Genome Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Here is the latest from SuperSport: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheLegend Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 ...... .... [note: post edited by Moderator. Reason: those who've gotten several yellow & red cards should be especially careful how they conduct themselves here.... This post was deleted as unnecessary roughness!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aekrossoponti Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 interesting development! wallner is part of kalamarias squad for the game against pao. he might even play.. :D http://www.sport-fm.gr/article.jsp?id=127889 i did some research. don t know if anyone has already posted this but i came across the mascherano transfer to liverpool. mascherano played for corinthians, west ham and liverpool in one season. fifa were innfavor of his move to liverpool and the english fa followed the fifa verdict. the interesting question now is whether the english fa could have said no to the mascherano move? a sceond interesting point is wallner being an austrian and thus a eu-citizen. eu-citizen have the freedom to work where they want in the eu and also to negotiate the contracts they want. if this becomes part of the issue, this case could turn into a new bosman.apparently the two similar cases in ireland led fifa to start to rethink there rules to have them more in line with eu laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I think you're right. That's why I said there are cases when civil courts can intervene even if clubs, leagues, etc, have rules, sign contracts, etc. There are certain rights that cannot be signed away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 If CAS upholds the punishment to Kalamaria and the player, I see this becoming another case where courts force FIFA, federations, associations and the such to align their rules with more universal principles. So far, it seems to me that international courts and CAS side on more liberal movement of players (workers). The Bosman case changed the football landscape of Europe overnight, and the very recent Webster decision by CAS are well known. Wallner's case involves restrictions on employment and worker mobillity, so he has a good chance to win eventually.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aekrossoponti Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 wallner could eventually win. unsure whether that will have any implications for the bathmologia though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 It might be harder for EPO or whomever not to respond to the CAS decision by taking the 3 points for Oly because this case has attracted lots of attention outside Greece. For me, however, this shouldn't stop there. Those incompetent or corrupt officials should be purged from the sport. It would be better if Karamanlis, after the dopping scandal, could appoint a commission with people not immediately involved in the sport with the authority to clean all sports in Greece. Geesh, this situtation is not appropriate for the defending European champion. :tdown: It's time that sports fans see beyond their nose (and their club). A healthy, more competitive league is to everyone's benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheLegend Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 for people to ignore a fifa rule doesnt make the league better. he wasnt supposed to play cuz its a law... if the law if unfair doesnt mean you dont have to follow it... lots of laws are unfair and even stupid in the us but does that mean people shouldnt follow them and go unpunished. you keep talking about not looking from it as a fans point of view meanwhile everyone is including you. if you werent a pao fan you really wouldnt care and dont try to play around saying you would cuz you know you wouldnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 for people to ignore a fifa rule doesnt make the league better. he wasnt supposed to play cuz its a law... if the law if unfair doesnt mean you dont have to follow it...I agree. That's why EPO should've done their job in the first place and not give him the green card. They did however, so that means the player was ok'ed to play!if you werent a pao fan you really wouldnt care and dont try to play around saying you would cuz you know you wouldntI'm not a PAO fan and I care!? Even quite a few OSFP fans seem to share our views on this case ...The fact that Walner is going to play vs. PAO means he still has his green card, and if PAO doesn't complain about his participation, then this will make OSFP's cheeks even more red than they already are ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolokotronis Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 for people to ignore a fifa rule doesnt make the league better. he wasnt supposed to play cuz its a law... if the law if unfair doesnt mean you dont have to follow it... lots of laws are unfair and even stupid in the us but does that mean people shouldnt follow them and go unpunished. you keep talking about not looking from it as a fans point of view meanwhile everyone is including you. if you werent a pao fan you really wouldnt care and dont try to play around saying you would cuz you know you wouldnt Stop and think before you post. The reason this matter has reached CAS is because the law is really unclear. there is a good fath dispute as to how interpret the law. It appears that FIFA's AMENDED (in 2008) bylaws permit the player to play as Kalamaria is not in the same association as either of his previous clubs. Furthermore, his "loan" status may or may not be considered a "transfer".Additionally, EPO appears to have given him implicit permission to play with the issuance of his registration paa. And EPO's own bylaws indicate that his registration (and thus permission to play) is valid until revoked. The matter isn't clear cut at all. There's agood chance Wallner didn't violate any laws at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheLegend Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 for people to ignore a fifa rule doesnt make the league better. he wasnt supposed to play cuz its a law... if the law if unfair doesnt mean you dont have to follow it... lots of laws are unfair and even stupid in the us but does that mean people shouldnt follow them and go unpunished. you keep talking about not looking from it as a fans point of view meanwhile everyone is including you. if you werent a pao fan you really wouldnt care and dont try to play around saying you would cuz you know you wouldnt Stop and think before you post. The reason this matter has reached CAS is because the law is really unclear. there is a good fath dispute as to how interpret the law. It appears that FIFA's AMENDED (in 2008) bylaws permit the player to play as Kalamaria is not in the same association as either of his previous clubs. Furthermore, his "loan" status may or may not be considered a "transfer".Additionally, EPO appears to have given him implicit permission to play with the issuance of his registration paa. And EPO's own bylaws indicate that his registration (and thus permission to play) is valid until revoked. The matter isn't clear cut at all. There's agood chance Wallner didn't violate any laws at all. Then why was it said that wallners agent lied about some letter he sent to FIFA? Lieing in court doesnt help if your supposedly innocent. And if the law is unclear why did the portugese team lose 6 points and the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Because maybe the Portuguese misinterpreted the law as well ... Or in the words of the wise Eric Cartman: "I misinterpreted the rules!" :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolokotronis Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 for people to ignore a fifa rule doesnt make the league better. he wasnt supposed to play cuz its a law... if the law if unfair doesnt mean you dont have to follow it... lots of laws are unfair and even stupid in the us but does that mean people shouldnt follow them and go unpunished. you keep talking about not looking from it as a fans point of view meanwhile everyone is including you. if you werent a pao fan you really wouldnt care and dont try to play around saying you would cuz you know you wouldnt Stop and think before you post. The reason this matter has reached CAS is because the law is really unclear. there is a good fath dispute as to how interpret the law. It appears that FIFA's AMENDED (in 2008) bylaws permit the player to play as Kalamaria is not in the same association as either of his previous clubs. Furthermore, his "loan" status may or may not be considered a "transfer".Additionally, EPO appears to have given him implicit permission to play with the issuance of his registration paa. And EPO's own bylaws indicate that his registration (and thus permission to play) is valid until revoked. The matter isn't clear cut at all. There's agood chance Wallner didn't violate any laws at all. Then why was it said that wallners agent lied about some letter he sent to FIFA? Lieing in court doesnt help if your supposedly innocent. And if the law is unclear why did the portugese team lose 6 points and the game? WHAT letter did Wallners agent lie to FIFA about? What proof do you have about that? And how is that relevant as to whether KALAMARIA committed any fraud in procuring the player pass?The players pass is presumptive proof that he's eligible to play. The burden then shifts to EPO to show that KALAMARIA engaged in fraud to procure the pass. Wallner and Kalamaria don't have to prove a thing per EPO's own bylaws. EPO has to prove fraud. And my guess is that its a pretty hard thing to do given that every player transfer involves a player passport as well which includes all that players transfer activity from the age of 12. EPO knew full well how many clubs Wallner had played for and STILL issued his pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolokotronis Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 for people to ignore a fifa rule doesnt make the league better. he wasnt supposed to play cuz its a law... if the law if unfair doesnt mean you dont have to follow it... lots of laws are unfair and even stupid in the us but does that mean people shouldnt follow them and go unpunished. you keep talking about not looking from it as a fans point of view meanwhile everyone is including you. if you werent a pao fan you really wouldnt care and dont try to play around saying you would cuz you know you wouldnt Stop and think before you post. The reason this matter has reached CAS is because the law is really unclear. there is a good fath dispute as to how interpret the law. It appears that FIFA's AMENDED (in 2008) bylaws permit the player to play as Kalamaria is not in the same association as either of his previous clubs. Furthermore, his "loan" status may or may not be considered a "transfer".Additionally, EPO appears to have given him implicit permission to play with the issuance of his registration paa. And EPO's own bylaws indicate that his registration (and thus permission to play) is valid until revoked. The matter isn't clear cut at all. There's agood chance Wallner didn't violate any laws at all. Then why was it said that wallners agent lied about some letter he sent to FIFA? Lieing in court doesnt help if your supposedly innocent. And if the law is unclear why did the portugese team lose 6 points and the game? Maybe because the FACTS in every case are different? Did that thought ever cross your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEKPROTATHLIMA Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 The problem with this is that 96% of OLympiakos fans are seen this case with there red glasses. They are not getting the point!! The point is clear: Kalamaria whent and got Walner they took his papers to EPO and EPO said the guy is "clean" he can play. Here you go Kalamaria here is the guys green card he is ELGIBLE TO PLAY!!!! Two weeks later we have the famous game and Olympiakos looses the game. Olympaikos says that Walner was inelgible to play and we are going to go to EPO and try to win this game on paper.(Which they did) EPO listens to Olympiakos case and says "Olympaikos is right Walner should have not played because Kalamaria is his 3rd team in one season and that is not allowed. Kalamaria you are going to loose 4 points and we are going to give 3 points to Olympiakos." So my question to the Olympiakos fans is" How can a player get his green card to play by EPO and then 2 weeks later he is not allowed to play and why to this day he still has his green card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Exactly ... btw I love how you put that exact percentage on ... 96% :LOL: :tup: superb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheLegend Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 The problem with this is that 96% of OLympiakos fans are seen this case with there red glasses. They are not getting the point!! The point is clear: Kalamaria whent and got Walner they took his papers to EPO and EPO said the guy is "clean" he can play. Here you go Kalamaria here is the guys green card he is ELGIBLE TO PLAY!!!! Two weeks later we have the famous game and Olympiakos looses the game. Olympaikos says that Walner was inelgible to play and we are going to go to EPO and try to win this game on paper.(Which they did) EPO listens to Olympiakos case and says "Olympaikos is right Walner should have not played because Kalamaria is his 3rd team in one season and that is not allowed. Kalamaria you are going to loose 4 points and we are going to give 3 points to Olympiakos." So my question to the Olympiakos fans is" How can a player get his green card to play by EPO and then 2 weeks later he is not allowed to play and why to this day he still has his green card? So epo is wrong not olympiacos... Kalamaria is already out even if they got 4 points back... so what do you want since your supposedly not looking through your own teams POV...Kalamaria should not have played him and if its as you say EPO messed up but the guy still should not have played no matter what... So the points mean nothing... Go for a rematch even though they wouldnt do that cuz it would postponed playoffs and kalamaria is already relegated.... give them money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levendi2000 Posted April 20, 2008 Author Share Posted April 20, 2008 for people to ignore a fifa rule doesnt make the league better. he wasnt supposed to play cuz its a law... if the law if unfair doesnt mean you dont have to follow it...I agree. That's why EPO should've done their job in the first place and not give him the green card. They did however, so that means the player was ok'ed to play!if you werent a pao fan you really wouldnt care and dont try to play around saying you would cuz you know you wouldntI'm not a PAO fan and I care!? Even quite a few OSFP fans seem to share our views on this case ...The fact that Walner is going to play vs. PAO means he still has his green card, and if PAO doesn't complain about his participation, then this will make OSFP's cheeks even more red than they already are ... excellent come back... couldnt agree with you more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYPAO13 Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 wow how important was & is this topic, yet it was mocked by some mod & shut down in the osfp forum & now look at the legs this topic has :tup: Anyhow, will there be a trophy present at the osfp game today?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEKPROTATHLIMA Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 So epo is wrong not olympiacos... Kalamaria is already out even if they got 4 points back... so what do you want since your supposedly not looking through your own teams POV... Kalamaria should not have played him and if its as you say EPO messed up but the guy still should not have played no matter what... So the points mean nothing... Go for a rematch even though they wouldnt do that cuz it would postponed playoffs and kalamaria is already relegated.... give them money? Yes Kalamaria is out even if they get there 4 points back but you guys will not be champions if you loose your 3 points. :rolleyes: How can you seat there and say that Kalamaria should have not played Walner? He got his green card from EPO wich means he is elgible to play!!!! So why Kalamaria can't play him?!! Is like saying Olympiakos gets for example Kovacevic the go to EPO get his green card and then bench him!!! That makes no sence Legend. Look at this case without your red glasses!!! :D Again i am not saying is Olympiakos fault, all i am saying is that EPO FU@#$ IT AWAY.!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheLegend Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 But that doesnt mean anything. Kalamaria still has NO CASE against olympiacos. Only against EPO. But its still a Fifa rule... But if wallner actualy plays against pao so kalamaria can be rebellious (wasnt it stated he cant play for the season?) then they have absolutely no case. If you license is revoked, for whatever reason, and you belive its wrong instead of waiting for your court date you go and drive your still wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 But that's the thing, his "license" hasn't been revoked. He still has his green card! According to the latest news though, he won't play versus PAO today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THYRA13 Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 I am assuming that The Green card you guys are referring to is the so called "deltio". If so then here are my thoughts. EPO can not refuse tin ekdosi deltiou for a player unless the transfer was illegal. The deltio means he belongs to the team,and can play for them "if" it is legal to do so. Not that he can necessarily play for them regardless. Anyone knows different? I do not know if EPO is guilty or not,but on principle alone I believe you guys are wrong. The burden to follow the law is on the citizen not the judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irlandos Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 At the outset of this appeal EPO informed all parties that it was their (EPO) responsibility to check a player's credentials when issuing a card. Those of us who are sane took that to mean the 1-0 result would stand however...this is Elladistan. Hence - the problem that we need foreigners to resolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Posted April 20, 2008 Share Posted April 20, 2008 The fact that Walner is going to play vs. PAO means he still has his green card, and if PAO doesn't complain about his participation, then this will make OSFP's cheeks even more red than they already are ...Just so you know,he is NOT going to play against Pao as it was decided by his club to sit this one out. :PPS.Someone needs to change the title on this topic,it is not Osfp appeal anymore,we won our case,it should be Kalamaria appeal on CAS with Aek and Pao holding its hand....... :P :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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