Summer 2009 transfers

[Euro2004]

we cant buy Cruz and not buy any more strikers. Not this old story again, put all the chips for the season's stike force on one very risky and potentially unfit signing. If Cruz comes, he can be a rotation, We need a fulltime #9.

Cruz being the only striker we'd sign is so predictable. Ridiculous for the reasons you've said, but predictable.

Although I agree that centre midfield shouldn't be the priority, it's clear that Tziolis def isn't good enough for PAO. He's too slow and immobile for a holding midfielder. He offers virtually nothing in so many games and if we do sign someone to replace him I'd be delighted. However if we're talking about the priority of transfers i think it should look something like this:

1) right back

2) Striker # 1 (not Cruz!!)

3) centre back (not including Kante)

4) Left sided midfielder

5) Striker # 2 (may be Cruz)

6) Centre midfielder

[drakos13]

well all the news is about Engelaar, who is definitley very good, but will only marginally increase the teams quality. We have spots on the team that have been aching for replacement for over two years, and consistently ignored.

I agree, Cruz being our only forward would be so typical, to throw all our "chips" into one player with very questionable intentions, fitness and longevity at the club. I'd be quite excited to have him as a #2 forward though.

What ever happened to RBs? Seitaridis is still free, and perfect for PAO right now. We have 4 great DMs. We have 1 ok RB (Moon) but he's got his flaws and off days. I like Moon, but were going to need another RB.

[GS1905]

Turkish media today reported in a few articles that Galatasaray's new manager Frank Rijkaard and Sports Director Haldun Ustunel are on the verge of striking a 2+1 deal with Greek right-back Georgios Seitaridis.

I know for sure that Galatasaray interest in Seitaridis is not new, and it would be a massive boost for our troubled-RB position (we have had to endure Sabri :angry: on that spot for the last 2 seasons ever since Uğur's been injured)

And about Kante, a French colleague of mine informed me that he is of a fighting character and the sort of defender that prefers to throw himself into the ball at every opportunity, maybe what just PAO lacked last season with cool-the-head guys like Goumas, Sarriegui and Gilberto making up the defensive unit.

Turkish press also threw forward that PAO is interested in Galatasaray's out-of-favour forward Shabani Nonda, though I have no trust in that sort of news.

[adonis]

[NYPAO13]

if he gets sold take his money & add it to whatever we were gonna spend on a striker.

I wouldnt be totally pissed if we did that. Maybe Simao & Mattos could play at the same time

[Euro2004]

[drakos13]

[XXX-18T]

[Euro2004]

[drakos13]

Pavlyuchenko is not a realistic target IMO, out of our reach. Remember for some reason nobody wants to come to Greece. Turkey (league actually not as strong IMO as Greece) somehow manages to get these types of players.

Grosso is a downright impossibility. He could easily end up in Italy's top 5 teams, and would have no interest in coming to Greece.

PAO I think is giving a big illusion, that it has big money. We really dont....

[Euro2004]

Pavlyuchenko is not a realistic target IMO, out of our reach. Remember for some reason nobody wants to come to Greece. Turkey (league actually not as strong IMO as Greece) somehow manages to get these types of players.

Grosso is a downright impossibility. He could easily end up in Italy's top 5 teams, and would have no interest in coming to Greece.

PAO I think is giving a big illusion, that it has big money. We really dont....

The reason no one wants to come to Greece is because we don't have any ambitious clubs. Instead of securing players like Pavlyuchenko we're getting a 35 year old Cruz. Instead of Grosso (who will be on the bench this year) we'll get a nobody. It's easy to say "they won't come". If we're serious about getting players, they will come, just like they go to Turkey.

For instance, when Drenthe says that he'd be interested in listening to PAO's offers this suggests he's open to the idea of signing. Then 2 weeks later Antoniou visits and all of a sudden Drenthe isn't interested in coming to Greece? We have to start asking questions as to what happened? If he was never interested he'd have said "No" from day 1 but if he was open to the idea and then says no it leads me to conclude that the problem lies in 1 of these 3 explanations:

1) We haven't got big bucks in which case we need to know what the real ambitions of the club are (none of this "New Chelsea in 5 years" rubbish)

2) The management is inept and tight-fisted approach is what prevents us making major signings

or

3) As a club (management and fans) we have a defeatest attitude: "Pavlyuchenko would never come" or "Grosso is an impossible signing". What about Quagliarella, he ended signing for Napoli. Are they a move attractive proposition? How about Djibril Cisse, is Sunderland more attractive?

The problem is clearly one or more of those things, and in my opinion it's 2 and 3.

I mean let's put it this way: we're all in agreement here that there's no way we'll sign Ruud Van Nistelrooy. The question is why? Consider these factors:

- He's fallen way down the pecking order since the arrival of Kaka and Ronaldo so he's going to leave.

- The favourites to sign him are Tottenham

- He'll be available from around

[cyberfish]

Another reason other players don't come to Greece is because our league is like an elephant cemetery. Once a player transfers here, very rarely do they raise their value and move to a better league. It is guaranteed that their value will decline as soon as they ink a Greek paper. Somehow Turkey knows how to play the game much better. Players who play in Turkey have a good chance of jumping to a bigger club in Europe.

Our club is like a little village enterprise in the big Europe pond. I get the feeling we don't have much clout behind the scenes and I am not sure Antoniou knows how to move in the big-time football manager circles. He might have the vision, but I am not sure he knows how to behave around the round table. It's a matter of attitude and perception. We need to establish an image that shows that we can go after big players and that when they come here they will be happy (ie, be paid on time, not to be asked to get a pay cut, not get egged at the airport after bad results, etc.)

BTW, transfers are not very linear. If a player like Engelar becomes available and we think he might improve the team we can't just wait until we sign a CF first because it's more of a priority. I would not mind seeing a midfield with Gilberto-Engelar as the two DMs. If it makes Panathinaikos a better team I don't mind seeing Simao or Mattos being backups.

I do worry that we don't hear any CF names though. I hope it's because they are good at keeping it a secret.

BTW, it's 4:00 pm EST and ERA sport guy said Dimitris Kaimas will speak about Panathinaikos transfers for about 3 hours at 5:00 :blink: I better go for my bike ride so I can be back on time B)

[drakos13]

Pavlyuchenko is not a realistic target IMO, out of our reach. Remember for some reason nobody wants to come to Greece. Turkey (league actually not as strong IMO as Greece) somehow manages to get these types of players.

Grosso is a downright impossibility. He could easily end up in Italy's top 5 teams, and would have no interest in coming to Greece.

PAO I think is giving a big illusion, that it has big money. We really dont....

The reason no one wants to come to Greece is because we don't have any ambitious clubs. Instead of securing players like Pavlyuchenko we're getting a 35 year old Cruz. Instead of Grosso (who will be on the bench this year) we'll get a nobody. It's easy to say "they won't come". If we're serious about getting players, they will come, just like they go to Turkey.

For instance, when Drenthe says that he'd be interested in listening to PAO's offers this suggests he's open to the idea of signing. Then 2 weeks later Antoniou visits and all of a sudden Drenthe isn't interested in coming to Greece? We have to start asking questions as to what happened? If he was never interested he'd have said "No" from day 1 but if he was open to the idea and then says no it leads me to conclude that the problem lies in 1 of these 3 explanations:

1) We haven't got big bucks in which case we need to know what the real ambitions of the club are (none of this "New Chelsea in 5 years" rubbish)

2) The management is inept and tight-fisted approach is what prevents us making major signings

or

3) As a club (management and fans) we have a defeatest attitude: "Pavlyuchenko would never come" or "Grosso is an impossible signing". What about Quagliarella, he ended signing for Napoli. Are they a move attractive proposition? How about Djibril Cisse, is Sunderland more attractive?

The problem is clearly one or more of those things, and in my opinion it's 2 and 3.

I mean let's put it this way: we're all in agreement here that there's no way we'll sign Ruud Van Nistelrooy. The question is why? Consider these factors:

- He's fallen way down the pecking order since the arrival of Kaka and Ronaldo so he's going to leave.

- The favourites to sign him are Tottenham

- He'll be available from around

[cyberfish]

Ok, I think I missed the report :( what did they say?

[Euro2004]

Pavlyuchenko is not a realistic target IMO, out of our reach. Remember for some reason nobody wants to come to Greece. Turkey (league actually not as strong IMO as Greece) somehow manages to get these types of players.

Grosso is a downright impossibility. He could easily end up in Italy's top 5 teams, and would have no interest in coming to Greece.

PAO I think is giving a big illusion, that it has big money. We really dont....

The reason no one wants to come to Greece is because we don't have any ambitious clubs. Instead of securing players like Pavlyuchenko we're getting a 35 year old Cruz. Instead of Grosso (who will be on the bench this year) we'll get a nobody. It's easy to say "they won't come". If we're serious about getting players, they will come, just like they go to Turkey.

For instance, when Drenthe says that he'd be interested in listening to PAO's offers this suggests he's open to the idea of signing. Then 2 weeks later Antoniou visits and all of a sudden Drenthe isn't interested in coming to Greece? We have to start asking questions as to what happened? If he was never interested he'd have said "No" from day 1 but if he was open to the idea and then says no it leads me to conclude that the problem lies in 1 of these 3 explanations:

1) We haven't got big bucks in which case we need to know what the real ambitions of the club are (none of this "New Chelsea in 5 years" rubbish)

2) The management is inept and tight-fisted approach is what prevents us making major signings

or

3) As a club (management and fans) we have a defeatest attitude: "Pavlyuchenko would never come" or "Grosso is an impossible signing". What about Quagliarella, he ended signing for Napoli. Are they a move attractive proposition? How about Djibril Cisse, is Sunderland more attractive?

The problem is clearly one or more of those things, and in my opinion it's 2 and 3.

I mean let's put it this way: we're all in agreement here that there's no way we'll sign Ruud Van Nistelrooy. The question is why? Consider these factors:

- He's fallen way down the pecking order since the arrival of Kaka and Ronaldo so he's going to leave.

- The favourites to sign him are Tottenham

- He'll be available from around

[adonis]

without quoting everyones comments and making this a huge post,.....i agree with drakos

as a "foreign" player i would pick a team like tottenham 10 out of 10 times over pao and the greek league for the simple reason of premier league football over the chance of a few handful cl games (after we have to qualify)

but i think the greek league itself and organising body has to share some of the blame for this misconception of prestige etc as it does require a revamp.

[XXX-18T]

btw any one have any english links of Juve wanting Gilberto?

I cant find any which could be the Greek media BS

[drakos13]

But like you say, the Greek league is probably better than the Turkish league. Guiza was highly sought after by huge European clubs, as was Aragones (whether they were successful or not is irrelevant). Alex was also sought after, so was Kewell and Anelka, etc.

I think Cyberfish is right, we need to revamp our image

Personally I beleive the Greek league is better than the Turkish league by some margin, not a whole lot though. I feel like Greece's small teams have more "bite" and that typically Greek teams are perfoming better in Europe, aside from Galatasaray's great generation......But not important.

When you sign a player, you have several things that can attract him to the club, league, teammates, coach, country, city, even weather etc. For the most part, things like domestic league, country, city, culture, etc etc that are affecting a players decision are fixed, not changeable by clubs. All clubs have to accept this as advantage or disadvantage when luring a player, and the real variable they can control to weigh the other drawbacks, is money.

This is a normal arguement, that Fenerbahce gets players like Anelka, Kezman, Appiah, Alex, Guiza, Roberto Carlos etc, etc etc.

Why cant PAO? Because PAO has nowhere near that kind of money. For some reason people do not understand in Greece, how much bigger Fenerbahce is than us. They're the bigger club--- literally. PAO cant spend 18 million on one player than give the guy millions, and still have a balanced transfer season. These are players out of our range, plain and simple. They are willing to come to Fenerbahce, because Fenerbahce is obviously having the money to cover what they need to leave the bigger leagues.

You could say Fenerbahce has a bigger fanbase than PAO --- and more fans than PAO, OSFP, PAOK, ARIS, AEK, PANIONIOS combined

As for Aragones - man, he was looking for a job AFTER the Euro- we had already signed our coach before the Euro. PAO did go after big coaches (I forget who was the other one that was saught after, it was like Deschamps or somebody? Still, we went after HTC too. And actually to be honest PAO have gone after respectable coaches, but they've failed to perform, like you said, their reputaion, disregard performance. Malesani and Peseiro were fairly reputable, Malesani moreso.

XXX18T:

The Juve link came from Italian sources originally...

[drakos13]

Apparently were ready to spend 7 million on Engelaar, and looking to land Katsouranis too. We should be spending transfer money on players we seriously need. CB????? ST??? We have no chance of CL this year if we dont have those positions ready by qualification.

[drakos13]

From our Galatasaray Thread, courtesy of GS1905:

Sports Director Haldun Ustunel went to Spain to negotiate to a contract with Giourkas Seitaridis and has offered the player a 2+1 year financial packages worth ?600k a season.

No offense to GS, but that news only makes me furious to see Galatasaray are after this player, when PAO have made zero effort, and since the days of Seitaridis at PAO, he has NEVER been adequately replaced.

Now hes a FREE agent, and our stupid ass management are looking for Katsouranis and other Central midfielders we have no need for when our central midfield selection is easily the best arrangement East of major leagues like Spain, England, Italy + Germany.

Our RB? TOTALLY VACANT.

:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Antoniou go to hell!!!

[Kojak]

Many of you are making the mistake of believing the greek media, who suddenly quote players, as though they have spoken to them brilliant & reliable journalists eg Drenthe.

I find it hard to believe anybody has spoken to drenthe, nor has he made any comments about being happy to join pao, its all a load of bull.

Fair enough Cruz was holidaying in greece, so tracking him down and stalking him for an interview..i can believe.

It has become fashionable these days for greek websites and papers to suddenly make there articles believable to us by apparently quoting them....yeah right in their dreamssssss.....

[drakos13]

Kojak, i know what you mean - i hate it too.

But real quotes and interviews DO exist. The point is, you have to read the article in order to spot BS.

Practically every day there will be something written as if it were a quote, but is not actually a quote.

Its also common in headlines on sportsides and of articles, but when you read what is actually said (if anything) in the article you end up knowing for sure.

Things like <Cruz: "8elw PAO"> are not direct quotes but pMelachrinosrased quotes and interpretation to get your attention.....if you read on you see they did not actually say that inside the story. Anyways....

Direct interviews like with Cruz I beleive are real. This is face to face talk, not heard a la grapevine etc..

As for Drenthe no i doubt beleive he's interested.....apparently according to prasina nea Dutch and Italian media says he is.

[XXX-18T]

http://www.sportdog.gr/new/article.aspx?id=99031

[Clover22]

Pavlyuchenko is not a realistic target IMO, out of our reach. Remember for some reason nobody wants to come to Greece. Turkey (league actually not as strong IMO as Greece) somehow manages to get these types of players.

Grosso is a downright impossibility. He could easily end up in Italy's top 5 teams, and would have no interest in coming to Greece.

PAO I think is giving a big illusion, that it has big money. We really dont....

The reason no one wants to come to Greece is because we don't have any ambitious clubs. Instead of securing players like Pavlyuchenko we're getting a 35 year old Cruz. Instead of Grosso (who will be on the bench this year) we'll get a nobody. It's easy to say "they won't come". If we're serious about getting players, they will come, just like they go to Turkey.

For instance, when Drenthe says that he'd be interested in listening to PAO's offers this suggests he's open to the idea of signing. Then 2 weeks later Antoniou visits and all of a sudden Drenthe isn't interested in coming to Greece? We have to start asking questions as to what happened? If he was never interested he'd have said "No" from day 1 but if he was open to the idea and then says no it leads me to conclude that the problem lies in 1 of these 3 explanations:

1) We haven't got big bucks in which case we need to know what the real ambitions of the club are (none of this "New Chelsea in 5 years" rubbish)

2) The management is inept and tight-fisted approach is what prevents us making major signings

or

3) As a club (management and fans) we have a defeatest attitude: "Pavlyuchenko would never come" or "Grosso is an impossible signing". What about Quagliarella, he ended signing for Napoli. Are they a move attractive proposition? How about Djibril Cisse, is Sunderland more attractive?

The problem is clearly one or more of those things, and in my opinion it's 2 and 3.

I mean let's put it this way: we're all in agreement here that there's no way we'll sign Ruud Van Nistelrooy. The question is why? Consider these factors:

- He's fallen way down the pecking order since the arrival of Kaka and Ronaldo so he's going to leave.

- The favourites to sign him are Tottenham

- He'll be available from around

[cyberfish]

Let's relax and enjoy the sunshine for a while. We already know that big stars that have the option to play for a better league will pick that option even if we pay a little more. Paying much more could put them in some thought but I think even the majority of them would still opt for the better league.

Also, just because a player is free, doesn't meant we can just pick them up. For example we assume Seitaridis wants to come to PAO like crazy. I think returning to Greece would be his last choice. He will wait it out just like Kyriakos did last summer, and only after he makes sure no foreign team would give him a better contract he would consider PAO. The fact that other teams make offers does not mean that Antoniou is to blame, unless you blame him for not shelling out 2m for a player that is worth around 8k.

Apparently the reporters don't have any info and regurgitate what agents and players tell them, or what the agents and players feed to foreign media.