Syriza at the Helm

[Bananas]

11 minutes ago, OlympicHellas said:

Even if Kyriakos does get voted in, the list you posted up of things to do would never be achieved anyway

Well the EU is pushing for some of the items on that list.  It's an embarrassment that the Greek government needs to be forced by the EU to implement reforms.

[RED SHERIFF]

the issue is the greek lao sees these things as 'democratic'..and 'their system'

[RED SHERIFF]

on a side note....Thrylos.....I must admit at least the level of discussion here is somewhat at a higher level..

 

can you believe some of the comments we are reading on the other fb site we are on??  god help Greece if there are people that think like that..and their total lack of political or historical knowledge..

[RED SHERIFF]

4 hours ago, OlympicHellas said:

What fb site is this Sheriff???

As for the anarchists TG7, they've been running a muck all over Greece the last 3 days, the kolopaida

I somehow stumbled on one greece on fb...

thrylos and i are on it...its a feel good site with nice pics of coffee and loukoumades...but a few think they are political gurus but sound worse than a couple of 90yo in a kafeneio in crete..

[Bananas]

Not sure where to ask, so just asking in this thread.

What ever happened to that "list" of 1000 or so names of people with Swiss Bank Accounts etc. ?

[RED SHERIFF]

I was warning many about these commie nut jobs years ago..

 

greece has been hostage to the  ideological left for 40 years..

they have unofficially formed govt. policy and public opinion since 1974

[Bashibozuk]

1. At www.politico.eu/article/eu-watchdog-probes-possible-misuse-of-refugee-funds-in-greece we read that

The EU’s anti-fraud watchdog is investigating the potential misuse of EU funds meant to provide food for refugees in Greece, a spokesperson for the agency said Tuesday.

The news follows the detention on Saturday of three journalists from Greek newspaper Fileleftheros following a libel suit filed by the country’s defense minister about an article alleging mishandling of EU funds meant for reception centers for migrants.    ….......

According to the Fileleftheros article, businesspeople close to far-right Defense Minister Panos Kammenos received some of the EU funding through contracts for matters like catering and plumbing. The newspaper said some businesses routinely overcharged for such contracts and often did not participate in competitive tenders.

Last year, NGO SolidarityNow submitted a petition to the European Parliament asking for a probe into the potential mismanagement of money intended to help refugees in the country. The organization pointed to poor living conditions for refugees and the fact that Greece has received substantial funds from Brussels to improve its asylum system.

2. According to Potami (a small Greek party); translation/ from the Greek text by bibi.

From 2015 up to now more than 1M+ refugees and migrants [(R/M)s in what what follows] entered Greece.

The (R/M)s end in camps that cannot serve so many people. Example: In Moria/Lesvos 10K (R/M)s are kept in facilities which cannot serve more than 3K persons.

The result is non-existent hygiene, inadequate medical care, daily incidents of excessive violence and incidents of rape which involve children as well.

To face this crisis Greece received 561 millions through the national funds and 1050 millions through emergency funds. Greece spent 916.3 of the 1050 emergency funds and only153M of the 561M.

Part of the spent monies were spent by the Greek ministries. The Europeans could not understand how and why were spent. Example:

The ministry of Defense received 99.9 millions and the ministry of Health received 27.45 millions (years 2016-2017).

The Europeans cannot understand (1) how these funds were spent (2) by whom and (3) how the receivers of the funds were chosen.

3. I am of the opinion that the Europeans fail to understand that Kαμμένος, and not only he, is a patriot and as a patriot must first help his fellow Greeks and then, if any monies remain, he will spend them for other purposes.

[Pepito]

On a related note, "Make Greece Great Again" hats are available for sale.

Somehow Tsipras' swamp looks identical to the Trump swamp which looks like the Putin swamp.  Full circle.

[Bashibozuk]

In the Guardian (09/26/2018) we read

Quote

Lesbos refugee camp at centre of Greek misuse of EU funds row

European anti-fraud agency investigates irregularities after report alleges defence minister benefited from camp funds

Tensions mounted after the defence minister, Panos Kammenos, filed a defamation action against three journalists, including the editor-in-chief of the Fileleftheros daily, after the publication of a report alleging misuse of EU funds. Kammenos, who heads the leftist-led government’s junior partner, the right wing populist Anel, accused the newspaper of defamation after it linked him to businessmen who had benefited from funds intended to improve living conditions in the camp.

........... “Asylum seekers are expected to live in conditions that do not meet humanitarian standards. Approximately 84 people share one shower. Approximately 72 people share one toilet,” said the IRC report. “The sewage system is so overwhelmed that raw sewage has been known to reach the mattresses where children sleep, and flows untreated into open drains and sewers.”

........................... Kyriakos Mitsotakis, said in a statement. “Greece has received €1.6bn in funding and the government has created the worst refugee and migrant camp in the world … instead of apologising the government is intimidating and persecuting anyone who is critical of its actions.

Today we can read in the iefimerida (in Greek, self translated, somewhat ungrammatical):

Quote

"Bombs" was launched by the Director of the Migration Policy Department, Andreas Iliopoulos, for the government's immigration policy.

Dimitris Vitsas, deputy general of the Minister of Immigration Policy, admits in the newspaper "Phileleftheros" that there are indications of widespread mismanagement of funds by both the state mechanism and NGOs that manage Community funds. He says "that control has been lost, chaos prevails," and that the islands will soon resemble Edomeni.

It urges the European and Greek Authorities and Prosecutors to look for evidence and to carry out extensive research. At the same time, there is an alarm about the dangers of thousands of refugees and migrants in the plight of the Reception Centers under the responsibility of the government.

[Bashibozuk]

Greece has signed agreements with the EU. As a result Greece received EU-money. Greece is accused to be governed by a bunch of thieves who pocketed much of the money and ignored the terms of the signed agreements.

As for the rest, Greece has a government elected by the Greek citizens. When it signs an agreement, its signature must have some value.

[Bashibozuk]

The Greek press (https://www.in.gr) claimed (in Greek) that Greece has signed agreements with the EU. As a result, Greece received EU-money. Greece is accused of being governed by a bunch of thieves who pocketed much of the money and ignored the terms of the signed agreements.

Moreover "the SYRIZAN government has received from the European Union, from 2015, about EUR 1.6 billion for the management 65,000 refugees in the country.  Turkey received 3 billion euros for 3 million (three million) refugees on its territory.

Well, up to now, we were told   "'........Greeks bearing gifts!".   Now we have  passed to a higher level:

"Give the Greeks billions and they will make them disappear into pockets unknown to all but the Greeks"..

 

[athinaios]

we're talking about human beings here, right?

when they arrive by boat, barely making to shore, what do you do? sink their boat? shoot them?  

can't even take them back because Turkey doesn't want them...

granted, I'm not an expert on this kind of migration, but I think Greece could settle them in areas where hands are needed for farms, construction, etc.; revitalize the countryside, etc.

some stories, here

 

[Bashibozuk]

There is the processing the refugees and the resettling of the refugees. The second is not cheap. In the US it costs 64K. The processing is on comparison cheap.

 

Moria,Lesvos

 

 

A different picture will be seen if one googles “Kilis Turkey refugee camp”, sees the photos, and reads the comments of the visiting EU inspectors.

[Bashibozuk]

 

Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/27/immigrants-greece-winter-crisis-public-sector-cuts-un-envoy has a few pictures and comments about the 1.6 euro billion Greek accommodations

 

…........  Senior European sources are appalled by the camps, especially Samos, where 4,000 people are living in wretched conditions at the Vathy reception centre, six times above capacity. .

….....One consequence is that few asylum seekers and migrants are being returned to Turkey, a possibility created by a controversial EU deal with Ankara in 2016.

Note (mine): The diplomats quoted in the article are not blaming anyone. As a rule, the diplomats try to solve the problems without blaming anyone.

 

[Pepito]

On 11/25/2018 at 11:52 AM, PAOTHEGREAT said:

It's impossible to take care of almost 70 thousand refugees for 1.5 billion dollars....that's peanuts.   7 thousand refugees in Toronto Canada cost 100 million dollars in 2 years,  and they have depleted our resources,  and Canada is a rich country.  All the shelters are full,  and winter is approaching.   In the summer months all the colleges residents had refugees living there....that's 7k compared to 70k in Greece.   CLOSE THE BORDERS!!!

 

It looks like somebody has flunked math in highschool. 7,000 refugees cost $100M - that's CAD 14,285  (USD 10,742.32) per refugee in Canada. 65,000 refugees in Greece get €1.6 billion, that's €24,615 per refugee or USD 27,800.67. That's a lot of money that Greece gets with the sole purpose of absorbing 65,000 people. Compare that to what Turkey gets to absorb 3 million refugees (approx. €1,000 per refugee) . Of course what the Greeks do with the money is a totally different story. For that kind of money Greece should be asking for more refugees - provided of course they don't make the money disappear in somebody's pockets.

Greece could absorb more refugees while at the same time benefit their economy. Of course they won't because of corruption factors.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Pepito

[Hudson]

The worst thing Greece can do is to keep them in squalid camps or in ghettos. This is how you bread radicalism and a perpetual crisis.

Many of those refugees want to work and be normal. Greece's countryside is deserted. Sure, why not give them farms, or other opportunities to integrate. Why do you fail to see that if there's room (and most countries do have room), a few thousand new immigrants can be very beneficial to the economy.  It's not a zero-sum game, nor the economic pie is fixed--this is a big misconception. New workers are also consumers; they spend money because they need food, clothing, housing, etc.

As to the comment .."in a 100 years they'll take over by starting a civil war..."    it's ridiculous, unless, of course, you do exactly what you want... keep them in a ghetto, impoverished, and no options but to resort to crime.

[Bashibozuk]

I fear that the subject of this thread is not well defined. Namely

1. There is the process that decides who is a true refugee and

2. There is the process of locating/relocating the refugees.

 As of now, the Greek politicians are accused of misusing/stealing funds for 1) above.

On 31 May 2018, the European Commission reported that 34 689 asylum seekers have been relocated from Italy and Greece to other States participating in the relocation process.

Among the 34 689 asylum seekers relocated:

• 12 690 have been relocated from Italy

• 21 999 have been relocated from Greece

According to the Commission's document, commitments legally foreseen in the Council Decisions amount to 98.255 asylum seekers to be relocated (34.953 from Italy and 63.302 from Greece) over 2 year.

Elsewhere (January 2018) we read

How Greece got to grips with a relentless refugee crisis

ATHENS — In August, the European Commission announced a 209 million euro ($245 million) emergency support package to provide cash assistance and rental housing for refugees in Greece. Pegged as a “game changer” by the Commission’s head of humanitarian aid, Christos Stylianides, the Emergency Support to Integration and Accommodation package came in part as a response to strong criticism over living conditions in Greek refugee camps.

“The aim of these new projects is to get refugees out of the camps and into everyday accommodation, and help them have more secure and normal lives,” Stylianides said at the time.

I need to state that I knew a man who divorced his wife in order to marry one of his mistresses. Some years later his ex-wife remarried and he was really upset. How, he asked, did the “Jezebel” dare to be in bed with another man?

In time I understood that God was schooling me in order to understand that migrants (and their descendants) can expect that the void they created would not ever be filled.

[Bashibozuk]

A scandal came to light in Greece. Namely:

1. Mr Pappas is a Syriza insider
2. Mr Petsitis was/is a friend of Mr Pappas
3. In 2013 Mr Petsitis was a waiter in a pizzeria and his annual income was 5,000 euros
4. In 2017 he was an employee of ELFE - Lavrentiadis and his annual income was 205,000 €.

[Bashibozuk]

Beware!

The dogs do not like the cynics.

[Bashibozuk]

In the Greek press

https://www.iefimerida.gr/news/468762/spiegel-oi-ellines-stelnoyn-me-ta-esoroyha-prosfyges-piso-stin-toyrkia

one can read how Greece nowadays conceives being part of Europe:

"The Human Rights Watch organizationhas recorded 24 push-back operations at the Greek-Turkish border in December, according to which Greek police officers partially assaulted the refugees, robbed them and, despite the very low temperatures, pushed them back with their underwear back to Turkey .........

Note:  I would prefer to post stories, such as the one above, in Greek.  The "post in English" rule of Phantis makes no sense.  Because,

1) Shortcomings in Greece can only be corrected but the Greeks. 

2) The "post in English" rule forces me to abet and succor those who dislike the Greece and/or the Greeks.