EURO 2008: Greece - Malta

[Athens4]

e einai m#$%!s o germanos. ton kapsi re?? eleos. as paiksoun kai oi fratzeskos, maxlas kai nikolaidis.

[paxiotis7]

why would he call kapsis. I would of thought of these games and tryouts for some of our youner players. Come on otto, try some new players, we no wat kapsis is capable of.

[plato-ny]

^ I think Rehhagel wants to win both matches to further silence his critics and get 31 points. Charisteas wont play in either match because of injury.

[DUDE]

^ I think Rehhagel wants to win both matches to further silence his critics and get 31 points. Charisteas wont play in either match because of injury.

But his critics claim that he sticks with the old guard and never gives youth a chance, so this is hardly silencing his critics. We are going to get arse-raped at Euro 2008, mark my words, we have another Confederations Cup on our hands!!! What damage would it have done to call Tavlaridis instead? St Etienne are going well this year, especially at home, why not give him a chance? He's preferred a defender that plays in Cyprus to one that plays in France! Eleos!

Aren't any of the Greek journalists quizing him about this?

[cyberfish]

I think Otto values continuity, loyalty, unity, and preserving team chemistry above everything else.

Calling new players just to try might interfere with these values. He has won consistently even with a traditional loser team like the Greek NT used to be, and he does well to stick to his way of doing things.

And it's not true that he does not call new players. He won the Euro with a team and justifiably he preserved this winning team in the next competition (the World cup qualifiers, which did not work out well). Since then, he has renewed the NT changing almost half the players, and even changing tactics.

Some of the critisism he gets is unfounded, and in some cases people overreact. We just stamped our ticket to only the third Euro Championship in our history and we complain about really mundane issues. It's not the end of the world if he does not call this or the other player.

Edit: Dude, I'll take Otto's opinion on football over ANY Greek sports journalist :gr:

[DUDE]

I think Otto values continuity, loyalty, unity, and preserving team chemistry above everything else.

Calling new players just to try might interfere with these values. He has won consistently even with a traditional loser team like the Greek NT used to be, and he does well to stick to his way of doing things.

And it's not true that he does not call new players. He won the Euro with a team and justifiably he preserved this winning team in the next competition (the World cup qualifiers, which did not work out well). Since then, he has renewed the NT changing almost half the players, and even changing tactics.

Some of the critisism he gets is unfounded, and in some cases people overreact. We just stamped our ticket to only the third Euro Championship in our history and we complain about really mundane issues. It's not the end of the world if he does not call this or the other player.

Edit: Dude, I'll take Otto's opinion on football over ANY Greek sports journalist :gr:

Re file are you really trying to justify Kapsis' call up over Tavlaridis'? He has only changed half the team since the Euro's because of necessity. Vryzas could not run anymore, Fyssas was ridiculously bad against Turkey and was on the bench at Hearts, Zagorakis retired (and he still tried talking him out of it!). Now I'm not saying that wholesale changes are a good thing. I believe that change should be gradual, but Otto over does it. Yes we've qualified, but from a very poor group (perhaps the poorest of all).

Tavlaridis has been great in France in recent seasons, he at least deserves a decent chance. Instead Otto has preferred to go with Kapsis and Anatolakis. :blink:

He is known for making such stubborn mistakes. On Wikepedia for example the author writes:

"The backbone of his teams are usually older, more experienced players, talents rarely find themselves taking responsibility. Under him, even the young Michael Ballack often sat on the bench as a substitute."

I am all for mixing experience with youth, but Otto is a man that can't let go. I have been a fan of Kapsis for many years and when Olympiakos let him go I was the first to protest, BUT, how can a man that has been playing for APOEL in the last couple of years be in this squad? He plays against Doxa Katokopias & APOP every week, how on earth will he adjust against strikers like Henry, Luca Toni & Klose? I'm not saying journalists should pick the team for him, but don't they even ask for an explanation? I want them to ask him the questions I've posed here and see his response. Yes, he has acheived great things, but he is not infallible file. He has only ever changed things when something embarassing has happened... i.e. failing to qualify for the W/C, the Confederations Cup saga, & the demolition at the hands of the Turks. Do we have to endure yet another humiliating campaign at Euro 2008 for him to consider a couple of younger players?

[plato-ny]

Some of you talk about Greece getting "arse-raped" and humiliated at Euro 2008. Greece was one of the oldest teams in Euro 2004 and won it all. France and Italy were amongst the oldest teams at WC 2006 and both made it to the final.

How many Greeks wanted Otto's head on a platter after the Turkey loss and look where Greece is right now. He reformed the team more or less and had a series of positive results including a historic first official win in Turkey which qualified Greece for Euro and pushed Turkey to near-elimination.

So, now, Otto wants to win both matches and get 31 points and further silence those critics who said Greece would be the first Euro Champ to not defend their title or barely qualify. As far as being in a "weak division", consider that of the 7 divisions, 5 are led by non-superpower teams (Greece, Croatia, Romania, Poland, Scotland). But, in fairness, Poland's division, has been the most tightly contested with Portugal, Finland, and Serbia.

Before mentioning that those first-place teams, except Greece, play superpowers, are we suppose to conclude that those first-place non-superpower teams are really that good or that the superpower teams they play against are not so strong? Norway are a not a superpower team and might be seen as the "weakest" second-place team but consider that, in our division, third-place Turkey and fourth-place Bosnia are better than some of the other third and fourth place teams. As far as "easy" divisions, look at the ones being dominated by Spain/Sweden and Germany/Czech Republic.

Also, when Greece won their division in EC 2004 qual., many said that Greece won an "easy' division because second-place Spain did not play well and third-place Ukraine were an average team. Well, guess what happened afterwards?

Otto deserves criticism for Wc 2006, Confederations Cup 2006, and the losses to Albania and Turkey. Even though his callups and formations are odd, he has done more good than bad for the NT and thats better than any coach B4 him.

[AEK-MTL]

Some of you guys need to relax. Kapsis won't see 1 minute of action against Malta or at Euro 2008 for that matter. Everyone knows that Dellas-Kyriakos are the starting CBs and Papastathopoulos will likely take over from Dellas after 2008. As for Tavlaridis, I also think he should get another chance but we don't know what happens behind the scenes. Maybe him and Otto had a bust-up or maybe he doesn't have a good attitude (he is known as being a bit of a hothead).

As for the rest, I'm generally happy with the team we have now. Younger players like Torosidis and Samaras are getting ample playing time and the core of the team is now much different from 2004. We have plenty of options when it comes to forwards and the midfield is set. The only real concerning position is in goal. I still don't feel totally safe with Chalkias but at least he's solid.

Anyways, for the game I see a nice 2-0 with Gekas and Samaras the scorers.

[paxiotis7]

Some of you guys need to relax. Kapsis won't see 1 minute of action against Malta or at Euro 2008 for that matter.

Who cares how much kapsis plays. Thats not the point. Ive said this before, id rather younger guys sit on the bench. At least they get possitive experience for the future. Kapsis has no future for greece.

[DUDE]

Some of you talk about Greece getting "arse-raped" and humiliated at Euro 2008. Greece was one of the oldest teams in Euro 2004 and won it all. France and Italy were amongst the oldest teams at WC 2006 and both made it to the final.

How many Greeks wanted Otto's head on a platter after the Turkey loss and look where Greece is right now. He reformed the team more or less and had a series of positive results including a historic first official win in Turkey which qualified Greece for Euro and pushed Turkey to near-elimination.

So, now, Otto wants to win both matches and get 31 points and further silence those critics who said Greece would be the first Euro Champ to not defend their title or barely qualify. As far as being in a "weak division", consider that of the 7 divisions, 5 are led by non-superpower teams (Greece, Croatia, Romania, Poland, Scotland). But, in fairness, Poland's division, has been the most tightly contested with Portugal, Finland, and Serbia.

Before mentioning that those first-place teams, except Greece, play superpowers, are we suppose to conclude that those first-place non-superpower teams are really that good or that the superpower teams they play against are not so strong? Norway are a not a superpower team and might be seen as the "weakest" second-place team but consider that, in our division, third-place Turkey and fourth-place Bosnia are better than some of the other third and fourth place teams. As far as "easy" divisions, look at the ones being dominated by Spain/Sweden and Germany/Czech Republic.

Also, when Greece won their division in EC 2004 qual., many said that Greece won an "easy' division because second-place Spain did not play well and third-place Ukraine were an average team. Well, guess what happened afterwards?

Otto deserves criticism for Wc 2006, Confederations Cup 2006, and the losses to Albania and Turkey. Even though his callups and formations are odd, he has done more good than bad for the NT and thats better than any coach B4 him.

The issue is not age per se. Zola, Tugay, Hagi, Rivaldo, Djole, etc, are all great examples of players that are/were at least 35 and still and still brilliant. BUT players mature at different times!!! Some players hit 30 and they crumble! Kapsis is an older player that cannot compete at the very highest level anymore. If Tavlaridis does have a bad attitude then surely there are other options besides Kapsis! If not, call up an extra midfielder and give him a chance.

We've qualified and finishing on 31 points or 25 doesn't mean s%$#!. If he wants to silence his critics he has to take Greece to at the very least the quarters (if not the semis!). The only way to do that is to prepare properly.

[AEK-MTL]

Who cares how much kapsis plays. Thats not the point. Ive said this before, id rather younger guys sit on the bench. At least they get possitive experience for the future. Kapsis has no future for greece.

Ideally, Otto would give the spot to an up-and-coming youngster, like Papastathopoulos or Avraam Papadopoulos but to me it's not that big a deal. Sure it might be great experience for them to sit on the bench but it wouldn't really improve their development that much IMO.

Otto wants to win the next two games; in my mind not because he wants to silence his critics but more because he wants to get the highest ranking possible in the FIFA rankings for WC2010 qualifying. Maybe he sees something in Kapsis that we don't and has him there as an insurance. I'm sure guys like Papastathopoulos and Ninis will get their chance in friendlies.

[plato-ny]

I do recall reading that if Greece wins the next 2 matches and the teams near us in the FIFA rankings achieve "expected" results, then Greece can be as high as 9th place, which would be just enough to be in Pot 1 for the WC qual. draw in late November.

[as5664]

Ideally, Otto would give the spot to an up-and-coming youngster, like Papastathopoulos or Avraam Papadopoulos but to me it's not that big a deal. Sure it might be great experience for them to sit on the bench but it wouldn't really improve their development that much IMO.

Otto wants to win the next two games; in my mind not because he wants to silence his critics but more because he wants to get the highest ranking possible in the FIFA rankings for WC2010 qualifying. Maybe he sees something in Kapsis that we don't and has him there as an insurance. I'm sure guys like Papastathopoulos and Ninis will get their chance in friendlies.

At last, a rational voice on this post!

I really can't understand all the fuss; we all know Otto and his style of coaching, so let's just get on with our lives already :) It is what it is. I'm sure Otto has some reason for calling up Kapsis. The man cannot be as blind and inept as you people make him out to be.

The team has messed up in the past, no doubt about it. But these mistakes seem to be redressed. If we didn't win against Turkey, or if we were struggling to qualify, I would then say, yes, Otto is not correcting his mistakes and, therefore, has to go. But this is not the case.

The fact that we qualified speaks for itself...we have NEVER qualified for two competitions back to back in our entire history. As for defending our title, keep in mind that NO team in European history has won back to back! So, let's keep our expectations reasonable.

Anyway, my main point is that this whole "lets bring this or that player in" is entirely fruitless. Otto has coached like this since he was in Germany, and their respective fans held the same criticism. Can't we just talk about the Malta-Greece game without all this horse s%$#! about us getting massacred 7 months from now? It's really getting annoying.

[as5664]

anyways, i'm not sure how we'll stack up next summer, but recent otto tinkering with the side (4-3-3 instead of 5-3-2), show that greece will certainly play more attractive football than compared to 2004...from there, who knows?

But we played 4-3-3 in Euro 2004, even the final match against Portugal. I don't think we ever used 5-3-2 back then. Our most defensive was 4-4-1 against Spain, and 4-5-1 against Czech Republic.

The claim that we played too defensively, in my opinion, was BS devised by our opponents to save face after they failed to back up their big words.

My prediction for Malta (and beyond:)):

-------------------------Niko--------------------------

Seitaridis-----Dellas-----Kyrgiakos------Torosidis (Spyropoulos sub; final third)

------------------------Basinas (Antzas sub; final third)

-----------Katsouranis-------Karagounis------------

Amanatidis------------Gekas----------------Samaras

[aek21]

Greece is going to try to play at full strength, believe it or not there is something riding on this game for both Greece and Malta... coefficient points for the World Cup Qualifying.

So forget any newcomers and expect the same guys who were called-up last time out. There is one exception though, Charisteas is out injured and naturally another forward will be called up in his place. I assume Dimitris Papadopoulos, he has national team experience and he's been playing exceptionally as of late.

I don't know about Samaras starting, I imagine it will be Giannakopoulos. Samaras did play well against Turkey, but keep in mind his more recent performances. He hasn't been exactly spectacular for Man City, afterall he did play a full 90 minutes recently without a shot on goal and in Man City's most recent game he didn't even make the subs bench. :blink: He's not a consistent player.

[plato-ny]

Tickets went on sale for the Malta match. It would be dissapointing if it wasnt a packed house considering Greece clinched a Euro spot, are on the verge of clinching first place, and won in Turkey for the first time in a meaningful game.

Also, Carew is coming back for Norway and will play in the match against Turkey, who will be in for a tough time.

[OFI-mtl]

Greece is going to try to play at full strength, believe it or not there is something riding on this game for both Greece and Malta... coefficient points for the World Cup Qualifying.

So forget any newcomers and expect the same guys who were called-up last time out. There is one exception though, Charisteas is out injured and naturally another forward will be called up in his place. I assume Dimitris Papadopoulos, he has national team experience and he's been playing exceptionally as of late.

I don't know about Samaras starting, I imagine it will be Giannakopoulos. Samaras did play well against Turkey, but keep in mind his more recent performances. He hasn't been exactly spectacular for Man City, afterall he did play a full 90 minutes recently without a shot on goal and in Man City's most recent game he didn't even make the subs bench. :blink: He's not a consistent player.

And what has Stelios done to merit a start,the guy does not sniff any playing time.

The Lineup:

NikopolidisorChalkias,Giourkas,Dellas,Soto,Torosidis,Patsa,Katsouranis,Basinas,Karagounis,Gekas,Amantidis.

Patsa is a much better option then stelios,he and Giourkas worked well vs Bosnia.Pleez play guys who are IN form.Spyropoulos should get a run in the 2nd half.

Is Lagos back yet

[OFI-mtl]

Greece is going to try to play at full strength, believe it or not there is something riding on this game for both Greece and Malta... coefficient points for the World Cup Qualifying.

So forget any newcomers and expect the same guys who were called-up last time out.  There is one exception though, Charisteas is out injured and naturally another forward will be called up in his place. I assume Dimitris Papadopoulos, he has national team experience and he's been playing exceptionally as of late.

I don't know about Samaras starting, I imagine it will be Giannakopoulos.  Samaras did play well against Turkey, but keep in mind his more recent performances.  He hasn't been exactly spectacular for Man City, afterall he did play a full 90 minutes recently without a shot on goal and in Man City's most recent game he didn't even make the subs bench. :blink: He's not a consistent player.

And what has Stelios done to merit a start,the guy does not sniff any playing time.

The Lineup:

NikopolidisorChalkias,Giourkas,Dellas,Soto,Torosidis,Patsa,Katsouranis,Basinas,Karagounis,Gekas,Amantidis.

Patsa is a much better option then stelios,he and Giourkas worked well vs Bosnia.Pleez play guys who are IN form.Spyropoulos should get a run in the 2nd half.

Is Lagos back yet

I'm sure they both plyed in Bosnia when Patsa came on late and did well.

[plato-ny]

Found these in another forum

Normal edition

Flag edition

[Guest geok]

Very cool pictures, well done plato-ny!

From the squad he called up for the last 2 games, we are going for the 6 points that might get us seeded (in the 1st drawing group) for the WC2010. From what I recall from the qualification groups, teams that we can overcome in the ranking may be:

Group 1: Poland.

Group 2: Ukraine.

Group 5: Croatia.

Group 6: Sweden.

Group 7: Romania.

Teams seeded above us are almost certainly:

Portugal, France, Italy, Germany, Czech Republic, England, Spain, Netherlands.

If we get 2 wins in the last 2 games and none of these teams does better than us, we are most likely ranked in the 9th place, and hence in the first group for WC2010! We must win the last 2 games.

[Guest geok]

correction to my previous posting:

After seeing the fifa website, the criteria for drawing the WC2010 qualifying groups and the current ranking (we are ranked 12th in Europe) it appears that we need 6 points in the next 2 matches and the losses for Romania, Scotland, England, Croatia.

Romania plays away against Bulgaria and at home against Albania.

Scotland plays against Italy at home (final game).

England plays Croatia at home.

Croatia plays SKOPIA away.

If we win both games and: Romania loses one of their games, Scotland loses of draws and Croatia loses from SKOPIA and lose their final game in England or draw, we may be getting the 9th place.

Lets just focus on our 2 victories and then we can re-examine the situation.

:gr: :gr: :gr:

[Irlandos]

Slow! How can both Croatia and England lose, when they're playing each other? :huh:

[plato-ny]

^ Croatia has 2 games left and England has one game left. As for the rankings,, the system is strange in that when England lost in Russia, they actually gained some points and the USA were in the Top 10 for a while for some unusual reason so it might not be a simple case of winning and gaining.

Its interesting that Malta's training camp will be in Turkey, according to the UEFA website, for their next 2 matches with Greece and Norway, the latter playing Turkey this Saturday.

[Exocet]

Does anyone know why Charisteas won't be in the squad for the Malta and Hungary matches. There is no report of any injuries. Just curious to see if Otto is contemplating whether or not he needs him. But more than likely he will bring for Euro 2008.

[Argy]

Does anyone know why Charisteas won't be in the squad for the Malta and Hungary matches. There is no report of any injuries. Just curious to see if Otto is contemplating whether or not he needs him. But more than likely he will bring for Euro 2008.

according to uefa.com, charisteas has an ankle problem