EURO 2008: Turkey - Greece

[gcp]

eh americanakia eiste!!

Just kidding, I live in Alabama so I catch grief from both ends :box: I also hold a masters degree in electrical engineering but every time I go back to Thessaloniki some ignorant fool is gonna call me americanaki, as if that'll make things better for us all. Truth is there's one hell of a lot of ignorance to go around, in every nation of this pitiful world of ours, but it hurts me most when it springs forth from my own kind. As Alexander once wisely said "....for an Hellin to act like a barbarian is most egregious because he is expected to know better"

Bottom line, expect the Turks, or whomever else, to act like barbarians, if that's what they are. But what's our excuse? There is non! We act just as badly, if not worst, because of our own nasty disposition and that my friends is a real fact that can not be erased by excuses such as Cyprus in 1974, Poli in 1453, Smyrni in the 20s, and so forth. Such mindless behavior is to our nation's detriment, and to ours of course!

This victory was sweet. Do you want to make it sweeter? Win each and every time you play. Forget about booing, hissing, throwing bottles, and general misbehavior, just WIN! But that's one hell of a lot harder work than simple minded misbehavior....

[gcp]

plato-ny, cute jpeg but you better hope a war never starts between Greece and Turkey. for we stand to loose way more than we'd gain. In an all out conflict we have min chance for a viable victory, the numbers are way stacked against us. Believe me I know.....Snazzy jpegs and pipe dreams are one thing, reality is quite another. Na min ksesalonomaste eh? BTW, pou htan to Greeks are warriors ontan fagame thn tesara stin Athina? H amina mono warriors den htane :rolleyes:

Entaksi, hplaka kalh einai alla ligo realismo parakalw!!

[cyberfish]

I watched the game again yesterday on Mega (It was on after midnight).

With a more clear head, it looked like the two teams were ages apart in quality. Greeks did more crisp passing running first to the ball than I have ever seen from our NT. Everything seemed to fall in place nicely for us, and our good game seemed perfect because the Turkish team was in shambles. This second time around it was even more evident that their players were timid to attack the ball, and their defense had more players out of position than AO Kolopetinitsa.

Great win for us, and we will do well to celebrate in moderation (never mind the displays of cultural prowess out players show in the skyladika). We need these confidence builders, but we should start looking ahead. I don't know how many of you remember that our NT in the past did not qualify for a World Cup because they lost to Malta or Albania.

2004 spoiled me and now I expect my team to be winning Euro and World cups. Games against Turkey, Bosnia, and Norway are small potatoes now; Good stepping stones and bragging badges, but I hope we set our eyes further up.

Going to Euro with a winning attitude is the right way to go, and I hope our NT is going to Euro 08 to defend its title. This team has a lot of potential to do something good next summer. Maybe we can shift our discourse from the pseudo sociopolitical ramifications of this game to how we can beat the best of Europe next summer...

[js1000]

plato-ny, cute jpeg but you better hope a war never starts between Greece and Turkey. for we stand to loose way more than we'd gain. In an all out conflict we have min chance for a viable victory, the numbers are way stacked against us.

greece are in the eu and both countries are nato members, war will never happen.

[Nick99]

plato-ny, cute jpeg but you better hope a war never starts between Greece and Turkey. for we stand to loose way more than we'd gain. In an all out conflict we have min chance for a viable victory, the numbers are way stacked against us. Believe me I know.....Snazzy jpegs and pipe dreams are one thing, reality is quite another. Na min ksesalonomaste eh? BTW, pou htan to Greeks are warriors ontan fagame thn tesara stin Athina? H amina mono warriors den htane  :rolleyes:

Entaksi, hplaka kalh einai alla ligo realismo parakalw!!

There's a big difference between superiority in numbers and superiority in quality. Greece may not have the first but it has the second in spades, especially in the air force.

And what's the significance of having a University degree? As if that can prevent somebody from being an amerikanaki. It's a state of mind, independent of level of education. I've known malakes amerikanakia with PhD's, my friend. Anyway, this to say that it isn't native Greeks that have a monopoly on patriotism, I'd be willing to venture that diaspora Greeks are way more patriotic. Burning Stars and Stripes and Bush effigies does not a Greek patriot make. If anything it harms Greece, by alienating her further from the USA. Leave the anti-Americanism to the Turks, we'll see how it serves them!

I just have to say I'm fed up with the 'elders' of this forum picking on DUDE. I don't think he has said anything wrong, and let the guy celebrate for after all, this was a gigantic victory for all of us, and anybody who thinks a game like this can be entirely free of political implications is completely deluded.

Besides, I have yet to see any of the forum's Turkish visitors complaining. If you ask them, I doubt they will say that they have been offended by any posts.

About Terim's press conference: my God, the man looks completely devastated to the point of being almost incoherent. You'd think he just lost his family in a car wreck or something. I'm glad the first question cleared up the coach's ambiguous comment about the 'offsides mistake'; Terim clarified that he meant it was a mistake by the defender for not running clear of Amanatidis in time, thus keeping the latter onside and poised to make his epic strike, ie. it was not a comment about an officiating mistake.

Last item, somebody mentioned FIFA rankings. As far as I know, another practical use of rankings is tie-breaker in tournaments. Example: in 2004, we were even with Spain in group play (1 win, 1 loss, 1 draw), even in head-to-head (draw), even in goal differential (0), and we advanced by virtue of more goals scored (4 vs. 2). The next tie-breaker I believe would have been ranking and of course Spain would have won that. So as improbable as such a scenario can be, it doesn't hurt to be highly ranked in case all previous tie-breakers fail.

[DUDE]

plato-ny, cute jpeg but you better hope a war never starts between Greece and Turkey. for we stand to loose way more than we'd gain. In an all out conflict we have min chance for a viable victory, the numbers are way stacked against us. Believe me I know.....Snazzy jpegs and pipe dreams are one thing, reality is quite another. Na min ksesalonomaste eh? BTW, pou htan to Greeks are warriors ontan fagame thn tesara stin Athina? H amina mono warriors den htane

[Morphi]

Well done Greece, you deserve to go through...

[Crazy]

I just have to say I'm fed up with the 'elders' of this forum picking on DUDE. I don't think he has said anything wrong, and let the guy celebrate for after all, this was a gigantic victory for all of us, and anybody who thinks a game like this can be entirely free of political implications is completely deluded.

Besides, I have yet to see any of the forum's Turkish visitors complaining. If you ask them, I doubt they will say that they have been offended by any posts.

"Elders"???? :evil: :evil: :D Tell me were you live and i will show u elders. :P :D

All kidding aside,i am not and will not dictate to anybody how to feel or how to think.I am happy as the rest of you for our great win but there are some rules in here that yes,were not broken as bad as other times but still we need to keep our class and be civilized.I am not attacking DUDE,he is one of my boys for god sake,it is just that he can and has in the past become a tiny toony "overenthusiastic" over a SOCCER game and went sideways into politics.He and most of Phantis members have behaved and kept a nice and normal conversation and that is what the "ELDERS"(You are going to pay for it in the future love :P :D )were hoping.As for the second part sorry but i have to talk about myself only,i would not wait for anybody to complain first and then react.I prefer not to give anyone the excuse to complain. ;) I think this matter should be over,DUDE you know you are my boy,the rest of you nothing but love,see u at final phase of EURO 2008 baby :tup: :gr:

[Nick99]

Hahaha. Crazy, good to know no offense was taken, as it was surely not intended.

Btw, you can find me at 123 Fake Street (yet another Simpsons reference).

Amen, good on our boys for the sensational Turkey result and just overall in this very successful qualifying tourney, and we'll see you in the land of Mozart and Toblerone!

Meantime, WCQ starting in the spring, before Euro 2008, as far as I know. Hopefully we can do well in the early matches and keep this momentum for our defense of the European title.

[Nick99]

the battles for the 13 european places for WC 2010 starts in august 2008, after euro 2008.

the drawing for euro world cup qualifying groups will be next month, after euro 2008 qualifying group play is done.

Thanks Aek66.

Whatever draw we get, if we succeed in Aus-Sui, I like our chances for qualifying for 2010.

[gcp]

Nick99,

I am sad to report, and remember I speak from hands on knowledge, that Greece does not have superiority in quality over Turkey in any military area/branch, to include the air force. If a war was to start tomorrow we'd be the looser again, just as it occurred in Cyprus in 74. Greece has a long road to haul if it is to be rendered militarily self sufficient, and somewhat independent. These my friend are the pragmatic keys to military superiority, not talk. And not to mention the oil spickets, but that's for another time. Suffice it to say realism serves best.

"elders" you say? Maybe so (I'll not hold your immaturity against you :-)....thanks Reagan for that fine one liner) but I can still run, lift, and fight circles around most of today's cafeteria frequenting, tsigaraki smoking, ouiskaki drinking malthaki neolea.

Now I agree with you in that one can hold a higher education degree, and still be an americanaki, but your comment takes mine out of context. You know what I meant, no need to expand.

Back to the ethniki, now the going will get tougher so I hope they skip the skiladika and fully concentrate on the task(s) at hand. If so we may have a prayer of a repeat, and further rejoicing.

Just an old man's opinion.....thanks aek66

[Olympiakara10]

Is Sportfive run by Turks? All videos showing the goal except for mine(knock on f'ing wood) have been removed by them. Pathetic. I can bet Turks are reporting all videos.

[Olympiakosthyra7]

Is Sportfive run by Turks? All videos showing the goal except for mine(knock on f'ing wood) have been removed by them. Pathetic. I can bet Turks are reporting all videos.

your video was great with the music and everything.

i would report videos too but knowing that there are more turks than Greeks it is impossible to beat them :LOL: :LOL:

[gcp]

Etsi mpenoun ta gol....oxi san kai mas pou to zalizoume kai telika me to zori bazoume ena. Prosoxi thn apostash tis mpalas apo ton termatofilaka, se kathe gol Emeis apanw tou barame kai elpizoume na tou ksefigi....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmAnRzlYV5M

I don't understand why it is that Brazil can consistently produce such high caliber players and we can't. I'm not complaining mind you because my wife is from Brazil so I get to watch some great soccer whenever we visit her folks. But I don't remember the last time I attended a Greek soccer match, or watched Greek league soccer on TV (just like I can't stand to watch MLS). Other than the Hellenic national team of course, which is a matter of ethnic pride for me. I truly hope we get better and better as we head into the 2008 Euro. Nothing will be sweeter for me than a repeat championship :tup: :tup: :tup: One is allowed to drean right?

[plato-ny]

Read online that Greece and their eventual opponents in Euro 2008 will be playing in only one city and that will be either Berne, Switzerland or Salzburg, Austria.

[Nick99]

plato-ny, cute jpeg but you better hope a war never starts between Greece and Turkey. for we stand to loose way more than we'd gain. In an all out conflict we have min chance for a viable victory, the numbers are way stacked against us. Believe me I know.....Snazzy jpegs and pipe dreams are one thing, reality is quite another. Na min ksesalonomaste eh? BTW, pou htan to Greeks are warriors ontan fagame thn tesara stin Athina? H amina mono warriors den htane  :rolleyes:

Entaksi, hplaka kalh einai alla ligo realismo parakalw!!

i agree with this 100%. good post.

as far as quality, turkey is currently in a consortium of nations helping produce the new f-22, along with producing leopold tanks in turkey.

it's obvious, that turkey looks into the future further ahead (in terms of turkish geo-political interests) than greece. turkey wants to become self-reliant in building it's own arms. how far into the future does the leadership of greece look? the answer is how the money of 5-6 powerful families can be dispersed and further invested.

who appointed the karamanli, venizelo, papandreou, pangalo and mitsotaki families as some type of political revolving monarchy? perhaps these are the captains of 'omada epsilov'...to save the day for hellensim. haha, don't hold your breath...

now, i expect this post to be deleted or moved to the political forum.

also: did anyone also notice venizelo at the bosnia match, sitting next to papoulia, stuffing his mouth with sfoliates?? ahhh, lebevth..

This post is almost completely erroneous, including its agreement with the other post quoted which is really a silly retort to plato's beautiful image.

There is no such consortium, and if it did exist, it would not involve Turkey. Also, the USA does not do consortia, it builds its own planes and maybe maaaaybe licenses other countries to produce parts for said planes.

Turkey probably does the latter under license, but it wouldn't be for F-22 parts because they have no F-22's nor do they intend to purchase any. They are getting F-35's (joint strike fighter) not the same as F-22 (Raptor).

I, for one, am happy that Greece cancelled the Eurofighter order and opted instead for the 52 block F-16 (If I'm not mistaken). I have zero confidence in anything produced by a European consortium for fighter plane manufacturing, that does not include France. Give me anything Dassault produces or Lockheed any day of the week. Btw, if Turkey ever becomes so-called self-reliant in arms production, we've won the war before it even started. lol

Also, for the tank comment, you must mean Leopard, and it is Greece (not Turkey) producing her own Leopard tanks courtesy of ELBO (Elliniki Biomihania Ohimatwn), and from all accounts doing a pretty damn good job of it, while Turkey enjoys its Vietnam-era M tanks and other quasi-obsolete equipment the USA is only so glad to unload on them.

As recently as seven years ago, Germany cancelled a huge order for tanks to Turkey, primarily as a result of the latter's Human Rights record, and presumably due to its antagonistic and provocative behavior to fellow EU nations like Greece.

Btw, what does geo-politics have to do with Turkey's so-called objective at independent arms production? Maybe you meant the fact they are pissing off the Americans so much (and every other major player for that matter) that they'll be on their own to equip their military. OK, I get it now. Good strategy mongoloi!

Also, what's with the all-for-one one-for-all Marxist discourse on dispersing wealth. These people had the brains coupled with the hard work (which granted, in this day and age is hard to come by for some Greeks) to build their companies/dynasties/empires, call them what you want, and accumulate all this wealth, good for them. As far as I know, many of them contribute to several charitable causes like Bill Gates and other titans in the USA. All of this is wealth earned over many many years, and several generations, ie. not overnight by opportunists and thugs like the oligarchs in Russia.

In addition, Karamanli was democratically elected just like Simiti and Andrea before him, and uncle Karamanli before them.

The current Venizelos has no relation to Eleutherios.

Unclear on the Pangalos reference (was there an old politician called Pangalos?).

Who's talking about a revolving door here?

Last pts for gcp: I don't know where your so-called first-hand knowledge comes from (past military service, maybe, or perhaps one of the few Greeks with any direct involvement with Attila 74) whatever the case may be, nobody in their right mind would qualify what happened to Cyprus as a war between Greece and Turkey. Speculation abounds as to why Turkey felt so comfortable to invade, almost certain that no harm would come to them. Regardless, this confidence was not a result of knowing that they would defeat a fully deployed Greek military (in reality, back then in such an operation, they would get their asses handed to them), but rather that they were sure there would be little if any intervention. Each person can draw his own conclusions.

The reason I say 'back then' is because today, such an 'expedition-type' war (and by expedition I mean Greek troops mobilized to land in Cyprus or anywhere else beyond her own shores where there is heavy Turkish military presence), victory, though certain, would not be overnight. Turkey has bridged some of the gap since 1974. This being said, any Turkish invasion anywhere on Greek soil results in total obliteration of the invader. Air support cannot possibly be sustained with Greece's anti-aircraft defenses therefore the invading land forces would be fish in a barrel.

As far as your education comment, absolutely nothing was taken out of context. You clearly implied that by virtue of the level of your education (which sorry to report, in this day and age is not uncommon; it was a huge deal 30 years ago when only a handful of people pursued post-secondary studies, today it's more of a necessity than a feat), you are somehow above being criticized on character by some lowly peasant or butcher in some Greek backwater. Your implication was clear as glass.

Finally, I doubt Reagan said that in his debate with Mondale. Rather something about the latter's lack of experience. You see in North America, the word 'immaturity' is used as an insult or in a condescending manner. Ronny was more civil than that!

I learned my lesson: I should use the 'elders' term in the Amish forum if any exist, likely not since they have no electricity, so strike this comment altogether. It's not a reference to age, but rather to authority. My post was directed at the moderators of the forum who seem to practice their own brand of censorship by coming down on what I and many others think were benign comments by DUDE. Still, glad that nobody was offended, but rather amused.

[aekrossoponti]

As recently as seven years ago, Germany cancelled a huge order for tanks to Turkey, primarily as a result of the latter's Human Rights record, and presumably due to its antagonistic and provocative behavior to fellow EU nations like Greece.

i seriously doubt that turkey behavior towards greece of all nations affects germanys plans. sadly this will never be the case. the tank deal fell thorough solely because of popular opinion in germany i.e. that the tanks will be used against kurdish civilians and the human rights issue you refer to. it was thus considered immoral to sell the tanks and the green/ socialdemocrat govt. gave in. perhaps though a conservative would have sold the tanks. who knows?

Btw, what does geo-politics have to do with Turkey's so-called objective at independent arms production? Maybe you meant the fact they are pissing off the Americans so much (and every other major player for that matter) that they'll be on their own to equip their military. OK, I get it now. Good strategy mongoloi!

the interesting point you raise here to me is the FACT that turky can actually piss off anyone they want simply due to their geo-political position.simply look at hazzle surrounding turkeys entry into the european union. bear in mind that in a referendum, probably every eu country will vote against turkeys entry. then closely follow the arrogant at times even hostile comments and behaviour of turkish officials i.e. concerning cyrus eu entry. still, no one in europe dares to close the door that nobody really wants open. the top eu nations used greece as the scapegoat for decades, vetoeing so all other countrys can still enjoy a good standing with ankara.

now the us instead of having a clear position to the turkish behaviour which as you say pisses them of, urge baghdad to go against the pkk.

sorry for the offtopic...just struck me..

[gcp]

Nick 99, there

[dark_horse]

Ok guys, this is gone too far. No more politics after the match. We have a community forum about these issues. Game is over, the topic will be close.