Olympiakos Appeal

[cyberfish]

Maybe online but in the real world! Trust me on this.

However, I respect your new-found passion and will actively support it with the following report that will be much to your liking -and to the liking of all PAO fans, I believe:

Kalamaria case

Just for the record, I find the info in the report highly likely to be true from a legal point of view. This, of course, is NOT to say that CAS can give the points back to Kalamaria - this is an altogether different story, which is sthing that I 'm not sure everyone has realised.

Thanks GreenTitus, this is a good report (albeit burried in Ethnos which I gather is a PAO-hating entity).

If CAS could decide in favor of Kalamaria because EPO's appeals court has not published their reasoning would be awesome. I wish they could sanction EPO too.

The truth is, I am holding a small basket. I have read several nasty (unrelated) decisions by CAS and FIFA where they have found players and teams responsible for things they could not possibly be (IMO).

So we'll sit tight and hope that after CAS makes their decision Panathinaikos finds themselves in first place till the end. We do have to win all three games ahead too, so I wish we could just focus on that.

BTW, since CAS is taking up the case, it would be worth to look a bit ahead. My understanding is that CAS is the final stop. There is no other court above them that the case could be appealed. Right?

[Tsoglani]

Maybe online but in the real world! Trust me on this.

However, I respect your new-found passion and will actively support it with the following report that will be much to your liking -and to the liking of all PAO fans, I believe:

Kalamaria case

Just for the record, I find the info in the report highly likely to be true from a legal point of view. This, of course, is NOT to say that CAS can give the points back to Kalamaria - this is an altogether different story, which is sthing that I 'm not sure everyone has realised.

Thanks GreenTitus, this is a good report (albeit burried in Ethnos which I gather is a PAO-hating entity).

If CAS could decide in favor of Kalamaria because EPO's appeals court has not published their reasoning would be awesome. I wish they could sanction EPO too.

The truth is, I am holding a small basket. I have read several nasty (unrelated) decisions by CAS and FIFA where they have found players and teams responsible for things they could not possibly be (IMO).

So we'll sit tight and hope that after CAS makes their decision Panathinaikos finds themselves in first place till the end. We do have to win all three games ahead too, so I wish we could just focus on that.

BTW, since CAS is taking up the case, it would be worth to look a bit ahead. My understanding is that CAS is the final stop. There is no other court above them that the case could be appealed. Right?

Yes you are right. There's nothing above CAS.

The only thing is according to Vraimakis that the CAS can only give an desicion which doesnt bind EPO or Superleague to follow.

On the other side as i have read if the CAS forwards its decision to FIFA then FIFA orders the national institution to compile with this desicion.We will see in about 2 weeks according to that information greentitus provided us and to which i am refering in the Fifa issue.

[cyberfish]

Maybe online but in the real world! Trust me on this.

However, I respect your new-found passion and will actively support it with the following report that will be much to your liking -and to the liking of all PAO fans, I believe:

Kalamaria case

Just for the record, I find the info in the report highly likely to be true from a legal point of view. This, of course, is NOT to say that CAS can give the points back to Kalamaria - this is an altogether different story, which is sthing that I 'm not sure everyone has realised.

Thanks GreenTitus, this is a good report (albeit burried in Ethnos which I gather is a PAO-hating entity).

If CAS could decide in favor of Kalamaria because EPO's appeals court has not published their reasoning would be awesome. I wish they could sanction EPO too.

The truth is, I am holding a small basket. I have read several nasty (unrelated) decisions by CAS and FIFA where they have found players and teams responsible for things they could not possibly be (IMO).

So we'll sit tight and hope that after CAS makes their decision Panathinaikos finds themselves in first place till the end. We do have to win all three games ahead too, so I wish we could just focus on that.

BTW, since CAS is taking up the case, it would be worth to look a bit ahead. My understanding is that CAS is the final stop. There is no other court above them that the case could be appealed. Right?

Yes you are right. There's nothing above CAS.

The only thing is according to Vraimakis that the CAS can only give an decision which doesn't bind EPO or Superleague to follow.

On the other side as i have read if the CAS forwards its decision to FIFA then FIFA orders the national institution to compile with this desicion.We will see in about 2 weeks according to that information greentitus provided us and to which i am refering in the Fifa issue.

Thanks, That's what I thought.

I am not sure who Vraimakis is, but to me it seems that since the KAP mentions explicitly that CAS is the highest arbitration body, then it follows that their decisions are binding and EPO does not have a choice. Even if EPO tries any funny business, FIFA can be brought in to eyebrow them into submission. FIFA recognizes CAS and respects their decisions even when FIFA itself does not agree. So whatever the arbitrator decides will be binding and final.

[levendi2000]

The Court of Abortaion for Sport is the highest court for any sport. CAS is what gives authority to any of FIFAs decisions. However CAS also make decisions which FIFA can not do anything about, for instance the ruling of players contracts and player compensation - which FIFA were not too happy about but cant do anything about it.

Recently FIFA have banned Bolivia from playing their World Cup qualifying games at their high altitude home stadium stadium due to player health concerns. However Bolivia have a case to argue and are appealing to CAS who will have the final say during the week.

Bottom line.. FIFA has no say. If CAS says yes.. its yes.. If CAS says no.. its no

FIFA can only give recommendations and opions to CAS and many teams players appeal FIFAs decisions to CAS.

FIFA are a cockroach under the shoe of CAS and EPO, KAP are ants.. CAS can and have crushed many of these insects before to protect clubs and players with unfair rulings.

Olympiakos has a real good chance of losing 3pts..It will be like stealing candy from a baby :ph34r:

[athinaios]

Will they make a decision before the end of the season? I know someone said it'll happen in a few days, but now I'm thinking it may not be a good idea :whistle:

Why?

1. Not good for Panatha to be first with 3 to go. I'm afraid they'll waste another opportunity. :LOL:

2. It'd be so sweeeet to see gavroi celebrating after the last game only to be slapped by a decision and lose the title~! :LOL:

[cyberfish]

Will they make a decision before the end of the season? I know someone said it'll happen in a few days, but now I'm thinking it may not be a good idea :whistle:

Why?

1. Not good for Panatha to be first with 3 to go. I'm afraid they'll waste another opportunity. :LOL:

2. It'd be so sweeeet to see gavroi celebrating after the last game only to be slapped by a decision and lose the title~! :LOL:

Man, your mind works in evil ways :LOL:

PS. in my earlier post, read "browbeat" instead of "eyebrow". :rolleyes: sorry about that..

[PAO_OR_DEATH]

wow, hold the phone!!! these 3 points are still under debate!!

i think I will suffer servere heart problems next game if osfp are stripped of those 3 points!!!

if this does happen, AEk will be second right?? imagine PAO winning and osfp not getting a CL spot

[Tsoglani]

From mpala.gr:

[GreenTitus]

This is what I feared. Unfortunately, the effect of the whole thing on the championship cannot be taken into account in this case - it's just about the points. The irony of the whole thing is that we might be the ones who condemn Kalamaria in that last game of the season and find ourselves between the devil and the deep blue sea: if we win, they loose the right to appeal and if we loose it doesn't matter (to us) whether they appeal or not. EPO works in mysterious ways...

[Tsoglani]

Another rutechange in the issue :unsure:

http://www.sportdog.gr/new/article.aspx?id=61068

Seems that the whole decision of EPO is from today not regular cause the Katastatiko on which EPO was based wasnt official or something like that

[athinaios]

While I was reading this at work, someone (probably and illegal alien) peeped over my shoulder and said,

"Man, I didn't know you were a fan of the MYANMAR football league!!!" :LOL: :LOL:

And then he said, "many people think of MY country as uncivilized, totally corrupt and incompetent.... but, I can't remember where I read this, there is another country is Europe somewhere that behaves like us.... So, we're not all that primitive you see!!!" :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Then he flashed me his badge of justice (as he called it).... ..

.....

..

it was a rusty machette! :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

[Tsoglani]

[Tsoglani]

[levendi2000]

at the end of all this.. CAS will probably put the EPO to shame... it will be an embarassing situation for Greek Soccer.

Olympiakos will no longer be spoonfed by EPO.. you will never see one wrong decision in a game again

[Kolokotronis]

The othe day I read in EXEDRA that Olympiakos had the upper hand at CAS because the issuance of a pass by EPO merely confirmed the players purchase as opposed to being construed as clearance to play. That, to me, is mind boggling. IMO, the players transfer papers and/or contract signifies his purchase, NOT his EPO issued pass.

Additionally, does anybody have any proof that Kalamaria requested confirmation from EPO and/or UEFA/FIFA regarding th players eligibility to play PRIOR to the OSFP match?

[cyberfish]

The othe day I read in EXEDRA that Olympiakos had the upper hand at CAS because the issuance of a pass by EPO merely confirmed the players purchase as opposed to being construed as clearance to play. That, to me, is mind boggling. IMO, the players transfer papers and/or contract signifies his purchase, NOT his EPO issued pass.

Additionally, does anybody have any proof that Kalamaria requested confirmation from EPO and/or UEFA/FIFA regarding th players eligibility to play PRIOR to the OSFP match?

This is an interesting question.

I have read that Kalamaria was aware that some teams were looking to appeal before the game with Olympiakos (Levadiakos was named) and that they *asked* EPO for clarification before using the player. Once they got the ok, they included Wallner in the squad.

Now, the details were sketchy, and it could meant that someone from Kalamaria called an official, or a friend of his at EPO to get the info, in which case there would be no record. Or, it could mean that they wrote, or emailed EPO to inquire, in which case there is a track record.

Everything is so cloudy in the EPO universe :rolleyes:

[cyberfish]

Thinking out loud here:

Come to think of it, I remember reading that in their initial appeal, Olympiakos intended to use an email that supposedly Kalamaria sent to EPO asking about Wallener and whether or not they could use him.

Olympiakos claimed at the time that this email proved that Kalamaria was aware of Wallner's prior participation with two other teams and therefore, in their opinion, this proved malice.

I don't think they used this argument because it's so obviously flawed, but now, it does seem like there was a question emailed to EPO. Now, if Kalamaria has an emailed answer from EPO, why wouldn't they use it in the initial proceedings?

[levendi2000]

Thinking out loud here:

Come to think of it, I remember reading that in their initial appeal, Olympiakos intended to use an email that supposedly Kalamaria sent to EPO asking about Wallener and whether or not they could use him.

Olympiakos claimed at the time that this email proved that Kalamaria was aware of Wallner's prior participation with two other teams and therefore, in their opinion, this proved malice.

I don't think they used this argument because it's so obviously flawed, but now, it does seem like there was a question emailed to EPO. Now, if Kalamaria has an emailed answer from EPO, why wouldn't they use it in the initial proceedings?

good homework cyber..

geez if they didnt get an answer we could be screwed

[Tsoglani]

Interesting article from goalday.gr

Kalamaria@CAS

:nw: :nw: :nw:

[cyberfish]

This morning I heard on ERAsport that EPO's appeals court finally published their official reasoning for the decision.

I still can't find it on the web of course, but it was funny that they did it after I put on my blog an "official EPO ineptitude counter", a java script that counted the days since the decision was made and the time it has taken to publish the reasons :LOL: (it was 30 days yesterday!) Now I have to take it down...

Kalamaria's efforts seem interesting, and I am glad they finally decided to be more aggressive (did they change lawyers?). The appeal of the court's constitution could have a ripple effect on everything the court has decided if it's accepted, but I like their move to use CAS to nullify the original decision due to obvious stonewalling by EPO's court. I am not sure what their chances are of winning this one (which would be a temporary decision anyway), but it will keep the other side's layers busy on another front.

[cyberfish]

Karpetopoulos has an interesting article here about the case:

http://www.sport-fm.gr/article.jsp?id=126667

The first news for us:

"O

[Kolokotronis]

Can someone please tell me how Fytanidis played in the Asteras-AEK match without an EPO pass?

[Genome]

Any new developments?

[Tsoglani]

Any new developments?

http://www.sportdog.gr/new/dog_page.aspx?a...rticle_id=61920

[Euro2004]

I think that the only way to justly solve this problem is: if at the end of the season Olympiakos finish 1st and are up to 3 points clear then they should play a "final" game against whoever finishes 2nd to decide who wins the league. This obviously has to happen before the play-off.

So if it finishes:

Olympiakos 70

AEK 68

PAO 66

Then Olympiakos should play AEK to see who wins the league. If the gavroi finish 4+ points clear though then they shoud just be crowned champs.

The same should happen with Apollon with regards to relegation.

IDEALLY, CAS's appeal should have been dealt with much earlier, but since it hasn't it's a bit late to just deduct Oly 3 points now so that's why I'd go for this method.