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@Rockafeller Skank

No one is arguing the fact that  this campaign has been better then our last campaign that's not a question and yes Skibbe is using the NT to its strengths which is our defence and that's good but everyone including the media is very upset with his call ups and the OUT OF FORM PLAYERS he choose to play against Estonia which was a MUST WIN. YOu don't need Tziolis in that game and you shouldn't start Vellios when he hasn't started a game for ever and wasn't in game shape. He also had Taxi and Staf he could have played... Forget the fact that we tied Estonia for a second but the problem is we didn't tie Estonia with our best possible line up that's the problem as we didn't give ourselves the best chance to win and that's what bothers everybody. We had almost NO shots on net especially in the second so why didn't Skibbe then make changes that made sense to bring more offence? You can refer back to the Faroe Islands and us blowing leads against s%$#! team but you still can't play scared and you still need to go for the win against teams that are much weaker then you. In a World Cup qualifying campaign the margin for error is so slim that you CANNOT afford to not get 3 points against teams below you. If we played our best possible line up against Estonia and we still got the same result then so be it as it would have been on the players for not coming through but Skibbe didn't even give us a chance to win with his selections. He made a huge mistake by looking ahead and resting players to be ready for the Belgium match and he completely screwed the team by not playing his best line up against Estonia and then let the chips fall where they would have against Belgium as Estonia was the more important game for us. Nobody would have started players that haven't played in months and are out of form when you have inform players not being called up. I'm not blaming him for everything and Like I said I do like his defence first mentality but he has to be one of the worst coaches we've seen for selecting players in a long time.

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v Croatia  Games won: 2 Games drawn: 3 Games lost: 1 Date Match Result Score

LOL who's Greece? Oh only the team that beat you to the top spot in the Euro 2012 qualifications undefeated

Even though Croatia have bigger name players I also am glad we avoided the Swiss. We tend to typically play better against better offensive teams that have a weaker defence. Lets be honest We are goin

10 hours ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

 

My dear friend do you remember when in 2010 and 2012 we had a midfield of Katsouranis Karagounis Tziolis/Maniatis and people complaining that Katsou and Kara are too old? You wanted Tachtsidis / Kone / Ninis and every random person in there. I even remember discussions about Vlachodimos (the wanna-be- professional winger of B Gallias) deserving a call up. 

Do you remember after 2014 where Karagounis/Katsouranis sorta retired we had no cohesense in the midfield and lost to teams like Finland/Faroe Islands/Romania? The image of those matches was the same. Apart from 1-2 in the Euro 2016 campaign we looked shitte in all matches and we were actually the worst team. Not resultwise but THE WORST DAMN TEAM on the field vs Faroe Finland Romania and many many more. The reason was simple. We didnt have Karagounis and Katsouranis no more. Maniatis started being benched. Kone lost all motivation for his career and football in general and Tachtsidis proved to be no Katsouranis.
You ask for Skibbe to play Tachtsidis? Last time he did it vs Belgium he takes 50% of the blame for the draw because he left us with 10 men for 30+ minutes. But suddently you forgot it. Tziolis did nothing too good vs Belgium but he barely did 1-2 mistakes, fewer than many of our players. He is good at freezing the rhythm and that's why skibbe prefers him. Tachtsidis attributes are his height and his long pass. When we play Gibraltar and need goals or Cyprus he might be used.

Zeca was the back of De Bruyne. Skibbe can literally ask him to make an opponent MF player vanish from the field and he will do it. He did it with Pjanic he did it with De Bruyne.  Teams like Bosnia  who are literally too reliant upon a few names we literally have the advantage based on Karolos Zekas (or maybe Karolos Zekakis,Zekouranis Zekagounis)

 

I will remain to my aspect. It took Skibbe 7 months to take a team from 1win/4draws/7defeats in 12 matches (friendlies counted in the 2014-16 period) to make a team that can draw Belgium and Bosnia.

The thing is , even with the bad result of Estonia and Belgium. The team DID DEFINATELY NOT look like the sh!th0le it was under Ranieri Markarian and Tsanas. We dominated the whle game vs Estonia and just lacked that 1-0 goal that we usually scraped. Even if we do not qualify, even if we end up as the 9th team, as long as we finish 2nd in this Group Skibbe has totally transformed them from zero to hero. The only game we looked bad was vs Bosnia home. 

Rome was not build in a day. A team that missed the Euro finishing last in a Group (a non typical qualification ranking I suppose would be somewhere between 46-53) has now many possibilities to be in UEFA's top 18 for this qualification.

You keep asking for a new coach but you never gonna accept the fact that we are no Germany/ France/Italy/ Spain/ England. The only coach in recent days of Greek football that has heard nothing is Ouzounidis. Everyone, reporters and fans, say nothing against him. The only thing you ll listen is "kai ti na kanei aftos re m#$%! me toso xamhlou epipedou paiktes". Bento had the worst roster of Olympiakos in the last 10 years and he literally got us further in Europe than all these seasons. Yet everyone called Bento bad. It's easy to blame Skibbe, because it's easier to replace one person and not 23 as the call ups.

I am thankful for where we are and what Skibbe has done. We are looking like a team again. I didn't say I want Skibbe out. But can you please tell me what Tziolis did so good in both matches. I'll wait... 

When you have a player like Tachtsidis tall, strong, good at long passing and has the best vision in the team. If you have him out of the team your creating more problems for yourself. Samaris could have easily done Tziolis job and better. Then you can have Tachtsidis spraying better passes forward. 

Also the reason why we we didn't do well was because of the coaches we had and they players were not playing as a team, which there was no unity. 

When you say that Tachtsidis is no Katsouranis I don't know what you mean? What would have Katsouranis done different in the games Tachtsidis played?

You are right Zeca has helped a lot. Our problem is and always will be is our strikers. Without Mitroglou what are we going to do. Unless we have decent wingers who can cross the ball and a number 10 that can't stop running and making chances for himself and teammates. Donis created chances not only for the team but for himself. Tzavellas was the only one who could cross a decent ball and look what happened we scored. 

Overall if Skibbe can not start Tziolis more and improve his subs we will take that next level. 

Also I do remember those days with the midfield we had. The last time we won with Tziolis in the team was 2013. That's saying something. Last thing remember when Tziolis came on against Belgium away we copped a goal from poor marking by Sokratis. Is that a coincidence?

 

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Remember the old saying in qualifying for major tournaments you have to win your home games, failing to beat Estonia at home may cost the team a chance at qualifying for the world cup. Tziolis ruined so many offensive attacks in both games by not playing the right ball or giving away possession. Almost everyone here and in the Greek media who follow this team agree that he should not be selected let alone be in the starting 11 plain and simple! 

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Tziolis,Vellios, and Diamantakos can't cut it. Maniatis ran hard last game and admire his efforts, he just doesn't have the ability to cross the ball. 

Like your in list, it would be great to have Holebas and Skibbe sit down and try to come to some understanding to bring him back in the fold. Feta and Holebas in the lineup vastly upgrades the NT.

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13 hours ago, Ellada2004 said:

Tziolis,Vellios, and Diamantakos can't cut it. Maniatis ran hard last game and admire his efforts, he just doesn't have the ability to cross the ball. 

Like your in list, it would be great to have Holebas and Skibbe sit down and try to come to some understanding to bring him back in the fold. Feta and Holebas in the lineup vastly upgrades the NT.

No manager will go beg a player to come back after they unceremoniously quit the team. Holebas is already 33 years old, although it would have been nice to have him for this campaign, it's too late to initiate any sort of contact now. He played in his tournaments, got exposure that certainly helped him sign for bigger clubs and make more money, and then with the first bump in the road, he said farewell. I think he relieved without his NT duties; not to say he didn't care, but I don't believe he felt as tied to the crest and to his teammates either. 

 

Edited by Argy
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  • 3 weeks later...

Below is Greece’s full roster for the qualifiers against Cyprus and Gibraltar

Goalkeepers: Giannis Anestis (AEK), Stefanos Kapino (Olympiacos), Orestis Karnezis (Watford)

Defenders: Vassilis Torosidis (Bologna), Sokratis Papastathopoulos (B. Dortmund), Kostas Manolas (Roma), Panagiotis Retsos (Bayer Leverkusen), Kyriakos Papadopoulos (Hamburg), Kostas Stafylidis (Augsburg), Giorgos Tzavellas (Alanyaspor)

Midfielders: Panagiotis Tachtsidis (Olympiacos), Andreas Samaris (Benfica), Giannis Maniatis (Alyanspor), Alexandros Tziolis (Al-Fayha), Carlos Zeca (FC Kobehavn), Dimitris Kourbelis (Panathinaikos), Kostas Fortounis (Olympiacos), Petros Mantalos (AEK), Giannis Gianniotas (Real Valladolid), Lazaros Christodoulopoulos (AEK)

Forwards: Dimitris Diamantakos (Karlsruhe), Kostas Mitroglou (Marseille), Tasos Bakasetas (AEK), Tasos Donis (VfB Stuttgart)

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Greece has 10 pts and goal difference +3, after discarding the result with Gibraltar (6th placed team in Group H). Aside from relying on Belgium drawing or beating Bosnia, then

If Greece can beat Cyprus and Gibraltar in last 2 matches, Greece standing with respect to 2nd spot will be 13 pts and goal difference +4 or better.

Will this be good enough?

Group D:

Serbia 18

Wales 14

Ireland 13

Worst scenario: Wales finish on 20 pts with wins away to Georgia (6/10) and at home to Ireland (9/10). This would make it mathematically impossible for Greece to better them as a 2nd placed qualifier.

2nd scenario: Ireland finish on 19 pts with wins at home to Moldova (6/10) and away to Wales (9/10). In this scenario, if Greece wins both its final 2 matches, we would be equal points with Ireland. Greece's goal difference is +3 (7) and Ireland 0 (7). Ireland would have to better Greece's result by 3 or more goals. Unlikely. 

Best scenario for Greece: Georgia draw with Wales (6/10) / Ireland draw or defeat Wales (9/10).

Group A:

France 17

Sweden 16

Netherlands 13

Bulgaria 12

France play Bulgaria away. Bulgaria have won all 4 home qualifiers, but lost 4-1 to France in France.

Sweden at home to Luxembourg (7/10) and Netherlands away to Belarus (7/10) should be easy wins for them.

Netherlands play at home to Sweden (10/10)

Worst scenario: France and Sweden finish on 20 or more points.

Best scenario for Greece: Netherlands beat Sweden at home (10/10). In this scenario, assuming Sweden and Netherlands win easy matches on 7/10, then both finish on 19pts if Netherlands can beat Sweden. Sweden's goal difference +3 (6) and Netherlands +2 (7) if Belarus is 6th placed in Group A.

Group E: 

Poland 19

Montenegro 16

Denmark 16

Key matches: Montenegro at home with Denmark (5/10) and away to Poland (8/10), Denmark at home with Romania (8/10).

Poland play Armenia at home (5/10) and I expect them to win.

Best scenario: Montenegro draws Denmark / draws or loses Poland / Denmark draws or loses to Romania OR Montenegro beats Denmark / loses to Poland. Montenegro goal difference +3 (6) and Denmark goal difference +4 (6). 

Prediction: Too many results need to go our way for this Group and I can't see anything but a Denmark win vs Romania. 

Group F: 

England 20

Slovakia 15

Slovenia 14

Scotland 14

Key matches: Slovakia away to Scotland (5/10) and Slovenia at England (5/10).

If Slovakia beat Scotland away would mean they are virtually guaranteed top 2 finish as their last match is at home with Malta (8/10). Assuming Slovakia draw with Scotland (5/10) then beat Malta, then they finish with 19pts +6 goal difference. Greece would need to beat Cyprus by more than 3 goals to better Slovakia.

Best scenario: Scotland beat Slovakia (5/10), England beat or draws Slovenia (5/10), Scotland draws Slovenia (8/10)

Group I:

Croatia 16

Iceland 16

Turkey 14

Ukraine 14

Ukraine plays Kosovo (6/10) and Iceland plays Kosovo (9/10) which should be easy wins.

Best scenario: Turkey beats Iceland at home (6/10) and draws Finland away (6/10), Croatia draws Finland at home (6/10), Croatia draws or beats Ukraine away (9/10)

Bottom line: If Croatia beat Finland and Turkey fails to beat Iceland then at least 2 teams will finish on 20 points <assuming Kosovo don't cause an upset>

...

Ps: All of this is meaningless, if we can't beat Cyprus or Bosnia doesn't drop points with either Belgium or Estonia.

Edited by kbxk508
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1 hour ago, kbxk508 said:

Greece has 10 pts and goal difference +3, after discarding the result with Gibraltar (6th placed team in Group H). Aside from relying on Belgium drawing or beating Bosnia, then

If Greece can beat Cyprus and Gibraltar in last 2 matches, Greece standing with respect to 2nd spot will be 13 pts and goal difference +4 or better.

Will this be good enough?

Group D:

Serbia 18

Wales 14

Ireland 13

Worst scenario: Wales finish on 20 pts with wins away to Georgia (6/10) and at home to Ireland (9/10). This would make it mathematically impossible for Greece to better them as a 2nd placed qualifier.

2nd scenario: Ireland finish on 19 pts with wins at home to Moldova (6/10) and away to Wales (9/10). In this scenario, if Greece wins both its final 2 matches, we would be equal points with Ireland. Greece's goal difference is +3 (7) and Ireland 0 (7). Ireland would have to better Greece's result by 3 or more goals. Unlikely. 

Best scenario for Greece: Georgia draw with Wales (6/10) / Ireland draw or defeat Wales (9/10).

Group A:

France 17

Sweden 16

Netherlands 13

Bulgaria 12

France play Bulgaria away. Bulgaria have won all 4 home qualifiers, but lost 4-1 to France in France.

Sweden at home to Luxembourg (7/10) and Netherlands away to Belarus (7/10) should be easy wins for them.

Netherlands play at home to Sweden (10/10)

Worst scenario: France and Sweden finish on 20 or more points.

Best scenario for Greece: Netherlands beat Sweden at home (10/10). In this scenario, assuming Sweden and Netherlands win easy matches on 7/10, then both finish on 19pts if Netherlands can beat Sweden. Sweden's goal difference +3 (6) and Netherlands +2 (7) if Belarus is 6th placed in Group A.

Group E: 

Poland 19

Montenegro 16

Denmark 16

Key matches: Montenegro at home with Denmark (5/10) and away to Poland (8/10), Denmark at home with Romania (8/10).

Poland play Armenia at home (5/10) and I expect them to win.

Best scenario: Montenegro draws Denmark / draws or loses Poland / Denmark draws or loses to Romania OR Montenegro beats Denmark / loses to Poland. Montenegro goal difference +3 (6) and Denmark goal difference +4 (6). 

Prediction: Too many results need to go our way for this Group and I can't see anything but a Denmark win vs Romania. 

Group F: 

England 20

Slovakia 15

Slovenia 14

Scotland 14

Key matches: Slovakia away to Scotland (5/10) and Slovenia at England (5/10).

If Slovakia beat Scotland away would mean they are virtually guaranteed top 2 finish as their last match is at home with Malta (8/10). Assuming Slovakia draw with Scotland (5/10) then beat Malta, then they finish with 19pts +6 goal difference. Greece would need to beat Cyprus by more than 3 goals to better Slovakia.

Best scenario: Scotland beat Slovakia (5/10), England beat or draws Slovenia (5/10), Scotland draws Slovenia (8/10)

Group I:

Croatia 16

Iceland 16

Turkey 14

Ukraine 14

Ukraine plays Kosovo (6/10) and Iceland plays Kosovo (9/10) which should be easy wins.

Best scenario: Turkey beats Iceland at home (6/10) and draws Finland away (6/10), Croatia draws Finland at home (6/10), Croatia draws or beats Ukraine away (9/10)

Bottom line: If Croatia beat Finland and Turkey fails to beat Iceland then at least 2 teams will finish on 20 points <assuming Kosovo don't cause an upset>

...

Ps: All of this is meaningless, if we can't beat Cyprus or Bosnia doesn't drop points with either Belgium or Estonia.

I think our best chance is in besting Group D either over Wales or Ireland. In Group F I think Slovakia could slip up. Thanks for the analysis can't believe we are at risk of being the worst 2nd place team should we get to 19 points. 

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@kbxk508

nice break down but you're absolutely right if we don't beat Cyprus then there is no need to worry what the other groups do. Good thing is we will no what the outcome of the Belgium and Bosnia match before we start our match.. after Saturdays game if we beat Cyprus and Bosnia drop points then we can focus on the other groups but for now we need to pray we get a win and Bosnia lose or draw.. I don't know if it's a good thing or bad thing the Greek team knowing the result of the Bosnia match before they play Cyprus..

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Hopefully Scotland don’t win away to Slovenia tomorrow & then Greece can focus on Gibraltar & the play-off. There are a few more results that can help but it would good if Slovenia don’t lose to not have to wait.

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With only the match at home to Gibraltar remaining for Greece in Group H if we look at Greece’s 2018 World Cup campaign, the Estonia match at home (0-0) was by far the biggest disappointment. The one & only loss for Greece against Belgium at home was probably it’s best performance. Belgium away along with Bosnia & Herzegovina away are usually impossible places for even the best to win & Greece got draws in both & possibly very close to winning both. 

Edited by Greekaroos
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Slovenia v Scotland no doubt shapes as our best chance
A few things to make us a feel a little easier 
-slovenia have not lost at home all qualifiers
-They are still a slim chance to make the play-offs themselves, so they will be playing to win. However unlikely it is (they need to Slovakia to drop points against Malta) always a bonus having a team playing for something in-front of their fans. 
 

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4 hours ago, Boxou said:

im reading in case scotland drops points to slovenia we'll also need slovakia to beat malta, dunno why. not saying it won't happening but still.

No it doesn't matter what Slovakia do as they can't  catch us in points no matter what. Their result against Malta is irrelevant to us in only matters for Slovenia.

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