Greek - Russian Relations

[Koro]

Greece appears to be improving relations with Russia. What are your guys thoughts on this?

 

I think this has its positives, but it also could have negative implications. Personally its anyone but the Germans at the moment. Perhaps Greece's fear of pissing off USA/NATO could stop this from developing.

[Giourkas]

I would not put my hopes in Putin. The man is a gangster.

[Koro]

Hopefully i can get a Russian girlfriend as a result from this.

 

Well its funny you mentioned that Pana because I've heard some people joking about them sending loads of Russian bitches over to Greece if we become allies. So maybe your in luck if Russian girls are your thing mate.

[CHE21QNS]

They actually do have such a set up in place already. They send foreign exchange girls/employees...They're called pornes. loll

Edited April 8, 2015 by CHE21QNS

[Genome]

I think priority right now is regaining some credibility, after months of saying one thing and doing something completely different the next day. About Putin: I really don't see this guy pumping huge amounts of cash in Greece knowing that, in maybe six months or a year, there could be a new government in place with a different geopolitical view.

 

Financial problems aside I think Greece would do good not to blindly follow the EU and its sanctions vs. Russia. But there is only so much Greece can do from within the "family", especially given its economic dependence...

[Koro]

They actually do have such a set up in place already. They send foreign exchange girls/employees...They're called pornes. loll

 

Well yeah, you sound like you know more about this than me CHE. hehe

[Irlandos]

Greece should cultivate closer ties with Russia and provide them with a base on one of our islands facing Turkey with plenty of anti-aircraft batteries. :rolleyes:

[Lazarus]

Greece should cultivate closer ties with Russia and provide them with a base on one of our islands facing Turkey with plenty of anti-aircraft batteries. :rolleyes:

You mean just like Ukraine did with the Russians by offering Crimea as a base before in was annexed? :la: Which island would you like the Russians to annex? :box: I suggest you reconsider this idea. :huh:

 

I think mingling with Putin's Russia is bad news. But I do not have any high expectation from Tsipras and his government - it's more like let's all hope some miracle happens. I don't see him retaining his "Prime Minister" hat for very long.

[CHE21QNS]

Greece should cultivate closer ties with Russia and provide them with a base on one of our islands facing Turkey with plenty of anti-aircraft batteries. :rolleyes:

 

That island also exists. It is called Crete haha In all seriousness Russia could be a huge asset especially considering their small rivalry with Turkey in recent years. But like Lazarus points out, oxi polla polla , only use them as a poker chip

Edited April 8, 2015 by CHE21QNS

[Giourkas]

I would of used Russia as a bargaining chip in meetings with Washington. Negotiations in the White House would be way more fruitful than any in the Kremlin.

But I suppose Tsipras would rather undertake his spiritual pilgrimage in the East...

[Bananas]

Doing anything with Russia on a government or military level is never going to happen.  The best we can hope for is getting some private Russian money to be invested in Greece to help with employment, or maybe some sort of increased trade.  All the rest is hyperbole.

[pash]

Russia's economy is in freefall and their army needs tow trucks to bring their armor to bear. This recent trip is very ill thought-out, even if it is only for posturing. Greece stands to gain little from dealing with an insipid dictatorship ruled by a pariah.

 

Russia, on the other hand, might get some benefit out of playing Greece against its allies - you know, those countries that actually work together instead of annexing.

[Irlandos]

I can't believe what I am reading here!

Are you guys a bunch of amerikanakia or what???

A nationalist Russia always has been a natural ally of Greece and a natural enemy of Turkey. Those historic ties need to be cultivated.

Russia may not be able to offer much at this point but, I think, if the chips were down, Russia would do us more good than the EU and the US.

[pash]

Russia looks out for Russia. They don't give two shits about Greece, I can guarantee you.

[Koro]

 

Are you guys a bunch of amerikanakia or what???

 

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Irlandos. You should have seen how pro-Yank some of the guys became on GS whenever anyone brought up Russia.

[js1000]

You mean just like Ukraine did with the Russians by offering Crimea as a base before in was annexed? :la: Which island would you like the Russians to annex? :box: I suggest you reconsider this idea. :huh:

 

I think mingling with Putin's Russia is bad news. But I do not have any high expectation from Tsipras and his government - it's more like let's all hope some miracle happens. I don't see him retaining his "Prime Minister" hat for very long.

'annexed' something that was historically theirs without a shot being fired, when the west bombed serbia for 78 days(hitting the chinese embassy, schools and hospitals in the process) in order to secure an independent kosovo no one in the west mentioned the term 'annexed'

by the way its the germans and the EU that have mooted the idea of taking a greek island as debt repayment.  

 

 

Russia looks out for Russia. They don't give two shits about Greece, I can guarantee you.

 

 

and what have the EU done for greece ? are they looking out for greece ?? or demanding austerity, impoverishing our people and dictating when people should retire and what services should be cut and forcing us to charge our own people obscene property taxes in order to pay a debt that the those being asked to pay(the people) did not benefit from the loans.

and what do other EU citizens think of us ?? they think of greeks as lazy tax dodging work shy and incompetent because thats the narrative they've been fed by the western media.

[Lazarus]

'annexed' something that was historically theirs

What's your definition of 'historically'? The fact that it was under Russian control from 1783 - 1954 ? The Dodecanese were part of the Ottoman Empire from 1522-1912. Do you think that the Dodecanese belong 'historically' to the Turks? Do you think the Turks will deservedly annex them? The fact is that Crimea was a part of Ukraine after 1954. Epirus incorporated into Greece after the First Balkan War of 1912?1913. Do you think Albanians can justifiably lay claim on Epirus?

 

 

by the way its the germans and the EU that have mooted the idea of taking a greek island as debt repayment.

Sure, anybody can say anything. I don't recall Angela Merkel or Francois Hollande giving an official interview on the subject matter though. Media sensationalism should not create political opinions, but unfortunately is does.

 

and what do other EU citizens think of us

Yes, it's a war of words, and public opinion is key. However I don't see us helping ourselves with electing a leader like Tsipras heading a party like SYRIZA.  They are in shambles and don't even have a unified political position. Let's not blame others for our inability to function as a nation. Let's not blame others for the fact the we do not have political leaders capable of carrying Greece out of this hole that was dug by our own corrupt politicians. We (the Greeks) have to find the will to get through and decide what it is that we want as a people. (Then we can start blaming the ...Germans  :box: )

[Bananas]

I think everyone needs to open their eyes.  Every nation looks out for it's own interest ... full stop.

 

As for Russia itself, it's hardly in a position to help Greece.  Maybe some trade might come of it (and that would be a good thing) but that's about it.

 

I still think Tsipras visit is worthwhile if only to increase what little bargaining power he has with the EU.

 

And yes, Putin is a megalomaniac.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Bananas

[RED SHERIFF]

'annexed' something that was historically theirs without a shot being fired, when the west bombed serbia for 78 days(hitting the chinese embassy, schools and hospitals in the process) in order to secure an independent kosovo no one in the west mentioned the term 'annexed'

by the way its the germans and the EU that have mooted the idea of taking a greek island as debt repayment.  

 

 

and what have the EU done for greece ? are they looking out for greece ?? or demanding austerity, impoverishing our people and dictating when people should retire and what services should be cut and forcing us to charge our own people obscene property taxes in order to pay a debt that the those being asked to pay(the people) did not benefit from the loans.

and what do other EU citizens think of us ?? they think of greeks as lazy tax dodging work shy and incompetent because thats the narrative they've been fed by the western media.

 

 

it's our own 'systems;' that got us in the s%$#!...

[Genome]

i don't believe this is anywhere as damaging as greece's overt & covert support for serbia during the yugo wars and kosovo, but one needs to ask, what good did that do us 25-20-15 years on? 

 

Serbia was one of the first countries to recognise FYROM under the name "Macedonia"... so there's that.

 

I think everyone needs to open their eyes.  Every nation looks out for it's own interest ... full stop.

 

Exactly! In today's geopolitical climate and given the everchanging governments and even ideologies this is pretty much it. Russia (or any other nation for that matter, like the United States of Europe ...) may use the Greek crisis for its own interests - not because we are bound by religion, culture, history and what not. This has little to do with being an amerikanaki.

 

Sure it's more romantic to think that the Orthodox brotherhood is going to come and save us but that's just not going to happen.

[RED SHERIFF]

post of the century...

 

not much more needs to be said really.....

[Giourkas]

^ here here!!!

[pash]

VERY well said, aek66. Agreed on all counts.

[CHE21QNS]

I can't believe what I am reading here!

Are you guys a bunch of amerikanakia or what???

A nationalist Russia always has been a natural ally of Greece and a natural enemy of Turkey. Those historic ties need to be cultivated.

Russia may not be able to offer much at this point but, I think, if the chips were down, Russia would do us more good than the EU and the US.

 

 

It is not certain that they would do us more good than the US and EU. I live in the US but anyone here who knows my posts know's I'm anything but an Amerikanaki. Fact of the matter is, even if aligning our selves with Russia was better, having bad relations with the US, NATO, and EU has the potential to be much more destructive for Greece. There will be a lot of western backlash if Greece decides to align itself with Russia and things can get very heated, very quickly, so Greece has to be careful not to make moves that are too sudden. Lets not let our personal opinions regarding the US and Russia interfere with our ability to judge which situation is best for Greece , or in this case less destructive. 

 

 

I think it is good to have good relations with Russia. A natural gas pipeline, and allowing them to fix their ships in our yards can work to our advantage. Also having them in our back pocket when negotiating with the EU and EZ is essential. Other than that Greek society is too intertwined with the Western world. Fact of the matter is we are too dependent on them financially. Aside from our exposure to their financial institutions like their banking systems and stock markets, we depend on them for imports and exports. The biggest issues we will run into is problems with big Pharma companies who we are already having issues with because of the amounts of money we owe them. The EU has helped push these companies to continue supplying Greece as well as make many drugs cheaper for Greece to purchase.

 

Lets look at the numbers:

 

 

One of Greece's biggest problems is that we import TWICE as much as we export. Exports being at around 33 Billion and imports at around 60 billion (from 93 billion in 2009). 

 

Here are the countries we rely the most heavily for our Exports: Turkey 11%, Italy 8%, Germany 6.4%, Bunkers 6% , Bulgaria 5%, and Romania, US, UK, Cyprus as well. (Turkey has gone up since the recession)

 

Now Imports: Russia 11%, Germany 9.5%, Italy 8%, Saudi Arabia 5.1%, China 5%, France 5%, Netherlands 5% (Russia has gone up since the recession)

 

 

Now the most important part in my eyes: After petroleum ( Around 35%)  the most important Greek Import is MEDICINE, which accounts for 7% of our imports. 

 

Who exports the most Medicinal products??  Germany 14%, United States 11%, Switzerland 9%, France 8%, and UK 6-7% 

 

 

 

So things aren't as simple as they may seem and if you analyze things long enough you will realize that acting too drastically has the potential to be destructive especially at a time where Greece is so vulnerable. The bottom line is an independent Greece (as well as most of the world) has never served the interests of the world powers. Our location is too strategic for any powerful country , even Russia to really be interested in our long term political independence. Their ultimate goal would be to spread their influence into the Mediterranean, and in essence if such a move is hastily made, you can make the mistake of trading one pimp for another (a possibly worse one at that).

 

Great post AEK66, there is no place for romanticism in politics especially not in discussing this pseudo-brotherhood with the Serbs and Russians.  

Edited April 10, 2015 by CHE21QNS

[Koro]

 

it was the uk, that saved our bacon, with ships and political pressure.

 

in fact, after this humiliating loss in 1898, greece looked to england and france to modernize it's military...along with germany belgium to educate it's officers - who would soon lead the greek military to it's greatest military expansion in modern history. it was the english and americans that gave the nod to venizelos to test the limits of greek nationalism in 1919, not the russians.

 

 

I see you talk about the British very positively aek66. I however view Britain back then as little better than thieves and colonial oppressors.

 

For me no one has helped Greece that significantly, I know Russia, France and Britain sent over a few ships during the civil war to blow up some Egyptians, but that was a long time ago and all three of those countries have changed a lot.

 

The EU is only concerned about the ?, Britain likewise and David Cameron even wants Turkey to join the EU, the USA armed Turkey's invasion of Cyprus, Serbia is just mental war criminals bullied by Clinton and Blair and are always supporting their fellow Slavs in FYROM first. Russia has regressed under Putin's mafia-Jew run capitalism and even as the USSR was pretty frosty. Having said that Greece and Russia has had relatively friendly relations in terms of trade and arms, when you consider Greece is in NATO.