Summer 2009 transfers

[cyberfish]

It is amazing that with a record number 26k+ tickets sold last summer, the vast majority of the home games had 7-10 thousand spectators on the stands. Almost one in 4 paid for the ticket but didn't go to watch most of the games. It's mind boggling to me. It tells me that the team failed to meet expectations, or expectations were set too high, or that many of these games were not worth watching even if paid for.

As for not wasting time to buy tickets, it seemed to me it's more of a hustle to buy season tickets. A few years ago I called to inquire about buying season tickets for my nephew, and it seemed like such a hustle I gave up. I am pretty demanding though. I want to go online, fill one simple form, use my cc, and have my ticket delivered to my door in a couple of days. Is this too much to ask for? :unsure:

[cyberfish]

I spent the day tearing down the old garage so to rest in the evening I wrote another loooooong piece on the Player Report Cards for the season. I don't wan't to bore you with my drivel, but I wanted to copy my assessment of Tzorvas' playing time:

"Tzorvas 3

One of the fans' favorite players he ended up as the second goalkeeper partly because Galinovic was excellent this year and partly because in the five games he played he collected the ball from the net an extraordinary 7 times (3 goals from Ergotelis, 2 goals from Iraklis, and 2 goals from Bremen in Atnens), some of which were clearly his errors. While no one in the media has spoken about it, it looks like this might be one of the reasons the team might be looking for a goalkeeper this summer."

Maybe we can start some controversy and some fights with all of the Tzorvas fans out there. Bring it on :box: :box: :LOL:

[drakos13]

Im sorry Cyber, but that Tzorvas accusatino is total nonsense.

He let in 7 goals? THIS IS NOT HOCKEY. A goalkeepers number are no reflective of his perforamnce. They are reflective mostly of his defense. Some things, any keeper isnt going to stop. In those games he played PAO was in the worst form (esp defensively) of the entire season.

And he had one questionable error vs Ergotelis, which is equal repsonsiblity of his DEFENDER.

To try and pin that Ergotelis game on him, is lunacy. The PAO defensive line is the worst in a decade, EASILY. Even vs Kavala we saw our defenders ripped to shred by their attackers and Tzorvas was the hero for picking up on their errors with impressive saves I dont expect any young GK to make.

as for Several were his fault? nonsense. I dont remember one single goal that was his fault except for the Ergotelis which was a miscommunication error, which is part defense, part Gk. I've played in both positions, and its definitley a factor.

You couldnt ask for a better number 2 right now. Hes talented, hes capable of the top spt, hes young, and hes willing to be number 2 right now. Replacing him is a terrible idea.

THe only reason he played so little is because Galinovic has been more or less flawless.

[drakos13]

SportDay claims

Kante o Deuteros!

(and writes that the first will be Katsouranis :angry: )

another rumour says Fulop, Sunderalands GK

This club is hopeless... GK's, DM's? Replacing the strengths we have of the team, is not going to help the team. We'll be rebuilding the team from scratch.......Which never gets results, because thats been the plan the last 2 seasons and we keep changing becuase we fail after one....

[NYPAO13]

blaming Tzorvas for some of those games/goals is crazy. did we forget how pathetic the team played in those games?

Rodrigo Palacio striker from Boca Juniors in argentina is being offered a contract.

I dont want anymore of this goalie transfer until we set our needs first. Goalie is not a need. I have no problem passing on the torch to Tzorvas, if he fails we move on.

[cyberfish]

EraSport said there was an OLE article that we made an offer for Palacio, but they also said the report came down withing an hour. He said PAO is not looking for a striker with Palacio's characteristics.

Same report on ERAsport mentioned that Metzelder was offered to PAO and they are really looking into it.

E-sport mentions that Antoniou inquired about Dzeko but was promptly shut down.

This report talks about Santos being interested in Gabriel.

As for Tzorvas, I was only talking about player contributions in the season and not about "potential" or "talent".

The guy could stop penalties while juggling oranges behind his back and I would still think 7 goals in 5 games is atrocious. Galinovic had the same defense in front of him and didn't conceded more than one goal in SL (except AEK). Regarding "potential and talent" I agree that he is a good number 2 keeper and from what I've seen he could grow to be a great keeper, or he could end up another Kotsolis.

[Euro2004]

The latest name to be linked with PAO is Real Madrid's Drenthe.

The 22 year old Dutch left-winger has always been highly rated by HTC and the move could be a realistic possiblity if PAO spalsh out the cash. Reports from Spain and the UK about a month ago claimed that Drenthe was so upset after the Real Madrid fans were booing him that he was crying in the changing room afterwards. Now I've seen a lot of this kid and take it from me, he has the potential to become world class. He's flooped at Real but it's clear that his confidence is low. At an ambitious club like PAO with fans that will adore him he could really flourish. I'd love to have him! (Of course we're linked with so many player it's impossible to take this seriously, particularly as it's a goal.com rumour, but if there's truth in it i'd be delighted).

As for the Tzorvas debate. He's a good 2nd keeper and there's really no need to be searching for another keeper, but he's definitely not good enough to start for PAO from what I've seen.

[drakos13]

7 goals in 5 games is a bit ridiculous Cyber. Keep in mind how statistics actually work, and how easy they can lie when assumptions are placed behind them.

Also 7 in 5 says nothing about the distribution of the goals.

You forget to mention that in 1 game alone, with catastrphe PAO defense gets schooled by a teenager and PAO takes 3 goals. Then, its 4 goals in 4 games (with an atrocious defense mind you) and take away the Bremen game its 2 goals in 3 games etc etc......and thats saying that 2 goals vs Bremen were his fault, when in fact he did a fantastic job keeping it to two, and some games just go into high scores and tempos, and defenses play bad. So many things to account for, all that point to the simple fact. 7-5 is nonsense and irrelevant.

The truth is, put me in the near area at the right time and I can shoot and theres nothing Tzorvas, Cech, or the great Oliver Kahn could do to stop my shot from going in - thats part of football and goalkeeping, and a number draws an inaccurate presumption.

Drenthe? I accept. However, its not very realistic signing at all. :(

If hes emotional like that, then thats a pro, because PAO fans love great players and dont shut up in the stadium, or the airports about it. He'd be met with more support than he could dream of at Real Madrid.

[Kojak]

apart form the odd freak keepers(Casillas,Buffon who were born ready)......the rest all peak in their 30's....

i reserve judgement/critcism on tzorvas until he reaches that stage of his career. For now im happy if he gets short spells in goals every season. Galinovic will be hitting his peak soon. Tzorvas for a keeper still has a heaps of time.

As for transfers, the only website im tracking is pao.gr...all the rest talk utter crap!

[drakos13]

I agree w/Kojak......anything other than PAO.gr is crap.

However, it can hurt to indulge a little bit as a small percent of the news eventually ends up right.

Kante is fairly certain by now is what it seems....but well see.

Drenthe & Mellberg are next 2 on the list according to papers.....We'll see.

[XXX-18T]

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/clubfoot...id=1066215.html

[Crazy]

Pao made an offer to Liverpool for Leto???That is what some greek newspapers are mentioning today and they also have figures with it.6 mil to Liverpool and 700.000 for 3 years to the player.

http://www.contra.gr/press/newspapers/0406...062009/gata.jpg

http://www.contra.gr/press/newspapers/0406...rotathlitis.jpg

Is that true???

[Kojak]

Pao made an offer to Liverpool for Leto???That is what some greek newspapers are mentioning today and they also have figures with it.6 mil to Liverpool and 700.000 for 3 years to the player.

http://www.contra.gr/press/newspapers/0406...062009/gata.jpg

http://www.contra.gr/press/newspapers/0406...rotathlitis.jpg

Is that true???

Of course its true......how else would the greek papers come up with witty headlines...like

Eftise sta moutra tou PAO!!

XILOPITA!!!!

POTE! PRASINOS!

people are kidding themselves if they think these players...who come play for 6months...even 1 season are suddenly PAO or OLY to the bone...hell players who have been with clubs for 15 years show no loyalty....if the money was right and all parties were happy leto would be on the first plane to pao, the same goes for derbyshire or any of the foreigners!!

[Euro2004]

people are kidding themselves if they think these players...who come play for 6months...even 1 season are suddenly PAO or OLY to the bone...hell players who have been with clubs for 15 years show no loyalty....if the money was right and all parties were happy leto would be on the first plane to pao, the same goes for derbyshire or any of the foreigners!!

You're right, but I doubt PAO have put in a bid for Leto. And if we have I can guarantee that he didn't "spit in the face of PAO". As you say most foreign players don't care until they've been at a club for a couple of years at least. Even then most don't care. The Henriksen's and the Djole's are loved and considered legends by our respective clubs because they are the exception. I doubt we're looking at Leto anyway, he's good but remours are that we're now in talks with Real Madrid about a loan move for Drenthe. Personally I don't like the idea of loaning young players unless we have the option to sign them outright for a set fee. Drenthe is class though and I'd love to have him.

I have to say I'm suprised that we aren't back in for Oliveira now that Betis are down. He's proven in La Liga, he gets goals and he'd be great for us.

[drakos13]

This is a retards excuse for a headline - Greek papers are stupid, but I'm never blown away by stupidity as much as I am with Prota8litis. They truly are the most pathetic paper, and it only makes sense that they represent that stupid, populist and sensationalistic audience that one would expect to support OSFP. (No offese Crazy, I beleive in exceptions such as yourself)

Leto 'spit' in PAO's face - sure. And he ended up in 3rd place of his UEFA Cup group, we ended up 1st in our CL group. Oh but he won the league as a bench player - way better I'm sure.

#1- Its 1 year ago, its summer now with endless propsectives of inbound players ---- and is this the best transfer news they have :LOL:

#2 - Leto blows - WHO CARES hes sucked for OSFP and would suck for PAO

#3 - Doubt Leto even knew much about either PAO or OSFP, and Leto understands money and Champions League either way. He spit? Right. A refusal or disagreement on terms is hardly spitting, and I doubt he even knew what the hell Pireaus was until he arrived to sign for OSFP.

#4 - PAO do go after losers, but I'm not sure they bothered with Leto, as they were trying to impress for most of the season with useless names. Leto was a nobody at Liverpool and we all know it.

They did go up against OSFP in signing Lazaros and Avraam and there was no hiding of confrontations there.

[drakos13]

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/clubfoot...id=1066215.html

good find - the interesting part of that article was:

Northern neighbours Lille have reinforced their line-up with the loan signing of Gabon international Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang from AC Milan. The Gabonese frontman is fully acquainted with French football, having just completed a loan spell with second-division Dijon. One African player departing Ligue 1, however, is Mali's Cedric Kante, who has left Nice for a new adventure at Panathinaikos.

and thats FIFA.com - so I think its safe to say Cante is a new CB, I hope hes good!

[NikosVazelas]

I think Leto is a really good LM.. Obviously it helps playing for OSFP when dives get called a little easier and penalties as well..

I actually have a question for cyber since he is our Stats master...

Id liek to know the minutes played per comp and goals scored per player for Salpi,, Ruka, Mantzios, Kara

And include the number of goals on penalties...

Please.. thx...

[NikosVazelas]

and here's an interestign article from sportdog , (a site I find is closer to the truth than most others.... excluding Novasport) anyway... heres the article..

http://www.sportdog.gr/new/article.aspx?id=98327

says Kante is ours accoridng to FIFA, jusr like drakos said....

and it said we may be going after Pizzaro..

My wish list would be as follows...

One more CB, Drenthe, Gudjohnsen, Katsouranis and Seitaridis...

Id be more than happy with those players..

Nilsson, Goumas are gone, goumas will be shortly, and id look to Loan out Ninis for a whole season somewhere and maybe Petropouos too... No use keeping him on the bench.. Unless they sell Mantzios.... who knows...

I really like Moon as a rb.... He played only a handful of games there this season and impressed..

He was our best player vs Inter in the first game and was great as a sub in Werder...

and looked very good in the playoffs where he even scored the winning goal in Larisa...

[cyberfish]

Here you go:

Player---------SL min -- SL goals -- CL min -- CL goals

Salpi------------2498-----12---------748----------3

Rouka----------996-------7-----------102---------0

Mantzios-------1254------4-----------633---------4

Kara------------1713------7-----------709---------3

Petropoulos----731-------7------------0-----------0

Cleyton---------1069-----6------------330--------0

C'poulos--------764-------3-----------224---------0

Gabriel----------1640-----5-----------929---------0

[NikosVazelas]

So petropoulos is our most prolific scorer on average and if u add the cup games in there.. rukas 3 goals in the cup games give him 10 in just under 1200 minutes .. thats a goal a game... average... Petropoulos is just as high..

Interesting...Salpi scored 3 goals more and played 2000 minutes more...

I say keep Petropoulos, Mantzio, Ruka and get a guy like Gudjonhson or Pizarro....

Sell Salpi to soem german team for 4 or 5 million...

[drakos13]

Here you go:

Player---------SL min -- SL goals -- CL min -- CL goals

Salpi------------2498-----12---------748----------3

Rouka----------996-------7-----------102---------0

Mantzios-------1254------4-----------633---------4

Kara------------1713------7-----------709---------3

Petropoulos----731-------7------------0-----------0

Cleyton---------1069-----6------------330--------0

C'poulos--------764-------3-----------224---------0

Gabriel----------1640-----5-----------929---------0

Better double check the raw figures:

http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/verein/265/...startseite.html

You dont really need to know that much German to read the site. Its the best site out there for free.

Mantzios played 1048 mins in Superleague, which is astonishingly low for a leading forward. He played in 14 games however.

As for "goal a game" and statistics like this, they mean close to absolutley nothing in football, if your trying to get into serious forecasting and stastics realm. I agree its interesting to look, you cant draw conclusions from it though.

In order to gage pure effectiveness of the player, the conditions must be equal for every match. Position, roles, form, teamates lineup, opposition, even bizarre things like weather, pitch or simple things like playing home and away -- there are endless lists of important variables that need to be weighed into the equation, which makes using these statistics as basis for an arguement rather pointless.

[cyberfish]

Sorry Drako, I have Mantzios at 1254 minutes.

3-@Aris =injured

4- Ergotelis=45

5- Levadiakos=injured

6- @Paok= 90

7- Iraklis= 90 (goal)

8- @Panionios= 90

9- Olympiakos= 90

10- @Larissa= 90

11- Thrasivoulos=injured

12- Asteras= 0

13- @Xanthi= 60

14- Serres= injured

15- @Ofi= injured

16- AEK= 80

17- @Panthrakikos= 78 (goal)

18- Aris= 90

19- @Ergotelis= 22 (68' in for Melissis)

20- @Levadiakos= 0

21- Paok= 90 (goal)

22- @Iraklis= 90

23- Panionios= 0

24-29 = injured

30- OFI= 69 (goal)

Playoffs

@PAOK= 90

AEK= 90

Rest of playoffs= 0

The dude was injured through 11 games. He scored 4 goals (three of them in games the team scored 3 goals and one in the 2-2 with Iraklis)

I know you are alergic to statistics, and I don't think they tell the whole story either, but Warzycha had amazing statistics even when he looked bad, even when opponents were different, in rain, in wind, with incompetent teamates. No matter how you slice it, statistics do tend to point to trends. And unfortunately with Mantzios, they point to the fact that he doesn't score and that he gets injured.

ADDED: The "transfer market" site does have a little british flag on the top right. Click and you get English. Now that I look at it, their stats are close to mine. Theirs doest not include his 180 minutes in the playoffs.

ADDED: Niko, what are you talking about man? I would sell all the rest and I would keep Salpi B)

[GS1905]

for f**s sake, are PAO and Gala all after the same s%$#!??!! or is it the idiotic press of both countries??!! :( :angry: :(

One day a Greek newspaper says PAO after Drenthe, next day it says on Fanatik we've made a loan bid for PAO..

One day a Turkish paper says GS after Jose Sandt (whoever he is), the next day we see him "just about to sign for PAO" on some shitty Greek paper!

The same goes for Pizzarro as well... :box: :box: :box: :box:

[cyberfish]

^^^^^^ ha ha that's funny. It's probably the fact that player agents float these stories about their player to several newspapers in several countries simultaneously, hoping someone will bite, or to force someone they negotiate with to rush or to increase their offer.

[drakos13]

I know you are alergic to statistics, and I don't think they tell the whole story either, but Warzycha had amazing statistics even when he looked bad, even when opponents were different, in rain, in wind, with incompetent teamates. No matter how you slice it, statistics do tend to point to trends. And unfortunately with Mantzios, they point to the fact that he doesn't score and that he gets injured.

ADDED: The "transfer market" site does have a little british flag on the top right. Click and you get English. Now that I look at it, their stats are close to mine. Theirs doest not include his 180 minutes in the playoffs.

ADDED: Niko, what are you talking about man? I would sell all the rest and I would keep Salpi  B)

I'm not allergic to statstics. I dont like it when people dont understand how to properly use statistics but draw conclusions from them anyways, without accounting for the massive variabilities. Its pseudo-analysis 100%.

You can say "mantzios doesnt score" but you'd be wrong. He does score. He lead us in Champions League goals, and a period of injury and benching put him out of most games. In 14 league games he hit 4 goals. In most of the games he did play, PAO (his teammates who are mega factor in any striker's goalscoring) were out of form, and thats not represnted for in your conclusion. Which makes your conclusion fake.

You can't conclude Rukainva scores indefinitley because he hit several sitters vs inferior teams that had already given up in the game. We saw him step on the pitch in big games and was totally hopeless.

We know by watching on the pitch that Rukavina is lost, misses huge chances, and cannot distribute to save his life. We know that Mantzios finishes his chances and is a very talented player. Yet, we you compare 7 goals to 5, your making a false presumption about the quality of the player's goalscoring ability which was is basically a function of the team's current form and even opponent.

Its not allergy to statistics, its respect to scientific thinking.

Don't beleive me: Here basically the same example as the conclusions being "implied" above.

In one season, Maceij Bikowski scored just as many goals as Rivaldo in the Superleague. (I think it was 7 or 8). Bikowski played in less games and less minutes overall.

Therefore we can conclude Maceij Bikowski is a better goalscorer than Rivaldo.

FALSE.