Olympiakos Appeal

[THYRA13]

At the outset of this appeal EPO informed all parties that it was their (EPO) responsibility to check a player's credentials when issuing a card. Those of us who are sane took that to mean the 1-0 result would stand however...this is Elladistan. Hence - the problem that we need foreigners to resolve.

I believe you are missing the point.

Or you chose to avoid seeing it.

To give another example.

In the US you as a citizen are allowed to own a hand gun.

The Goverment does research on you and allows you to buy it after the check.

That in itself does not mean that the gun will be used in a legal manner.

Ownership and use are different under the law.

Now.... does anyone actually know different?

[Genome]

We're not talking guns here, we're talking about a card that actually makes it legal for him to play... he can't do anything with it (like shoot someone, at least not to my knowledge :D), but it does give him certain rights!

[THYRA13]

We're not talking guns here, we're talking about a card that actually makes it legal for him to play... he can't do anything with it (like shoot someone, at least not to my knowledge :D), but it does give him certain rights!

You do not think what you just wrote is relevant or even halfway intelligent .do you?

If you can not ( or are unwilling) to see the point there is no need for me to argue further.

[Crazy]

You can not compare US laws and regulations with Greek sports rules and EPO on a subject that is not 100% clear.The player got a card/licence to play by EPO,Olympiakos said that he should not have gotten that permision,EPO agreed and took the decision about the game and player,Kalamaria went to CAS,AEK and PAO as the clubs that might benefit from a reverse of the action are backing up Kalamarias claim and we will get the decision from the euro court monday.EPO is the solid responsible party on this whole case,since that is what CAS is going to check,who and why checked the player and if he should or not play in the greek league.

[cyberfish]

Rivaldo can now brag he wins championships on the pitch everywhere he goes, and Kokalis can brag he wins them off the field no matter what :LOL:

[THYRA13]

Crazy.

Nobody is comparing laws here ,its just an example of ownership and use.

That is universal.Trust me I know.

I am not certain that CAS is deciding the point you describe.

In legal terms asking for asfalistika metra is no more than asking for certain things not to go into effect (or the opposite ,which ever the case might be)

untill the case goes to trial.

Nothing else.

This is prety much the case everywhere.Period.

Epo's guilt or innocence or anybody else's guilt for that matter is to be decided at a future hearing, if any.

Regardless of if my info is correct or not, if what you describe is correct to a "t", then

AS an Olympiakos fan I would have to say that Kalamaria is not at fault and if AEK wins today they should be the champions.

From what I have read this is not the case.

I am not talking what we might thing is the right thing or not here.

But what is legal.

Unfortunate I know,but we have made this the world that it is.

I wish it was different in many respects.

[NYPAO13]

congratulations to Aek

[Genome]

You do not think what you just wrote is relevant or even halfway intelligent .do you?

If you can not ( or are unwilling) to see the point there is no need for me to argue further.

When you get a passport my dear friend, it isn't meant to BE USED in the literal sense that you say it, or to shoot anyone, not to eat, not to ... ok? That passport gives you certain rights etc. So your analogy of the gun was incorrect to begin with, imho. I don't see how when you get a literal OK, a permit, how you can then do exactly what that permit allows you to do, and still do something illegal, according to the rules of that very same permit? It is of course possible that I'm missing something, in which case, my apologies...

It's the same with the green card. It gives you certain rights from as soon as it's issued to you (afaIk) ... so there is no "using" the green card. Once you HAVE it, you are eligible to play. It'ld be the same if I go to let's say Australia and they give me a passport saying, "ok now you have it, but you can not use it ok? Because you're not Australian/You're not allowed in" ... this just wouldn't make any sense. The point of getting that piece of paper is that you get certain rights. In this case, playing!

Now, if you can't see my point, then there is still no reason to call someone else's posts "halfway" intelligent (or less).

And thank you NYPAO13 :tup: :nw: :tup:

[THYRA13]

You are only seeing half of it.To use your example:

When you are given a green card as you say this only allows entry and residence.

It does not mean you will not be liable to the law.

Another example is this: a player can transfer and still not be eligible to play in the champions league for his new team, if he played for another team in that competition in the same year.

It does not mean he does not belong to the new team.

He has the papers (passport if you like)but he can not play.

[Crazy]

You are only seeing half of it.To use your example:

When you are given a green card as you say this only allows entry and residence.

It does not mean you will not be liable to the law.

Another example is this: a player can transfer and still not be eligible to play in the champions league for his new team, if he played for another team in that competition in the same year.

It does not mean he does not belong to the new team.

He has the papers (passport if you like)but he can not play.

The difference in your example and the soccer case is that the USA laws are clear and take no argument about them,INS/Homeland security knows what they are doing,while our case here,we have the issuing authority,EPO,making a "mistake",allowing a player participation to our league,then get Olympiakos to file an appeal on a game because the player took part in it,then EPO saying that,yes,Olympiaskos is correct,we/EPO messed up but Kalamaria should pay for it,untill this day i have not heard anybody losing their job at EPO because of this case,make Kalamaria lose the game and deduct some points,give Olympiakos the win and 3 points.Now we have CAS trying to figure out,who is to blame and who is most at fault,EPO or Kalamaria amd what if any punishment is in order.......

[Genome]

When you are given a green card as you say this only allows entry and residence.

Are you absolutely sure that an EPO issued green card only allows entry/residence and not the right to play? (Not sarcastic or anything, I don't know myself that's why I'm asking).

Crazy's post puts it well what concerns this case ...

[THYRA13]

Crazy .

Regardless if INS or Epo made a mistake in admitting the immigrant or player respectively, the burden is not with the issuing authority, but with the entrant.

Genome:On your question about what deltio really means, I am almost certain.

Well .......as certain as anyone can be.

Here is another example why I think so, since my Champions League one did not seem to convince you.

A player holding a non koinotiko passport gets transfered to Olympiakos.

EPO recognizes the transfer and issues the paperwork.

Olympiakos makes another player transfer and the new player to be transferred is also a non koinotiko passport holder.

This will put Olympiakos over the foreign player limit.

Yet the transfer is approved (as it should) and papers are issued.

EPO did nothing wrong.

Olympiakos though can only play one player, even though he owns both.

It is up to the Team( Olympiakos) to comply with the law.

Thus they loan one of the two players so that they will not break the law.

It is up to them to comply.

Did EPO do anything wrong?

Of course not.

They were obligated to approve the transfers , there was no reason to object.

They should object, though, to the team using both players.

Ther are no limits as to how many players a team can own.

There are limits to who, and how many can play.

This happened last summer I believe, if memory serves correctly, and in any case it is a rather common occurrence in all European leagues every year .

I do not know what the result of the hearings will be, and I truly wish it had never come to this.

My team ,Olympiakos,did not deserve the championship this year partly because of this Kalamaria fiasco, but mainly because they sucked on the field.

It was embarrashing watching them at many a time.

Regardless of the result this years championship win by them ( if it stands ) will always have an asterisk next to it as far as I am concerned.

AEK was the better team this year overall.

On another point ,I wish all teams respect the court decisions and do not go along with some of the " An den dikaiothoume we will not play in the playoffs", bull some are uttering.

This will make us look tritokosmiki a lot more than the present fiasco.

[levendi2000]

Just so you know,he is NOT going to play against Pao as it was decided by his club to sit this one out. :P

PS.Someone needs to change the title on this topic,it is not Osfp appeal anymore,we won our case,it should be Kalamaria appeal on CAS with Aek and Pao holding its hand....... :P :D

lol!!

AEK missed out on the title because of your sore-losing club and demolished you 4-0 less than a month ago.. I think AEK are the worthy title winners. Not some rich-boy team who wins games on paper!

From a neutral perspective. your club and all its supporters are sore losers and hopefully the title will be awarded to the team who earned their points on grass not in suits and ties..

If i was AEK i wouldnt be holding Kalamaria by the hand.. I would be carrying them! Kalamarias were robbed.. the deduction of 4 points destroyed their season.. Their morale was down!! And AEK are the true winners here regardless of the CAS outcome.. 4-0 enough evidence?

CONGRATULATIONS AEK!!!! THE REAL 2008 SUPERLEAGUE WINNERS!! :box:

[Guest TheLegend]

Just so you know,he is NOT going to play against Pao as it was decided by his club to sit this one out. :P

PS.Someone needs to change the title on this topic,it is not Osfp appeal anymore,we won our case,it should be Kalamaria appeal on CAS with Aek and Pao holding its hand....... :P  :D

lol!!

AEK missed out on the title because of your sore-losing club and demolished you 4-0 less than a month ago.. I think AEK are the worthy title winners. Not some rich-boy team who wins games on paper!

From a neutral perspective. your club and all its supporters are sore losers and hopefully the title will be awarded to the team who earned their points on grass not in suits and ties..

If i was AEK i wouldnt be holding Kalamaria by the hand.. I would be carrying them! Kalamarias were robbed.. the deduction of 4 points destroyed their season.. Their morale was down!! And AEK are the true winners here regardless of the CAS outcome.. 4-0 enough evidence?

CONGRATULATIONS AEK!!!! THE REAL 2008 SUPERLEAGUE WINNERS!! :box:

lol levendi with another bandwagoning brilliant post. ata boy! :tup:

Join the other pao bandwagon fans and praise the athlitiki enosis of tourkia after you were shitting on them when pao beat them a few months ago..

1 game doesnt make u deserve the title. The reason they are behind in points is cuz why? If they were the best team why did they have 6 loses meanwhile pao and oly had 4 and 2 respectivly. Aek as well as olympiacos and pao was s%$#! for most of the season with the exception of a few games...

and once again your brilliant argument is "wallner shouldnt have played, but its olympiacos, so kalamaria shouldnt be in any trouble"

brilliant argument. You should be a lawyer you know that?

[MadBoy13]

for me AEK is the champion for 07-08!!!

Kelpekis (goalkeeper Kalamarias) said the same thing... :la: :blink:

[cyberfish]

<replaced my original legalistic rant with this>

'And the crucial moment is that brutal instant which reveals that the journey has no end, that there is no longer any reason for it to come to and end.

Beyond a certain point it is movement itself that changes.'

Jean Baudrillard, "America"

</end this>

[Kolokotronis]

I believe you are missing the point.

Or you chose to avoid seeing it.

To give another example.

In the US you as a citizen are allowed to own a hand gun.

The Goverment does research on you and allows you to buy it after the check.

That in itself does not mean that the gun will be used in a legal manner.

Ownership and use are different under the law.

Now.... does anyone actually know different?

The purchase agreement by and between the clubs and the player contract is proof of ownership.

The blue card is the transfer from one association to another.

The player passport is the players transfer history, ostensibly to make it easier for the "new" fa to detrmine issues of eligibility when issuing a pass, especially in light of recent British cases which brought about the 2008 amendments to FIFA's laws relating to player transfers.

The players "pass" (deltio) is his PERMISSION TO PLAY from the issuing fa.

Did I miss anything?

Se ligo tha kanoume to aspro mavro.

[MadBoy13]

"SPORTDAY" is interesting today.... leei oti "APOKLEISTIKA" oti to CAS tha pei oti einai anarmodio na katataksei vathmologia kai tha pei na afisei stin EPO na afisei etsi pos einai tora i vathmologia.. diladi me protathliti tous gaurous...

we all gonna know a little after 4.00 pm!

[MadBoy13]

there you go:

http://www.sport-fm.gr/article.jsp?id=128147

[levendi2000]

anyone good at translations?

[levendi2000]

it appears to me that CAS do not want to attract the media as the public will know that they determined who won the title in Greece. CAS do not want a reputation of doing this

They don't want anything to do with it because they are affraid and therefore what ever EPO decided stands.. and the Cheats can win the title on paper again..

but like i said before

CONGRATULATIONS AEK!! CHAMPIONS 08

[NYPAO13]

it will give EPO to do whatever it wants in the future... That is if CAS leaves this alone. Our league needs to be POLICED. CAS needs to study the history of the league, & not to leave the EPO decision stand, & to make their own judgement

[cyberfish]

It's official: CAS rejected Kalamaria's appeal.

[Crazy]

[cyberfish]

It's already making the rounds:

"Rivaldo may quit Greece over legal wrangling"

http://football.uk.reuters.com/world/news/...s/L21721227.php

@Crazy: I Rivaldo does not participate in the playoffs, Panathinaikos will bench their "two Rivaldos" to make it fair. :P