Euro2004

Was sent off in the last game away at Leverkusen. He then threw a tantrum and kicked a cup of water, which soaked someone else nearby. Oh dear!

Why not? He's a proven goalscorer. A real fox in the fox, particularly at small clubs. Levante had a great season but they certainly punched above their weight. There's no reason he can't help them have decent season

The 16 year old son of PAOK manager George Donis, Tasos, has left PAO to sign for Juventus.

They are decent. Mitroglou is being linked with them too

Had he moved to one of the big 4 in Turkey (Trabzonspor being the other) I wouldn't say it was a stupid move. But to move to Samsunspor in the hope that he gets a move to one of the big 4 is dumb. He was wanted by Glasgow Rangers, Everton were rumoured to have been interested. Olympiakos have been admirers for a while. So moving to Samsunspor isn't grat. As you say the Greek league and the Turkish league are similar, so it would be the equivalent of him moving to Levadiakos in Greece. That would be a dumb move too.

His success doesn't surprise me to be honest. The Turkish league is an attractive league to watch. The atmosphere at games is excellent and the teams are positive in their approach, but it's fairly weak overall. Weaker than the Greek league, and that's evident by how the teams fair in Europe. This was a stupid move for him in my opinion. He's at the age where he could have had a shot at one last hurrah. The likes of Everton are desperate for a forward, as if they wouldn't have taken him on loan with an option to buy considering he's so cheap and they just sold Saha. If not, Fulham would have. Why go to a team like Samsunspor? Money perhaps?

I've seen plenty of Kazim Kazim (or Kazim Richards as he's known here in the UK). He's not Olympiakos material. Certainly not better than Mirallas or Fetfatzidis and I prefer Fuster too. He's physically strong and can strike a ball but he'll flop in my opinion. Not because he's a bad player, but just because he won't improve the team, so what's the point? He's also got an attitude problem and was involved in a "sex scandal" not too long ago. For AEK he'd have been a good signing, for PAO and Olymp he's a squad player as far as i'm concerned

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2011...nspires-vellios Seems like such a nice down to earth kid.

the finish was good but the movement was class! Officially within 18 seconds of coming on he scored, but it was merely 8 seconds of real playing time! :tup:

Generally you're right but the exception was Giannakopoulos who was excellent at Bolton and even had a move to Rafa Benitez's Liverpool blocked by Alladyce. Dabizas was superb when he first went, then he went down hill. Kyrgiakos did fairly well despite what the British media will have you believe. Zagorakis was also part of the Leicester team that was making Europe so he wasn't that bad at all. The only real success was Giannakopoulos though

It's a done deal. Interesting signing, hopefully he does well.

I've seen the goal but has anyone actually seen him play a full game? Is he looking sharp or is it just a case of the quality of opposition being poor?

There's a difference between having a good through ball and being a good passer. There's a different range of passing. Busquets is a fantastic short range passer. He can play lovely short inter-changing passes. Steven Gerrard on the other hand doesn't have that in his locker, he's a lovely long-range passer though. Fetfatzidis is a lovely short range passer and has a great through ball, but he'd never play a lovely long range, 60 yard, pass to someone's feet, etc. While Samaras is capable of playing an excellent through-ball (one every few months <_< ) his short range passing is terrible, as was evident yesterday and every time he plays. Every time he gets the ball he tries to run with it, mainly because he has no peripheral vision. When he's required to play quick inter-changing passes he's incapable of it, constantly giving the ball away at key moments when under no pressure

I understand what you're saying re: samaras, but at what point does someone come to the conclusion that, actually he just isn't very good? I mean when he first went to Man City people said "ok he's young, he has a lot to learn". Personally I knew at that point that he might not make it. I wasn't in the group of people that thought he was simply rubbish, and believe me there were many, but I found it unusual that such a young player could be so lazy. I mean if there's one thing that a youngster should have it's hunger! Then Pearce left and Erikssen came in. Erikssen didn't like him so we said "maybe he just needs a mental electroshock". He goes to Celtic, shows some promise, but then goes on a dreadful run. A few people blamed Strachan for dropping him, then Mowberry came in, he dropped him too. Now Lennon, he's dropped him too. Otto dropped him at the major tournaments too. At what point do we draw the line and say he's simply rubbish? Gentleman the Scottish league is terrible. Celtic got KOd by Sion and Rangers by Maribor. Now I know js1000 will argue that they are on a par with Olympiakos and PAO, personally I don't think they are even close but if they are better than I'm giving them credit for than it actually further adds weight to my argument. This is because that would mean he belongs to a good team in a league that is utterly pathetic. Hearts went out to Tottenham after losing the first leg 5-0, ok fair enough I won't criticise them too much for that because Spurs are a potent attacking team. Dundee Utd though went out to Slask Wroclaw! Slask and Maribor are hardly European power-houses! So if he plays for a strong team in a league that weak and he's still flopping what empirical evidence do we have to say that he'd do well in France or Italy? I mean you say he could do well in an upper mid team in Serie A. Upper mid in a league of 20 teams is what, 4th-9th spot? Udinese, Lazio, Roma Juve, Palermo, Fiorentina. The strikers we're talking about are Di Natale, Djibril Cisse, Klose, Totti, Osvaldo, Miccoli, Del Piero, Pinilla, Gilardino, Cerci, Vucinic, Matri, Quagliera, Toni, Amauri, Iaquinta, Borriello. Is he anywhere near their class? The last 5 are bench players btw. Perhaps he could play for a struggling Serie A team, but no higher than that. In England he would be in the Championship. As for Basinas, i guess a lot depends on one's definition of "lazy". Pirlo is not lazy for me either. Ok he's isn't Scott Parker, but he doesn't just stroll around like Samaras does and neither did Basinas. I also beg to differ about Basinas' ability. His ball distribution was superb! Apart from possibly Tsartas I can't think of a better Greek passer than Basinas over the last 10-15 years, and his positional sense was excellent too. Bear in mind we're talking about a player who was in the PAO teams that reached quarters of both the CL and the UEFA Cup as well as winning Euro 2004. He was one of the best players PAO had in one of the best teams PAO has had in the last 20 years. Samaras on the other hand is unproven at every level so comparing the two is insulting to Basinas

To add to that post, Samaras was introduced as a sub tonight against Udinese on 72 mins. He was terrible again. He played misplaced passes at crucial times when under no pressure. When was the last time he had a good game?

He was at Mallorca for 2 years, the first year he was voted Mallorca's foreign player of the year or was 2nd in the voting, something like that. His second year his energy levels dropped. At Pompey he was finished, that's like judging Ronaldinho now. In his first year at Mallorca, his entire career at PAO and with Greece up until 2005/06 he was worked very hard and always wanted the ball. You might not have seen much of him at PAO but surely you remember his performances against Arsenal and Fenerbahce where he ran the show? He dominated the likes of Vieira, which is when Harry Redknapp became a huge fan. Samaras plays for Greece out of necessity. We play 3 up front, none of the strikers you mention can play on the left. Personally I'd give Koutsianikoulis a shot, and I know Irlandos agrees with me, but he had problems with Santos when at PAOK and he wasn't used there so I doubt he'll ever get a real shot with the national team. If Holembas keeps playing the way he did yesterday at left midfield I'd even try him there. Either way, a lack of depth doesn't mean that Samaras is a good player

Basinas most certainly was NOT lazy! At the end of his career he couldn't run as much, but in his PAO, Mallorca, and Euro 2004 days he ran the soles down off his shoes. As for Samaras I can't believe you're still even defending him. When we first started discussing his ability it was a question of opinion, now the argument is clearly settled. Greece NT fans don't like him, Celtic fans hate him, every manager he has ever had has dropped him, etc. http://partner-ad.photobucket.com/albums/c...SPL_18_9_11.mp4 Watch Celtic's goals against Rangers in one of the most hatred-filled derbies in world football. Go to 1.40 mins and 2.45 mins and watch Samaras' reaction to the goals. For the first he's near the penalty spot, for the 2nd he's on the edge of the area. He's either too lazy to even celebrate or completely passion-less. Either way it's unacceptable and it reflects his work-rate and performances in games. This is no longer a matter of opinion mate, he's a flop by anyone's standards

He's not good enough for France or Italy, he'd be a flop there. He doesn't have the natural ability to be a success there, let alone the work rate required. Holland is a stronger league than the Scottish but it's more open so maybe he'd get more joy.

Scored 2 headed goals as Frankfurt beat Dresden 1-4 away. The first was particularly good. http://www.sportdog.gr/article/57476/dibal...ou-gkeka-vinteo

Yeah good to see him enter some form in the build up to the Croatia game

Petsos (who is now at Kaiserslautern, can one of the mods change it please? ) played 90 mins in their 3-1 win over Mainz at the weekend. Fortunis also came on in injury time as a sub

you make some excellent points. Hopefully he's a success but i just don't think he's good enough.

wow that is good, what did cuper say exactly? Your mates at goal.com gave him a 6.5: "Impressive performance from the Greece international who competed well with the Madrid midfield. His passing was fairly reliable and he made some decent challenges." http://www.goal.com/en-gb/match/62948/raci.../player-ratings

Vellios came on in the 62min min for Everton in the cup game at home to WBA. Everton won 2-1 in extra time. Didn't see how he played, but pao123's beloved rating system on goal.com :P was responsible for giving him a 6.5 and commenting: "Replaced Stracqualursi and proved an able target man up front, transforming his side's fortunes with some fine attacking play." Here's an interview too. He seems to have his head in the right place which is great. He has great raw talent so let's hope he works hard to develop it. http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2011...is-for-the-fans

pao123 you're right that players need time to attack but he's a goalkeeper and usually goalkeepers only really struggle to adapt when the style of play is completely different. That is to say, if a Spanish or Italian keeper moves to the Prem he might struggle to adapt to the constant aerial balls into his box. However moving from Italy to Spain isn't such a big culture clash, it's simply a step up in class. The goal he was criticised for was because he was beaten at his near post with a low drive. Of course criticism is premature, but there's no excuse for that at any level in any league. The difference is simply that he'll be under more pressure to perform now so I think he'll be found out. I really hope he makes it but I just don't think he's good enough. Chiotis is better in my opinion because despite being small and also having some issues with aerial balls, he's a match winner. He has numerous inspired games every season where he wins the match for APOEL. Eleftheropoulos' edge may very well be because he's more experienced, but his career has been one long failure really so I would hope Tzorvas does better. @GS, worst case scenario he returns to PAO, he won't drop to Ergotelis level.