Summer 2009 transfers

[Kojak]

Just to clear this statistic debate a little.

None of our current crop of strikers score consistently. (apart form salpi, and thats through sheer determination)

We DONT have proven goal scorers period! we fans dont need statistics to tell us any of that, all you need is eyes, or glasses for those that wear them without green lenses of course!

Each of us have our own pet players, guys we believe in, we think may have potential.....or for absolutely no reason we just like them. Some fell in love with mantzio from his brilliant aek games, some love salpi because he is short,ugly and balding and it gives hope to average guys that with hard work you can make it, some like petropoulo cause they think hes cute.....

Me i like rukavina ...shoot me... i dont know why...he hasnt exactly proven himself, but my gut feeling is he can turn out awesome...or he may not...

However we can all agree that we lack a goal scoring machine....someone who scores under pressure..in big games..in small games...and in his sleep and even with his wife or girlfriend!!

So in the end i couldnt care less if we sold them all, as long as proven scorers (in competitive leagues) whether 17 or 35 come to our club with no injury clouds around them.....

[cyberfish]

I think there is a bit of a confusion in our discussion.

That Mantzios contributed 4 total goals and ZERO assists in our quest for the title is neither a statistic nor an opinion. It's a fact.

All asumptions that try to explain that fact are mostly opinions. The idea that others are responsible for Mantzios' dry spell can explain part of his lack of scoring, but does not explain why others scored more with the same teammates.

Like Kojak said, the bottom line is "scoring". Panathinaikos' CF must score with regularity irrespective of opponent, weather, teammates, solar flares and the such. To bring back Warzycha, he scored even when the team was in shambles.

I am not saying others are entitled to a starting spot because they scored more. But I am saying that if others scored more with less minutes, the one with the more minutes should have scored more. It wasn't just one other player who scored more but several. It kind of shows that the team created enough chances to put players in scoring positions and some were better positioned to take advantage.

Personally, I like Mantzios and I was happy he got the chance to be a starter, but e is way too casual in the box and that's why he doesn't score. He's been with PAO since 2005 and he has not grown much. He showed much more maturity this season but it's still not good enough. He could probably improve if he gets another season to start, but personally, I am not willing to wait around anothe season for Mantzios to develop.

Now, he does have some attributes that make him a good second striker. He can hold the ball outside the box and he contributes to offensive development more than Roukavina or Petropoulos, so he can play a role on the team or on certain games, but I think everyone knows that we need a better CF by now.

[Euro2004]

As Kojak says, everyone has their favourites but as Cyberfish points out:

That Mantzios contributed 4 total goals and ZERO assists in our quest for the title is neither a statistic nor an opinion. It's a fact.

All asumptions that try to explain that fact are mostly opinions.

However, I think everyone here is failing to touch on the balance of a team. Every forward has a role, some are centre-forwards whose responsibility is to score, others have the responsibility to hold up the ball allowing the play to develop. Others are pacey and are expected to stretch defences with a high work rate, etc. PAO is lacking the right balance at the moment. A team needs a creative striker (a number 10), a target man, a finisher (or fox in the box as we call them in the UK) and a pacey and skillful winger/forward. For instance, Man Utd's treble winning team had that balance: Sherringham was the creative forward, Yorke the target man, Giggs was the pacey winger/forward that liked to stretch teams and Solskjaer/Cole was the fox in the box. This is essential because you need to be able to vary your tactics. There's no point in having 4 talented small forwards, for instance: Defoe, Gekas, Saviola and Owen wouldn't work because you'd be one dimensional. So instead of arguing about who scores more, we should be asking who is good enough in their respective roles.

The Creative forward:

Mantzios falls in this category as well as the target man category. He is a very good forward for holding up the play and bringing others in, but he is too casual in the box and he needs to work on that. He's also good in the air so he is probably our most vital forward in my opinion. I say this because a player in his mould would be hard to find for the money we'd receive if we sold him.

The Fox In The Box:

Salpi isn't skillful enough to fall under the skillful winger/forward category but he is quick and I respect him because of his sheer work rate. BUT is he good enough to score 20 goals a year and lead us to a title? I think he's limited. I'm not saying he should be sold because a team needs depth but he simply can't be our main goal-getter. Look at our rivals as measuring sticks: AEK have Blanco & Olympiakos have Derbyshire, both of whom are better goal-scorers than Salpi. So we need to replace him imo.

The Quick and Skillful Winger/Forward:

We have Christodoulopoulos and Rukavina here and I'm a fan of both to be honest... as youngsters! They are talented and have potential, but again, compare them to our rivals: AEK have Scocco and Olympiakos have Galletti and again we pale in comparison. This is why I'd love to go back in for Oliveira now that Betis are down. He gets goals and likes to stretch teams on the left.

The Target Man:

As mentioned Mantzios can play as a target man, but he's too lazy and not hard enough for this role. Petropoulos I like alot but once again we have to ask, is he as good as Kovacevic was? No way. He's a talented young player but the fact is we never replaced Konstantinou, who at his best was class (regardless of what most PAO fans think of him now). So we need a target man too.

The point is, the only one of the forwards we can be happy with for his ability now (not taking potential into account) is Mantzios, the rest can all be upgraded. In an ideal world we'd go and buy Oliveira (Betis), Pavlyuchenko (Tottenham) and Sand (Lanus) and we'd win the league. It's unreasonable to expect this though, so we have to ask which one are we most desperate for. The fact is we're most desperate for goals, i.e. a "fox in the box" but because we are fairly small in attack we need a forward that can also bring a physical element to the front line. So anyone of Dzeko (Wolfsburg), Pavlyuchenko (Tottenham), Pogrebnyak (Zenit), Quagriarella (Udinese - although he's on the verge of a move to Napoli), etc, and i'll be delighted. We'd then still need a left sided player and with Drenthe able to play anywhere on the left he'd be perfect. So let's spend big on Pavlyuchenko, secure Drenthe, Seitaridis and a centre-back (seems like it's Kante) and we'll be ready!

[drakos13]

I think there is a bit of a confusion in our discussion.

That Mantzios contributed 4 total goals and ZERO assists in our quest for the title is neither a statistic nor an opinion. It's a fact.

All asumptions that try to explain that fact are mostly opinions. The idea that others are responsible for Mantzios' dry spell can explain part of his lack of scoring, but does not explain why others scored more with the same teammates.

Like Kojak said, the bottom line is "scoring". Panathinaikos' CF must score with regularity irrespective of opponent, weather, teammates, solar flares and the such. To bring back Warzycha, he scored even when the team was in shambles.

I am not saying others are entitled to a starting spot because they scored more. But I am saying that if others scored more with less minutes, the one with the more minutes should have scored more. It wasn't just one other player who scored more but several. It kind of shows that the team created enough chances to put players in scoring positions and some were better positioned to take advantage.

Personally, I like Mantzios and I was happy he got the chance to be a starter, but e is way too casual in the box and that's why he doesn't score. He's been with PAO since 2005 and he has not grown much. He showed much more maturity this season but it's still not good enough. He could probably improve if he gets another season to start, but personally, I am not willing to wait around anothe season for Mantzios to develop.

Now, he does have some attributes that make him a good second striker. He can hold the ball outside the box and he contributes to offensive development more than Roukavina or Petropoulos, so he can play a role on the team or on certain games, but I think everyone knows that we need a better CF by now.

He had 2 assists, one in Playoffs one and one in regular.

(vs Aris, vs AEK playoff)

Read Transfermarkt.de , or go to Goal4replay.net and watch the goals yourself.

All asumptions that try to explain that fact are mostly opinions. The idea that others are responsible for Mantzios' dry spell can explain part of his lack of scoring, but does not explain why others scored more with the same teammates.

Form is a variable one of many, not just the teammates. Same teammates? So playing against OSFP and playing Panthrakikos are effectively the same to measure by?

No. When a team finds space, plays well and creates chances, a striker is more likely to finish the product. The more chances, the more likleyhood of goal by given striker. When your team as a whole is playing Opa-Ole and circling around OFI, your more likely to get a goal. When your playing any team and you cant create decent chances or penetration, your less likley to get a goal.

And safe to say this team has been completley inconsistent and varying in performances. At the level even pure chance would suggest players who are in more dominant matches and presented with great opportunities through out the match are is heavily favoured to score more as those who get presented with less.

Any striker knows this too, when you see your team playing well, you know you just want a peice of the pie and to score but on bad days, you know its not as likely that day you'll hit the nets if even a decent chance.

Also, they did not necessarily play with the same teammates. The lineup shifted in selections and tactics. Dont forget opponents too....

Like I said, the significant variables are endless, there is nothing useful or accurate coming out of this assumptions.

Bikowski vs Rivaldo....A great example of how stat to stat comparisons in fotoball can often be utter nonsense.

IMO, you oftne you need subjective values like player ratings to gage performance and make opinions to mix into in the objective ones.. Thats probably why player ratings exist in football, and not in other sports.

[NikosVazelas]

Rivaldo isnt the same .... Rivaldo scored 14 goals in one season...as a midfielder whereas whats his face.. had 4 in 9 games as a cf....

We have seen Petropoulos score consistently for 2 years in the league two years ago with OFI scoring 5 or 6 goals in the last 10 games and this year with pao scoring 7 goals in under 8 games...

Im just saying that, with limited oppurtunities, both him and Ruka scored alot of goals while others played nearly all the minutes, for years and years and havent proven much to me anyway...

Mantzios Is a great talent who has No balls...

Salpi is missing the killer instinct and the height....

We had Gekas who was a goal scorer everywhere he played..and scored tons with pao....

Im just sayin... Petro and ruka are 22... Mantzio is gonna be 27 and salpi 29....

You cant compare...

[Clover22]

As Kojak says, everyone has their favourites but as Cyberfish points out:

That Mantzios contributed 4 total goals and ZERO assists in our quest for the title is neither a statistic nor an opinion. It's a fact.

All asumptions that try to explain that fact are mostly opinions.

However, I think everyone here is failing to touch on the balance of a team. Every forward has a role, some are centre-forwards whose responsibility is to score, others have the responsibility to hold up the ball allowing the play to develop. Others are pacey and are expected to stretch defences with a high work rate, etc. PAO is lacking the right balance at the moment. A team needs a creative striker (a number 10), a target man, a finisher (or fox in the box as we call them in the UK) and a pacey and skillful winger/forward. For instance, Man Utd's treble winning team had that balance: Sherringham was the creative forward, Yorke the target man, Giggs was the pacey winger/forward that liked to stretch teams and Solskjaer/Cole was the fox in the box. This is essential because you need to be able to vary your tactics. There's no point in having 4 talented small forwards, for instance: Defoe, Gekas, Saviola and Owen wouldn't work because you'd be one dimensional. So instead of arguing about who scores more, we should be asking who is good enough in their respective roles.

The Creative forward:

Mantzios falls in this category as well as the target man category. He is a very good forward for holding up the play and bringing others in, but he is too casual in the box and he needs to work on that. He's also good in the air so he is probably our most vital forward in my opinion. I say this because a player in his mould would be hard to find for the money we'd receive if we sold him.

The Fox In The Box:

Salpi isn't skillful enough to fall under the skillful winger/forward category but he is quick and I respect him because of his sheer work rate. BUT is he good enough to score 20 goals a year and lead us to a title? I think he's limited. I'm not saying he should be sold because a team needs depth but he simply can't be our main goal-getter. Look at our rivals as measuring sticks: AEK have Blanco & Olympiakos have Derbyshire, both of whom are better goal-scorers than Salpi. So we need to replace him imo.

The Quick and Skillful Winger/Forward:

We have Christodoulopoulos and Rukavina here and I'm a fan of both to be honest... as youngsters! They are talented and have potential, but again, compare them to our rivals: AEK have Scocco and Olympiakos have Galletti and again we pale in comparison. This is why I'd love to go back in for Oliveira now that Betis are down. He gets goals and likes to stretch teams on the left.

The Target Man:

As mentioned Mantzios can play as a target man, but he's too lazy and not hard enough for this role. Petropoulos I like alot but once again we have to ask, is he as good as Kovacevic was? No way. He's a talented young player but the fact is we never replaced Konstantinou, who at his best was class (regardless of what most PAO fans think of him now). So we need a target man too.

The point is, the only one of the forwards we can be happy with for his ability now (not taking potential into account) is Mantzios, the rest can all be upgraded. In an ideal world we'd go and buy Oliveira (Betis), Pavlyuchenko (Tottenham) and Sand (Lanus) and we'd win the league. It's unreasonable to expect this though, so we have to ask which one are we most desperate for. The fact is we're most desperate for goals, i.e. a "fox in the box" but because we are fairly small in attack we need a forward that can also bring a physical element to the front line. So anyone of Dzeko (Wolfsburg), Pavlyuchenko (Tottenham), Pogrebnyak (Zenit), Quagriarella (Udinese - although he's on the verge of a move to Napoli), etc, and i'll be delighted. We'd then still need a left sided player and with Drenthe able to play anywhere on the left he'd be perfect. So let's spend big on Pavlyuchenko, secure Drenthe, Seitaridis and a centre-back (seems like it's Kante) and we'll be ready!a "fox

Very good post. As I've stated before, no matter what happens, keeping Mantzios is a must because he's too unique a player. This is a player who can do his magic in the most difficult games: CL. I really can't think of any other Greek players like him (and he would give a lot of dimension to the NT, but he needs to PLAY). I totally agree though we need a "fox". Thats why it would be nice if we could get Gekas back, but I don't know how realistic that is (I'm sure lots of teams in better leagues would be interested) or if they're even thinking about getting him.

[drakos13]

Rivaldo isnt the same .... Rivaldo scored 14 goals in one season...as a midfielder whereas whats his face.. had 4 in 9 games as a cf....

We have seen Petropoulos score consistently for 2 years in the league two years ago with OFI scoring 5 or 6 goals in the last 10 games and this year with pao scoring 7 goals in under 8 games...

Im just saying that, with limited oppurtunities, both him and Ruka scored alot of goals while others played nearly all the minutes, for years and years and havent proven much to me anyway...

Mantzios Is a great talent who has No balls...

Salpi is missing the killer instinct and the height....

We had Gekas who was a goal scorer everywhere he played..and scored tons with pao....

Im just sayin... Petro and ruka are 22... Mantzio is gonna be 27 and salpi 29....

You cant compare...

my point about Rivlado is excalty that.

YOU CANT compare. They are two wildly differnt class players with similar stats on their first season (example)

Bikovs hit 5-6 in barely any games and minutes compared to Rivaldo. But diff positions, diff teams, opponenst, circumstances are what makes the big differences, and Bikovski hit nearly as many as Rivaldo who had 7 that season I think.

How many times did Rukavina play as a lone striker as opposed to Mantzios? theres plenty of factors. that make it all not telling of hardly anything. Subjective Player ratings are even better in rating a player's efficiency.

Gkekas was a very talented player and finisher, since Kallithea. He was strong in the air, and quick quick on the long ball and finished 1 on 1s. Personally neither Mantzios or Rukavina have a hope of being as well rounded as him. It was idiotic to let a player who kept bailing us out and lead our teams offense out to loan in Germany.....

Age isnt relevant man. Hes 26 Mantzios has developed so much in the last 2 years alone. Remember the preseason when Mantzios came back a new player? Many players dont reach their peak till 29-30. No point giving up on the guy. Hes definitly earned a spot in the PAO rotation, which is more than I cans say for Rukavina, who could not pass or hold on to a ball, and looks absolutley lost on the field.

Mantzios probably didnt finish all of his chances. But credit to Vangeli his chances required luck AND skill. Rukavina blew so many rubbish easy chances at the end of the season it was pathetic, and the only ones he could finish were simple finishes all year and one decent volley.

As for Mantzios playing all the minutes for years and years this isnt at all true.

We've yet to see him fully dominate and feature as the starting CF, even this year with injury and 'tactic' changes by HTC it only half-happened. Last year, Peseiro the idiot would NOT play him even when he had great games and was showing promise. That AEK derby he was a star and performing well in other games too. Then he got shipped off on loan.

[cyberfish]

I like Euro's post a lot.

I am happy with Salpi. 10+ goals per season from the second forward is good production. In this system with responsibility on the wing and to pressure the defense high, scoring that many goals is a real achievement. Would I be happy if we upgraded with someone like, say, Palacio? I'd be ecstatic. But in the grand scheme of things, I'd like to see someone on the left that contributes as much as Salpi does on the right, and of course a target man that can score above all. Mantzios won't be happy on the bench, but we need a powerhouse that can score above all else.

[drakos13]

Salpi is good but we could do better. I think theres nothing wrong with having a "lead striker', and rotating Salpi and Mantzios keeping them on the team, who are 2 different types of striker, with Petropoulos and Rukavina also on their as rotation or backups. I dont see anything wrong with a team having 5 forwards, and the whole "shrink the team" is a cliche. We've been hit hard by injuries before and often. Last year some games we had 2-3 forwards out and Peseiro used Sariegui as a forward (which was stupid, because everybody knows Gkoumas is basically a loaded weapon up top, not just headers either, he honestly looked more dangeours than some of our strikers when given a chance)

Remember when PAO had a crazy combination of forwards?

Konstantinou, Lymberopoulos, Olisadebe, Vlaovic, Warzycha?

We were AWSEOME back then, and strikers were no worries. any of the top 4 were good enough to start and perform. We should be shifting our top players down, and replacing them with a lead striker.

[NYPAO13]

Salpi is good but we could do better. I think theres nothing wrong with having a "lead striker', and rotating Salpi and Mantzios keeping them on the team, who are 2 different types of striker, with Petropoulos and Rukavina also on their as rotation or backups. I dont see anything wrong with a team having 5 forwards, and the whole "shrink the team" is a cliche. We've been hit hard by injuries before and often. Last year some games we had 2-3 forwards out and Peseiro used Sariegui as a forward (which was stupid, because everybody knows Gkoumas is basically a loaded weapon up top, not just headers either, he honestly looked more dangeours than some of our strikers when given a chance)

Remember when PAO had a crazy combination of forwards?

Konstantinou, Lymberopoulos, Olisadebe, Vlaovic, Warzycha?

We were AWSEOME back then, and strikers were no worries. any of the top 4 were good enough to start and perform. We should be shifting our top players down, and replacing them with a lead striker.

this post is the one that makes sense. one more prolific striker please. lets not give up on the young strikers like petropoulos. everywhere he plays he scores. Chaidari,Aigaleo,Ofi, Under-21 nat.team & PAO. You cant teach that boys.

[cyberfish]

Yes, I think we've all been on the same page all along. Keep our existing strikers and bring in one major target man. Bring the striker we can all say he is the best player on the team and who will rack 15-20 goals per season.

But, if I may, I think it would be best to take into account the formation we want to play next year so we don't end up complaining about the wrong players for the wrong system.

Ten Cate wants to play 4-2-3-1. I think it's a good system because we can stack the midfield and also load the opposing box when needed. This system transforms to 4-5-1 when we defend and to 4-3-3 when we attack. It also puts emphasis on wing attack by keeping the fullbacks high (well, it's a bit more complicated than that, but this is the vanilla version). The drawback of the system is that players need to be well drilled on more complex roles, and the skill set of some players needs to be appropriate for their role.

With this system, there is no clear second striker (SS) like in the traditional 4-4-2. Instead, the three AMs attack the box from their area. When the ball is on the right wing, the LAM (or LW) becomes the SS (or fox in the hole). So the wingers must be good on the wing and in the box. The CAM is supposed to lurke around the box behind the two forwards and to become the "fox" when given the opportunity. Karagounis did an excellent job this season in the position that allows him to shine. All three have heavy responsibillity in pressin the defense when we lose the ball. Something Salpi and Gabriel did very well this season, even if his wing game is not as lacy as some of us would like, his work rate allowed him to score, to send in crosses, and to support the fullback with pressure.

On the left, we don't have anyone that can do what's called for. Ivanschitz seemed to exhaust his energy in pouting, Christodoulopoulos tried but didn't do well, and Cleyton can't play on the wing to save his life. As a result, we had Karagounis playing on the left most of the time, Salpi and Roukavina played many games as the CAM/SS and Gabriel/Ninis/Salpi rotated on the right wing.

Mantzios, Roukavina, Petropoulos all rotated at the striker position. All three with mixed reviews. Each has specific strenghts, and none seem to be the complete package for the very important striker position. The striker in this system is called to hold the ball and allow play to develop when he receives it from defense or midfield, and to be the powerhouse in the box when we do end up bringing the ball in from the center or the wings, and to score.

Mantzios does the holding the ball almost perfectly, but his work in the box has been sporadic, and his scoring very spotty. Roukavina needs space and has a hard time playing with his back to the goal, but he was effective in scoring. Petropoulos is just as raw as Roukavina and can't really play well outside the box. But he is he is really good in the box with his power and quickness. Petropoulos is the only one of the three that is a threat in the air. I don't rate Mantzio highly in the air. He is ok, but not what a PAO forward should be.

I wrote all this to make some sense of my transfer strategy.

We need to have three players for the "1" position in the system. The target man. Mantzios/Petropoulos would be fine as back ups but I thing we need someone better. It's been our first transfer goal for over a year now, so I think we'll spend the 8-10m needed to bring someone that opposing CBs wil sweat about. We should make a serious effort for Oliveira. I think 10m should be enough to lure him to Greece and I read in exedra today that we are making an effort. If not Oliveira, someone of the same caliber like Alves, Fred, Goudjonsen, Sice, etc would make me happy. I don't see us stacking more than three strikers on the roster. One powerhouse starter (Oliveira), one good backup (Mantzios), one promising younger lad (Petropoulos)

Now for the other attacking positions behind the striker:

Karagounis is a lock for the CAM spot, but we do need someone to spell him when he can't play or when he tires after 60'. Cleyton and Lazaros can be the backups and I think they'll be better next season.

On the right, Salpigidis, Gabriel, Ninis have done well last season. Sure we could upgrade, but I don't see this as a position of need at the moment. If either Saviola or Palacio can be had, bring them in, but only after filling the other spots of need.

On the left, we don't have anyone. A player like Drenthe would be well worth spending 6-8m for. Sure that's above his market value, but how else would we get him? If not Drenthe maybe Jovanovic.

In all this I don't know where to put Roukavina. I don't think he fits in any of these positions. I think he is a good change-of-pace guy that can come in when we try to hold a score and we need quick counter attacks. So I do think he can be useful in that respect.

[Kojak]

see what we are all looking at is what we want....

it doesnt always work that way.

Does anyone honestly think that at their age Mantzios/Salpi a willing to be backups, and work in rotation....NO!

what does that create...disharmony in the team....id be the first to whinge about game time..and so would all of you as professionals..

yeah we had a crazy combo a few years back...how many trophies did that get us??

Either mantzios/salpi remain consistent forces in the first team lineup...or they move on and flourish there own careers at a club that needs them and starts them....

Yes petropoulo/rukavina can stay as backups...depth...but not mantzio and salpi...its a waste for them as people with families and their own livelihoods to worry about!

if you play with 2 up front they need to be irreplaceable...and compliment each other....if you play with 1 up front (whats reported as ten cates plan) then he has to be the one that bashes finishes heads and makes the defenders triple man mark him every bloody time...

how many of our strikers are the first name chosen in the lineup regardless if they are 70 or 100% fit.....the answers is none.. cause really we could throw either of them in, and say hey..you now what he might score today...or he might not!!

that to me is sad....

[XXX-18T]

can we talk about transfers?

Perhaps mods should separate this topic?

[drakos13]

see what we are all looking at is what we want....

it doesnt always work that way.

Does anyone honestly think that at their age Mantzios/Salpi a willing to be backups, and work in rotation....NO!

Rotation does not mean backup. It just does not mean automatically starting in every single game.

Many players in PAO have done this and even this season, Mantzios as an example who already is a rotation player, even Salpiggidis started on the bench quite a few times.

I remember when we had 4 top class forwards rotating and that worked fine.

We do not have to rid ourselves of Salpiggidis and Mantzios in order to buy a new top striker. This mentality takes us nowhere. They can coexist.

Look at what idiotic deicion ditching Gkekas for Salpi was. Gkekas was the better all around striker but thats not the point - KEEP BOTH OF THEM. Top strikers CAN coexist on the same team.

[athinaios]

I think Salpi is extremely valuable and is a player any team needs. He pressures, and has been assigned to play 3 positions...

He's a flag-bearer, any club needs consientious players like him. He score often enough.

The problem isn't with our strikers.... though I'm not completely satisfied with anyone than Salpi. It's a comprehensive team approach... and how the whole team plays.

Same with a goalie... His statistics also relfect the defense's quality.

[drakos13]

papers names thrown out:

Grafite of Wolfsburg........thats pure fantasy by the Greek papers I'm sure. They really are hopeless.

Julio Cruz is being chased by PAO - which I dont really see why. He's good, but hes already 34 and already started his decline with Inter, how much longer does he have left in him, we need a striker that can play for years to come.

Ricardo Oliveira - I think Betis just signed him this year for a large sum - why so eager to sell him off?

[cyberfish]

Some of the names that have seen the light of Greek papers are out of this world. But this happens every year. Here are the names I collected from all the reports I read last year just for the CF position: Heskey, Kezman, Pizarro, Fuente, Guerrero, Hesselink, Zigic, NIguez, Milito, Dennis, Petrov, Sosa, Peletieri, Borzek, Kalinic, Cvitanic.

We finally bought Sousa who's name did not appear until he had signed.

In January the names got even more outrageous: Baros, Klasnic, Bobo, Oliveira, Fred, Lewandowski, Pantelic, Janko, Falcao, Crespo, Ribeiro, Nilmar, Mouche, Palacio, Kouassi, Sand, Makaay, Kalinic, Barrios.

We finally signed nobody.

It's June 7, and here are all the names I read in connection with PAO's CF interest so far: Grafite, Oliveira, Alves, Dzeko, Baptista, Cruz, Balaban, Fred, Barrios, Voronin, Tamudo, Filomeno, Balsas, Falcao, Trezequet, Lequizamon, Mouche, Sand, Boselli, Tamudo, Carew, El Hamdaoui, Boguski, Ruiz, Mbokani, Pogrebnyak, Iaquinta, Floccari, Pavlyuchenko, Cisse, Pizarro, Lewandowski. Nilmar, Martins

That's 34 names just for CF (and I am sure I missed a few reports), and some of these are just recycled year after year. It's like the horoscope in the newspapers where they just recycle formulaic sentences :LOL: :LOL:

[Euro2004]

Ricardo Oliveira - I think Betis just signed him this year for a large sum - why so eager to sell him off?

Betis got relegated

[cyberfish]

I agree with Drako that chasing Cruiz, who is going to be 35 in the fall, does not make sense.

Except, if we are looking at him as a back up, in a role similar to what he played at Inter last season. There are so many games when we need a goal desperately in the last 10-15 minutes and I would feel good to know we can throw someone like Cruz in the game so when opponents clamp down with 10 men in the box we'll have a good chance to win a header or two and to score.

Besides, he is a free agent.

[drakos13]

If its any consellation, Cruz did hid 19 goals last season (only 3 this season, played a lot less)

I have a feeling he could help us, as long as he's fit and motivated 35 wont matter. But, signing off from Inter to PAO, I have my doubts as to weather he can follow through.

[Kojak]

not sure if this has ever been posted before...but here is a link to an interesting panathinaikos fan blogspot, which i came across..

Panathinaikos Fan Blogspot Transfers 2009

It has very comprehensive and reasonably up to date list of all the players rumoured for pao.

Looking at the list is quite funny..

[XXX-18T]

not sure if this has ever been posted before...but here is a link to an interesting panathinaikos fan blogspot, which i came across..

Panathinaikos Fan Blogspot Transfers 2009

It has very comprehensive and reasonably up to date list of all the players rumoured for pao.

Looking at the list is quite funny..

:LOL:

[drakos13]

Kante is happening.

http://www.contra.gr/Soccer/Hellas/Superle...kos/241488.html

[NikosVazelas]

I believe he is replacing Goumas as the 4th defender... Goumas if still with the team, will prob not get much time on the pitch.... I think depth wise itll be Vyntra Kante Warzyniak Sariegui... ONE MORE CB would be good and what i like about these four is that Warzyniak can play LB and vyntra can play RB..

Very versatile..

[Euro2004]

I believe he is replacing Goumas as the 4th defender... Goumas if still with the team, will prob not get much time on the pitch.... I think depth wise itll be Vyntra Kante Warzyniak Sariegui... ONE MORE CB would be good and what i like about these four is that Warzyniak can play LB and vyntra can play RB..

Very versatile..

Wawrzinyak is on the verge of being thrown out. He failed a drug test so Kante is replacing him.

I bet we don't sign any other defenders after Kante <_<