Summer 2009 transfers

[drakos13]

Honestly ive never seen him play so i dont know... But i hope you have seen him and not judging him based soley on stats.

i mean scoring 11 goals in spain is pretty good no?

He's not a big scorer, and he's not wanted by anybody.

We've seen that all before- theres a huge chance hes crap, things dont change with this club that easy.

I hope hes good. But we need established talent, the real thing. Not ifs maybes and inconsistents - weve got those already.

Mate I'm a bit confused about what you think we should aim for. I'm in total agreement with you, I don't want Aduriz and I don't want Cruz. But when I say we should aim for strikers like Pavlyuchenko you say that it's not realistic. Can you give an example of who you think we should sign?

Listen Euro - we have to aim for somebody GOOD, and in our range.

Pavlyuchenko is way out of our range. If he wanted CL so desperately and with a medium-league, he would have stayed in Russia where he could have his pick or even Ukraine. He's more expensive than any player we've ever bought before. You must keep that into consideration. Were talking 14-15 million on the transfer fee alone. His contract will absolutley require several millions for years, and the full value of the deal would easily reach over 20million Euro.

Its just NOT realistic.

Keep in mind Tottenham may suck in Europe but they can outspend us and get players WAY better than we can. The money these clubs are making is a whole universe more than us. Their crap performances in Europe dont let them deceive you.

[Euro2004]

Honestly ive never seen him play so i dont know... But i hope you have seen him and not judging him based soley on stats.

i mean scoring 11 goals in spain is pretty good no?

He's not a big scorer, and he's not wanted by anybody.

We've seen that all before- theres a huge chance hes crap, things dont change with this club that easy.

I hope hes good. But we need established talent, the real thing. Not ifs maybes and inconsistents - weve got those already.

Mate I'm a bit confused about what you think we should aim for. I'm in total agreement with you, I don't want Aduriz and I don't want Cruz. But when I say we should aim for strikers like Pavlyuchenko you say that it's not realistic. Can you give an example of who you think we should sign?

Listen Euro - we have to aim for somebody GOOD, and in our range.

Pavlyuchenko is way out of our range. If he wanted CL so desperately and with a medium-league, he would have stayed in Russia where he could have his pick or even Ukraine. He's more expensive than any player we've ever bought before. You must keep that into consideration. Were talking 14-15 million on the transfer fee alone. His contract will absolutley require several millions for years, and the full value of the deal would easily reach over 20million Euro.

Its just NOT realistic.

Keep in mind Tottenham may suck in Europe but they can outspend us and get players WAY better than we can. The money these clubs are making is a whole universe more than us. Their crap performances in Europe dont let them deceive you.

ok, i understand your point. But you don't want old experienced strikers like Cruz, you don't want strikers that don't have a great goalscoring record, you don't want south americans. So what is it you want, give an example. A cheap, proven stiker that's hungry, gets goals and is European-based is practically impossible to find. So perhaps you can give an example of who you'd want

[cyberfish]

I don't know why Ten Cate wants more midfielders, but I know what I would be thinking if I were the coach.

We usually play with 2 DMs and we play over 50 games per year.

Currently we have Gilberto, Mattos, Simao to cover the two positions. I know we can plug others in the spot, but to me players who play out of position is a huge weakness.

Last season Gilberto missed 8 games for various reasons (injuries, cards, rest, poor form, etc). Gilberto is going to be 33 next season and he will have a busy summer playing for the nt

Last season Simao missed 9 games, and Mattos didn't play in 25 games (9 of them due to injury).

For two positions we should have 4 players. Do I want a "backup" or do I want someone who will compete for the starting job? I want starters thoughout.

Now, having said all that, I do think buying two more does seem a bit much. I am pretty sure that if both Engelar and Katsouranis come we'll sell one of the existing ones.

The most likely candidate to be sold is Simao, purely because he can return better return for the investment made in him. Selling Gilberto or Simao does not make financial sense. At most the club will get back the money they paid. But Simao is like Morris. Bought cheap and can bring a clean million or two. I am not saying I want him to leave, I am saying it make sense to those who invested the money a few years ago.

[Clover22]

I don't know why Ten Cate wants more midfielders, but I know what I would be thinking if I were the coach.

We usually play with 2 DMs and we play over 50 games per year.

Currently we have Gilberto, Mattos, Simao to cover the two positions. I know we can plug others in the spot, but to me players who play out of position is a huge weakness.

Last season Gilberto missed 8 games for various reasons (injuries, cards, rest, poor form, etc). Gilberto is going to be 33 next season and he will have a busy summer playing for the nt

Last season Simao missed 9 games, and Mattos didn't play in 25 games (9 of them due to injury).

For two positions we should have 4 players. Do I want a "backup" or do I want someone who will compete for the starting job? I want starters thoughout.

Now, having said all that, I do think buying two more does seem a bit much. I am pretty sure that if both Engelar and Katsouranis come we'll sell one of the existing ones.

The most likely candidate to be sold is Simao, purely because he can return better return for the investment made in him. Selling Gilberto or Simao does not make financial sense. At most the club will get back the money they paid. But Simao is like Morris. Bought cheap and can bring a clean million or two. I am not saying I want him to leave, I am saying it make sense to those who invested the money a few years ago.

Yeah, like we all give a flying f u c k about the people who invested in these players and how much money they can get back. The fans care about the team being run in a sensible way and the players being treated like athletes, not disposable assets. I don't think he should have been playing 2 defensive mids anyway!

[drakos13]

ok, i understand your point. But you don't want old experienced strikers like Cruz, you don't want strikers that don't have a great goalscoring record, you don't want south americans. So what is it you want, give an example. A cheap, proven stiker that's hungry, gets goals and is European-based is practically impossible to find. So perhaps you can give an example of who you'd want

Finding who you want, includes scratching off who you dont want.

Theres the obvious. You cant buy what you cannot afford. Thats not my decision, thats given constraints.

Who said I dont want Cruz at all? At his age, he would be a risk, and it his price, its simple hysteria - in the total value of the deal, his yearly wage would be as much as Wayne Rooney. It was a total joke, considering the guy was never a mega superstar in all seriousness, to ask godlike wages from a respectable European club at his age of 35 is actually quite insulting to the integrity of the club - the man even said PAO gave him a VERY generous offer (TRUE), and its higher than his other offers.

I would like Cruz - as a #2. He's too old to lead our striking line, and fitness is a huge issue and risk. Every player is different. But do I want Cruz as our leading star striker role as a #9? No. That doesnt mean we cant sign him.

If you seriously want names, heres some off the top of my head. I dont care to go find more at the moment. Players who are realsitic exist. Players who are good for us, and realistic exist. It's not my job to identify them. Its PAE's, so I dont know what you're getting at.

And cheap goalscorer? Who said anything about CHEAP. I said within our constraints. :blink:

You're acting with total and utter indifference to spending capcity of different teams, as if there is only "High" and "Low". A team like PAO canot spend over 20 million on a transfer man. That does not mean PAO cannot spend 7 million on a transfer fee.

A transfer costing in lower price rangers ARE realistic and are NOT impossible to find.

A name to mention now would be such as:

Rick Oliveira

Bobo (who I beleive we can do better)

Uche (not the most frequent scorer, but a good talent)

Upcoming Players from Ukr, Russia, and now Romanian leagues which are growing fast latley- they've got a lot of great talent coming up. Poach them early. I'm not going to make you a list.

I dont have "high goalscoring demands" - just that for a nobody whose 29 and played"rounds" tossed club to club ---you better be able to score. If hes a young player looking to score a career, picture changes, if hes an old player, etc.

I think you are aware that all signings are different, conditions are signficant and you have just oversimplified my "restrictions", and so I am actually going to end it here.

[NikosVazelas]

How old is andruiz?

I think in europe Pao will play with 3 cms... with engelaar pushing up high.. and kar with afree role in front of the 3 with two strikers...

katsuoranis is almost a dead deal. HTC wants engelaar instead

I want two strikers.... And im tired of prospects..

Unless his name is Falcao or Nilmar i dotn want anyone from south america..

[NikosVazelas]

Oliviera is priced at 9 milllion.. way too much for a 30 year old...

[drakos13]

30 year old? 30 is practically prime. More than enough players much better than Oliveira worth more than that and rightfully so. Take Inzaghi or Toni for example.

Also, he's going for less than that.

[cyberfish]

All reports indicate that Oliveira does not have the characteristics Ten Cate wants so they are not looking for Oliveira. It was an old report. I'll sit tight and wait, the striker story will have many episodes before it ends (happily I hope). From all the forwards they have mentioned I want someone like Grafite or Nistelroy. I hope we don't end up with Filomeno :LOL:

[cyberfish]

I agree with Niko that we are not going to buy Katsourani. I played around with some formations, and there is no way I can fit 5 prime DMs in the plan. It doesn't make sense. If we are going to buy Katsourani so we can uload one of our existing DMs I would not like it. We have a formitable midfield and there is not reason to mess with it.

The Engelar addition will add more strength in several areas, including height, strenghth, ball circulation, and through balls from midfield. I suspect Ten Cate will use him as a CM in front of Simao-Gilberto and behind the striker. He will be in place to receive crosses in the box, he will be the first to prevent opponents from organizing out of their defense, and he will have the chance to look for through balls. Ten Cate used Tziolis in that role a few times and the one time Tziolis was on fire we pulled a beautiful win in Bremen. He also used Gilberto in a very high position like that but Gilberto is not used to this role.

Here is a nice video of Engelar. I

[cyberfish]

I've been confused with Engelaar. I thought he was a CM, but apparently he is more of a LM. If that's the case, everything makes sense including going after Katsourani. Here is the player position from transfer market.

I could see a 4-3-3 in our future (or 4-5-1 for the pesimists)

--------------------Galinovic---------------------

Seitaridis----Vintra---Meelberg---Spyropoulos

---------Katsouranis--Gilberto--Egelaar--------

------Gabriel/Ninis--------------Karagounis----

---------------------Van Nistelroy---------------

This would be my plan if I were PAO football manager. It's doable too. 1m for Seitaridis, 4m for Meelberg, 4.3m for Engelaar, 4m for Katsouranis and 15m for Nistelroy. Total expenditures: 28.5m in fees and wages. They said we could go over 20m so a good manager would push it up. 15m for a player like Nistelroy would be a bargain. They can make back the money just from selling jerseys.

That should do the trick. Championship with two 4-0 wins over Olympiakos and Europa cup Semi-final. We'll win it next year. B) B)

[Euro2004]

I've been confused with Engelaar. I thought he was a CM, but apparently he is more of a LM. If that's the case, everything makes sense including going after Katsourani. Here is the player position from transfer market.

I could see a 4-3-3 in our future (or 4-5-1 for the pesimists)

--------------------Galinovic---------------------

Seitaridis----Vintra---Meelberg---Spyropoulos

---------Katsouranis--Gilberto--Egelaar--------

------Gabriel/Ninis--------------Karagounis----

---------------------Van Nistelroy---------------

This would be my plan if I were PAO football manager. It's doable too. 1m for Seitaridis, 4m for Meelberg, 4.3m for Engelaar, 4m for Katsouranis and 15m for Nistelroy. Total expenditures: 28.5m in fees and wages. They said we could go over 20m so a good manager would push it up. 15m for a player like Nistelroy would be a bargain. They can make back the money just from selling jerseys.

That should do the trick. Championship with two 4-0 wins over Olympiakos and Europa cup Semi-final. We'll win it next year. B) B)

Swap Gilberto for Simao and I love it! :tup:

Gilberto is getting on in age. His salary isn't justified and without a break this summer (because of the Confed Cup) he'll suffer physically next year. I was reluctant to let him go but if Mellberg is involved in a swap deal and we can sign Kats and Engelaar then I'd take the deal

[drakos13]

Van Nistelrooy......come on thats not happening. Were likely going to end up with Aduriz or unknown "promising talent" Latin American A, possibly unkown Latin American "promising talent" B.

Well see. I hope we get a "big forward", but PAE doesnt really live up to those promises.

Unfortunatley theres been no serious PAO attempts for Seitaridis. They should just call him, give him a good offer and close it in 24 hours. We all know its a great deal for player and club, just do it already.....

[Steve07]

^^^ The reason Seitaridis is not in a green jersey already is because certain ppl in our management don't want him back from what I'm hearing. The guy wants to come back to PAO and they are dicking him around. Euro that is the exact lineup I was telling some friends I would want for PAO as well lol that would be sweet.

[drakos13]

Dont want him back?

Its been what 5 years now and we still havent been able to replace him.

Maybe after were done signing Engelaar, Katouranis, well go after a few more CMs instead of positions we actually desperatley need.

Who is going to be our RB next year? Moon? I like him but:

Not the best defender

Theres no backup RB - if they think Vyntra is an RB, then its playoffs.

[Euro2004]

According to the Greek media (take your pick on which site you prefer: contra, novasports, sportdog, etc), Olympiakos have agreed a deal for Mellberg. Juve have accepted the bid and they've agreed terms and Mellberg will sign on Friday with Olympiakos!

http://www.contra.gr/Soccer/Hellas/Superle...cos/242509.html

This is unacceptable! Not only are we missing out on him, our rivals are signing him, what a double blow.

[cyberfish]

Yep, I read that and turned my stomach into a knot. If we get Pugrenie and they get Mellberg I will be more than upset.

Reportedly, Mellberg cost to Olympiakos 2.5 million. About the same we paid for Melisis :angry:

[Euro2004]

Yep, I read that and turned my stomach into a knot. If we get Pugrenie and they get Mellberg I will be more than upset.

Reportedly, Mellberg cost to Olympiakos 2.5 million. About the same we paid for Melisis :angry:

What's even worse is that if we'd signed Mellberg, they'd have signed a 35 year old Dragutinovic! With Avraam (who is appalling), Dragutinovic (who is not even an upgrade on Antzas anymore), and Domi who can't defend they'd have been poor at the back again this year. Add to the mixture that they don't want Ledesma back and we are talking about a very vulnerable Olympiakos. Whereas now we've missed out on Mellberg and they've strengthened significantly at the back. This really is disgraceful.

[cyberfish]

I guess we can't win it all. They beat us last year with A. Papadopoulos and we beat them with Cleyton - Christodoulopoulos.

All is not lost if we get a CF that Mellberg won't eat for lunch and if we bring either Durica or Mletzelder.

[Euro2004]

I guess we can't win it all. They beat us last year with A. Papadopoulos and we beat them with Cleyton - Christodoulopoulos.

All is not lost if we get a CF that Mellberg won't eat for lunch and if we bring either Durica or Mletzelder.

I beg to differ. Mellberg is better than both of them and the likelihood of bringing a top class striker is virtually non-existent :tdown: I'm really down about this

[cyberfish]

Well, at least his late report does not say it's final. Judging from this article I think the whole story was generated by this Alecio Seso interview to Protathlitis. So maybe there is still hope. I hope Antoniou is on a plane to Italy with a blank check in his pocket.

I want to scream, but my mind tells me to wait until everything is final. Maybe we'll wake up to find out we signed Van Nistelroy, Mellberg, and Drenthe tomorrow morning :la:

[XXX-18T]

This is a slap in the face to how pathetic the new management is!

If Mellberg does sign for OSFP all Pao fans should wait for Postaniou and beat the crap out of him.

Its not a done deal but if the gays get him they have screwed us big time and we will be relegated to second place again :(

[cyberfish]

Darn it's not a dream. I woke up this morning and the "Mellberg to Olympiakos" reports are still there. Apparently the player has not agree yet so there is still time to react but I doubt Panathinaikos would increase the players wages to land him.

The reaction from the club is the typical one, feeding excuses, or "smoke and mirror" names to their reporters.

"Panathinaikos pulled back from Mellberg and it wasn't for money reasons" is probably the dumbest excuse we've read.

Today they are floating names like Kolotsini. Read this report and laugh. "Kolotsini was suggested to Panathinaikos and they are investigating". What the heck does that mean? But the kicker is the last sentence: "Besides, in the list there are still the names of Navaro and Kribari". Alexandros Mendrinos is probably on Antoniou's payroll :LOL:

I predicted that Antoniou will be fired in the next two weeks. Let's see if my intuition is right.

[adonis]

if kolotsini signs for pao i give up now

that guy is seriously hopeless....i can do way better than him

and im been serious - he is soooooooooo hopeless

like literally

seriously hopeless

[drakos13]

I predicted that Antoniou will be fired in the next two weeks. Let's see if my intuition is right.

unfortunately that Is just Hope, not intuition...