doesnt matter what the Tourkoi think of us Ellines, as most Greeks share the same bad sentiments about them... The vlakies posted by Turks on YouTube says more then any politically correct news report ever can...

We're told to 'just ignore them' and to 'concentrate on talking football'. But tell me, how can you just ignore the abuse that they give.. It's so damn personal and it cuts to the bone. Of course we retaliate when these people p*ss on our culture.

FACT: Whether its politics, sport or anything else, Turkey is not a respedcted nation.. That says it all... END OF STORY!

Edited by PAOK_Fan

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I am interested inthe Turks who can recognise good from bad and Greeks who can recognise good from bad...

Discrediting whole nations based on sporadic sightings of behavious even sensibleTurks or sensible Greeks (respectively) would not endorse is not the way people should act.

If not for anything else ... its an oversimplified assuption and it does not honor the person who makes it ...

Now, can you all plase stay onthe subject of the SPORTING win our team brought home and stop mixing it with politics at a level where politics take over and sport isnt anywhere in the picture?

in any case I wont let you guys walk on the verge of the blurry border of going from teasing to insult ...

In this forum, religions, colors, nationalities etc are not to be treated lightly... they are to be respected and all dissagreements are allowed as long as they do not cross the line to become insults! This is clear and this is the only way you should decide if you want to keep posting among us ... and I hope you are able to tell the difference

--

And to make things clear ... Turks boooed THEIR OWN players first and then applauded our NT at the end ...

Not all of them ... sure ... but the ones who recognised that the true winner of that game was us did ... good for them ... as for the rest ... they should grow up ...

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crazy my friend please read what i say before you put me into the turk hating category, I OBSERVED the turkish fans booing, throwing projectiles, and hissing. NOW unless you were at the game you cant say that i am right or wrong, thats what I SAW.

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I know i have made some contreversial posts in the past but i couldnt care less if some one was a TURK or greek, this aside i am so farking happy we won this game my spirits have lifted immensly and i do strongly believe/agree i went into a huge depression after the last embarrasing loss to our arch rivals TURKIYE

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our fans booed the Greek anthem..

our fans did not throw many things on the pitch, though a few bottles and papers were visible (not nearly as the Greek fans in the match on March, sorry about that) :(

our fans booed our players and coach except the Brazilian-born Aurelio.

at the end of the game our fans, though not all a good deal of them, applauded the Greek team and Giannakopoulos after the game speaking to NTV quoted "The atmosphere here was more sporting than the one in Greece".

i was really surprised by our fans, i expected them to make silly gestures overall but excluding the anthem saga which is ongoing for four matches with Greece now, they were fine overall

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crazy you are from the US so your experiences with turks are very different from eachothers. In the US greeks seem very insulated from greek international politics and the only real relationship they have with turks is through history books and sport. whereas in australia greeks and turks have replaced much of their greek mentality and identity with an anglo-australian one so greeks and turks go to the same school, become friends and aren't really interested in politics. for greeks in cyprus though the conflict is alive today. they are still suffering at the hands of turks and so yesterdays game was more than just a match for them. constantinople was taken in 1453 so for many here its historical, cyprus was taken in 1974 and those protesters were murdered in 1996 so its a very different experience. in other words Crazy you should try and understand DUDEs views come from wounds that are still alive today and politics is at the heart of sport for him in this respect. even so he hasnt really said anything bad and i have to say i too agree with him about this game in that the result is sweeter as he says because of the political rivalry and also the hostile atmosphere made the acheivements of the players even more remarkable.

OK,first of just because i live in the USA does not mean that i am "amerikanaki".I moved here 7 years ago,when i was 25,i lived in greece before,i have done my 2 years in the army and i was in a plane going to Imia when the whole helicopter story started.I have been to Cuprys and i have visited Turkey.So you have no real idea what my experience in life is or what i believe.Since this was a topic about a SOCCER GAME you shouldnt know about it since we should not even have to make discusions like that.At some point in your lifes you got to make the seperation between SPORTS and HISTORY and POLITICS.That is the reason i was on DUDEs case.I did not wanted for him or anyone else to start any extreme comments that we get any of you guys in trouble.I am happy because after all we had a good discusion going here,a great result and everyone behaved.Now if i saw 500 people applauding and someone else 150 and that is our only problem,then the hell with it,you guys were right and i was wrong.I prefer to check this topic and see comments from all of us about the game,our win and who will we beat in the EURO 2008 and not,who believes what and who is worse,them or us.I like an honest,stay with the subject,soccer discusion,that is all.

PS.Thank you for the whole paragraph you made for me.I feel special.A little bit off but a good attempt.A- for trying. :tup: :tup: :tup:

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crazy you are from the US so your experiences with turks are very different from eachothers. In the US greeks seem very insulated from greek international politics and the only real relationship they have with turks is through history books and sport. whereas in australia greeks and turks have replaced much of their greek mentality and identity with an anglo-australian one so greeks and turks go to the same school, become friends and aren't really interested in politics. for greeks in cyprus though the conflict is alive today. they are still suffering at the hands of turks and so yesterdays game was more than just a match for them. constantinople was taken in 1453 so for many here its historical, cyprus was taken in 1974 and those protesters were murdered in 1996 so its a very different experience. in other words Crazy you should try and understand DUDEs views come from wounds that are still alive today and politics is at the heart of sport for him in this respect. even so he hasnt really said anything bad and i have to say i too agree with him about this game in that the result is sweeter as he says because of the political rivalry and also the hostile atmosphere made the acheivements of the players even more remarkable.

OK,first of just because i live in the USA does not mean that i am "amerikanaki".I moved here 7 years ago,when i was 25,i lived in greece before,i have done my 2 years in the army and i was in a plane going to Imia when the whole helicopter story started.I have been to Cuprys and i have visited Turkey.So you have no real idea what my experience in life is or what i believe.Since this was a topic about a SOCCER GAME you shouldnt know about it since we should not even have to make discusions like that.At some point in your lifes you got to make the seperation between SPORTS and HISTORY and POLITICS.That is the reason i was on DUDEs case.I did not wanted for him or anyone else to start any extreme comments that we get any of you guys in trouble.I am happy because after all we had a good discusion going here,a great result and everyone behaved.Now if i saw 500 people applauding and someone else 150 and that is our only problem,then the hell with it,you guys were right and i was wrong.I prefer to check this topic and see comments from all of us about the game,our win and who will we beat in the EURO 2008 and not,who believes what and who is worse,them or us.I like an honest,stay with the subject,soccer discusion,that is all.

PS.Thank you for the whole paragraph you made for me.I feel special.A little bit off but a good attempt.A- for trying. :tup: :tup: :tup:

you are misunderstanding me. i agree that politics and sport should be kept seperate on this website so discussions can keep flowing freely. i am not saying that DUDE is right and you are wrong or anything like that. what i am saying is that outlooks on this game are different because of personal experiences. so you are not from the US but from athens... you are still more insulated than a cypriot would be. what is an athenians recent experience with turks? a cypriots though is ongoing today and they are still suffering in many respects. missing relatives, lost houses, stolen land, political aggression and more. so for them this game was more than just a game. what was consisdered a bigger game when olympiakos played galatasary or when famagusta played trabzon? i'm just trying to help you both understand eachother. DUDE should understand why you see things differently and vise versa. the reason it may seem like i was sticking up for him though was because he hasnt actually said anything provocative so it was unfair that you were on his case just because he disagreed that they were applauding. and the fact is the vast majority were not. to some its just a game to others its more than that. giannakopoulos always speaks of it being just a game whereas amanatidis said it was great to get revenge and that scoring against the turks in constantinople was the greatest moment in his life. if the goal was away to norway and had qualified greece would it still be the greatest moment in his life?

i'm only a recent poster here but have been a long time reader and have noticed that a lot of the time people here argue just because they misunderstand eachother. i'm merely trying to spread some harmony :)

at the end of the day we won and are through to a tournament that many traditional big teams like england and italy are struggling to make it to and thats something that we should all rejoice in.

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OK,first of just because i live in the USA does not mean that i am "amerikanaki".

:evil: :evil: "Amerikanakia"???

I really hate this word :) I am not directing this toward you CRAZY, but many people in Greece need to come and meet Greeks in America before they pre-judge them.

It's quite funny, when I am in Greece, I am arrogantly looked down upon as a naive little Amerikanaki; how insulting when I have a MA in Political Science, and am working on a law degree, someone who works at Goodies or Atlantic supermarket as a cashier and spends their time partying every night, refers to me as an Amerikanaki!!!

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to be perfectly honest with you guys, i have to say the turkish werent as hostile as were the greek fans in the karaiskaki match. its not possible to not see that. watch what came flying down on tuncay after his first goal, look at every corner kick in the karaiskaki game. i didn t see anything like that in the turkey game. now if it was 1 or 2 bottles, or somebody booing, some idiot outside the stadium making stupid remarks or whatever etc. is not the issue here. in karaiskaki the atmosphere was alot more hostile. period, we shouldn t deny the facts here.

i am not saying the turkish fans behaved like saints. far from it, to see a group of morons with 1453 t-shirts to me is on par with throwing bottles at tuncay from a morale standpoint BUT on the whole the picture the turks showed me was better. i am just judging from tv pictures and what i heard and read in greek media plus what i heard from turkish fans.

having said that greek fans behaved super in the 2004 game. turkish fans didnt equal the good conduct of the greek fans in the return leg. the infamous swimming reference particularly stands out. perhaps the greek crowd misbahvior was somehow related to that. a payback of some kind i dont know. still it put us in a bad light ans sadly so.

Edited by aekrossoponti

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to be perfectly honest with you guys, i have to say the turkish werent as hostile as were the greek fans in the karaiskaki match. its not possible to not see that. watch what came flying down on tuncay after his first goal, look at every corner kick in the karaiskaki game. i didn t see anything like that in the turkey game. now if it was 1 or 2 bottles, or somebody booing, some idiot outside the stadium making stupid remarks or whatever etc. is not the issue here. in karaiskaki the atmosphere was alot more hostile. period, we shouldn t deny the facts here.

i am not saying the turkish fans behaved like saints. far from it, to see a group of morons with 1453 t-shirts to me is on par with throwing bottles at tuncay from a morale standpoint BUT on the whole the picture the turks showed me was better. i am just judging from tv pictures and what i heard and read in greek media plus what i heard from turkish fans.

having said that greek fans behaved super in the 2004 game. turkish fans didnt equal the good conduct of the greek fans in the return leg. the infamous swimming reference particularly stands out. perhaps the greek crowd misbahvior was somehow related to that. a payback of some kind i dont know. still it put us in a bad light ans sadly so.

You say that the Turkish fans were less hostile.

Is this partly because the team had games moved from Turkey in the recent past and they didn't want to risk having another suspension (in the form of missing home games) happen again?

I realize this happened to Greece but it was for only two game and the games just couldn't be played in Athens. Also Greek players or coaches weren't directly involved in any way.

I have to wonder if there had not been any Turkish suspension in the past if things may have been completely different. Nobody knows for sure.

Just one other question.....did any of the Turkish players or coaches shake hands with the Greek team after the game. I recall seeing some Greek players shaking hands with Turkish players in Athens. I could not tell but it appeared that the Turkish players left the pitch right away.........it would have shown some class if they congratulated the visitors in front of the home crowd. If anyone has any pics of this it would be appreciated.

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OK,first of just because i live in the USA does not mean that i am "amerikanaki".

:evil: :evil: "Amerikanakia"???
My friend,i feel your pain,in a way.My own mother(lives in Greece) called me that once and i freaked the f... out.I told her that i am was going to take her name of my diathiki :D .The funny thing is that one day out of nowhere she called me for money and i was the one craking up and taking revenge. ;) :P :P :D

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