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Greece - Croatia ( Round 2, 2nd Leg - 12 Nov. 2017, Giorgos Karaiskaki, Piraeus)

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the world cup will come and go quickly. especially with the new year near. its up to us to work hard to make sure we have a good qualifying campaing for euro 2020. they always say that sometimes its best to miss out on a tournament for rebuild purposes. however the euro 2016 campaign really killed us. now we will be 6 years without a major tournament as opposed to 4. its not uncommon its just crap when you see a country finally get it right in 04 and didn't really build on it.

unfortunately for us the ranieri era really hurt us. we should of looked at a coach similar to rehagle and santos

 

This nations league gives me hope.

Edited by Megas
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44 minutes ago, GreekLunatic said:

Did tziolis announce his retirement after the game

Why would he? He's EPO protected. That said, he'd be 35 by Euro 2020, not that knowing this would stop EPO. 

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For me, these are some of the things that cost us and lessons learnt,

  • Manolas FIFA suspension in game 1 <If he plays, no way we lose 4-1>
  • Injuries to Donis and Mantalos <if they play, we score at least 1 in Athens>
  • Failure to mark Modric in game 1, i.e. the incorrect use of Zeca in the flank in game 1
  • Loss of form of Karnezis, Stafylidis and Samaris
  • Use of name players not playing for their respective clubs, Karnezis, Stafylidis and Samaris
  • Reliance on Tziolis, as the DM <maybe no better option here>
  • Loss of form Fortounis
  • Lack of or non-development of Vellios & Diamantakos
  • Mitroglou not at 100%
  • Not trialling Bakakis
  • Lack of playing time for Lykogianis, as backup for Tzavellas
  • Holebas retirement, for Tzavellas

Scibbe's summary at the end was a correct assessment. We need to develop the offensive side to our game but we are currently limited with few solutions from the League. Most of the big clubs and even mid tiers don't have many Greeks in attacking positions like another Mitroglou.

The reason he picked Velios and Diamantakos is because of their potential at a young age, but unfortunately they have not developed to the required standard for international football.

Edited by kbxk508
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16 minutes ago, kbxk508 said:

For me, these are some of the things that cost us and lessons learnt,

  • Manolas FIFA suspension in game 1 <If he plays, no way we lose 4-1>
  • Injuries to Donis and Mantalos <if they play, we score at least 1 in Athens>
  • Failure to mark Modric in game 1, i.e. the incorrect use of Zeca in the flank in game 1
  • Loss of form of Karnezis, Stafylidis and Samaris
  • Use of name players not playing for their respective clubs, Karnezis, Stafylidis and Samaris
  • Reliance on Tziolis, as the DM <maybe no better option here>
  • Loss of form Fortounis
  • Lack of or non-development of Vellios & Diamantakos
  • Mitroglou not at 100%
  • Not trialling Bakakis
  • Lack of playing time for Lykogianis, as backup for Tzavellas
  • Holebas retirement, for Tzavellas

Scibbe's summary at the end was a correct assessment. We need to develop the offensive side to our game but we are currently limited with few solutions from the League. Most of the big clubs and even mid tiers don't have many Greeks in attacking positions like another Mitroglou.

The reason he picked Velios and Diamantakos is because of their potential at a young age, but unfortunately they have not developed to the required standard for international football.

I agree mate it starts from home! The academies are producing nothing and even if they do they go to waste because at the big four have moreforeigners play more than Greeks! 

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Does anyone have a list of our quality up and coming youngsters from U-19 and U-21, are any of them a realistic chance for call-ups in the next two years?

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Androutsos and Limnios could be called up in the near future. Manthatis should follow aswell. They have potential to be really good. Barkas the keeper looks talented as well as the 24 year old Gianniotis. 

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Will vlachomodios be are next keeper choice if he continues to develop the way he has been? I feel like Kapino is falling out of favour both internationally and club level

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For me 4-1 loss in zagreb was skibbe. Forget the whole lack of attacker's line...we ate 4 which is unprecedented for this team....they looked lost. 

Edited by jason

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4 hours ago, kbxk508 said:

For me, these are some of the things that cost us and lessons learnt,

  • Manolas FIFA suspension in game 1 <If he plays, no way we lose 4-1>
  • Injuries to Donis and Mantalos <if they play, we score at least 1 in Athens>
  • Failure to mark Modric in game 1, i.e. the incorrect use of Zeca in the flank in game 1
  • Loss of form of Karnezis, Stafylidis and Samaris
  • Use of name players not playing for their respective clubs, Karnezis, Stafylidis and Samaris
  • Reliance on Tziolis, as the DM <maybe no better option here>
  • Loss of form Fortounis
  • Lack of or non-development of Vellios & Diamantakos
  • Mitroglou not at 100%
  • Not trialling Bakakis
  • Lack of playing time for Lykogianis, as backup for Tzavellas
  • Holebas retirement, for Tzavellas

Scibbe's summary at the end was a correct assessment. We need to develop the offensive side to our game but we are currently limited with few solutions from the League. Most of the big clubs and even mid tiers don't have many Greeks in attacking positions like another Mitroglou.

The reason he picked Velios and Diamantakos is because of their potential at a young age, but unfortunately they have not developed to the required standard for international football.

ITS NOT ANOTHER  MITROGLOU THAT WILL SAVE US OR TURN THINGS AROUND.

WHY DID MACHALAS LEAD HIS LEAGUE IN SCORING WHEN HE LEFT GREECE?  GEKAS THE SAME....MITROGLOU TEARING IT UP IN FRENCH LEAGUE....WHY?

 

SERVICE  SERVICE   SERVICE........ OUR MIDFIELD PLAY ABSOLUTELY STINKS...S T I N K S  AND OUR MIDFIELD MENTALITY STINKS. 

ITS THAT SIMPLE. NO OFF THE BALL MOVEMENT, SPACING IS H O R R I B L E, NO CREATIVITY TO DETERMINE WHERE OPEN SPACE CAN BE EXPLOITED......THESE ARE NOT BRAIN SURGERY REQUIREMENTS.

WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOU A GREEK PLAYER TAKE A SHOT FROM THE TOP OF THE BOX? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? THERE IS NOBODY THERE! 

THE THING IS WE CAN AFFORD OFFENSIVE MIDS BECAUSE OUR D IS SO GOOD....YOU PLAY DEFENSIVE MIDS TO COMPENSATE FOR THE LACK OF GOOD DEFENDERS. 

I DEDICATE THIS SONG TO ALL OUR MIDS FIELDERS (INCLUDING FORTOUNIS WHO PLAYS LIKE HE DOES NOT WANT TO GET HIS UNIFORM DIRTY) 

 

 

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squad should be like that in the qualifiers and the nations league.

GK; karnezis, kapino, vlachodimos

RB; torosidis, mpakakis

RCB; sokratis, retsos

LCB; manolas, papadopoulos

LB; stafylidis, lykogiannis

CDM; zeca, kourmpelis

AMF samaris, tachtsidis

RW; donis, mpakasetas

AM; fortounis, pelkas

LW; mantalos, lazaros

CF; mitroglou, karelis

 

 

 

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Just read apparently our Skibbe was showing the boys games from Croatia in Euro 2016! 17 months ago to prepare them for the first game! Players were shouting at Maniatis from the bench that Perisic is his man not Papadopoulos'!!! 

The team was definitely not prepared! Clueless and it showed. ADIAVASTOS! If this is true Skibbe must go. The coach doesn't play on the pitch but he definitely has to do his homework and prepare his team prior.

 

 

Edited by Makynia

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Over two games the display was just plain horrible.

 

I have read these forums for years, but I can't resist to join since I see that noone is mentioning the name Leonardo Koutris. If anyone should be called up, especially since the loss of Holebas, it is Koutris. 

Of course, Bakakis should be called up aswell.

 

Would love to see this

 

----------------------------Karnezis/Kapino/Vlachodimos

--------------------Manolas------Papadopoulos-------Sokratis

Torosidis/Bakakis---------------------------------------------------------Koutris/Stafylidis

-------------------------------Tachtisidis--------Zeca-----------------------------

--------------------------------------Fortounis

----------------------Mitroglou------------------Donis------------

 

It's so obvious we need to strikers. Mitroglou was handed tons of longballs during this capmpaign. He often wins the ball and heads it in attacking direction. Sadly no soul on earth chase after those balls.

We also had some good moments when the ball was served towards one of our flanks. For some reason, Mitroglou came down to meet the ball with no one taking the offensive sprint. How on earth can we ever create soemthing with no one threatening their penalty area?!
 

 

 

Edited by Makry

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15 minutes ago, Boxou said:

squad should be like that in the qualifiers and the nations league.

GK; karnezis, kapino, vlachodimos

RB; torosidis, mpakakis

RCB; sokratis, retsos

LCB; manolas, papadopoulos

LB; stafylidis, lykogiannis

CDM; zeca, kourmpelis

AMF samaris, tachtsidis

RW; donis, mpakasetas

AM; fortounis, pelkas

LW; mantalos, lazaros

CF; mitroglou, karelis

 

 

 

Karnezis and Torosidis will be too old by the next tournament in 2020.

A lot of other players in this list are not deserving enough to be starters.  Paps has become sloppy.  Samaris bad.  Taxi as usual all promise no delivery.  Bakasetas not sure why he's in the squad.  Fortounis you can't rely on him.

Time for bit of a clean out, but I can't see Skibbe doing this.  Hopefully we get a new manager with more imagination who doesn't just select players based on what jersey they wear.

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that's a nice system that i also recommend. 

but koutris needs work defensively, i'd trust lykogiannis more even though i believe koutris will be a valuable part of this team probably in the euros. 

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makry - strikers is not the problem per se...

its midfield. plain and simple. anyone who does not see this clearly does not know soccer. 

either they are instructed not to play box to box or they can't/wont or the dont have the two way mentality that you need to be offensive when the opportunity arises.

one guy cant dribble the whole other team....u need a group of like minded midfielders that know how to advance the play forward. 

mitroglou is a lone striker in france often, and he is tearing it up, why?   service  service service ........... 

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2 minutes ago, Bananas said:

A lot of other players in this list are not deserving enough to be starters.  Paps has become sloppy.  Samaris bad.  Taxi as usual all promise no delivery.  Bakasetas not sure why he's in the squad.  Fortounis you can't rely on him.

1000000% agree.......

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Just now, Bananas said:

Karnezis and Torosidis will be too old by the next tournament in 2020.

A lot of other players in this list are not deserving enough to be starters.  Paps has become sloppy.  Samaris bad.  Taxi as usual all promise no delivery.  Bakasetas not sure why he's in the squad.  Fortounis you can't rely on him.

Time for bit of a clean out, but I can't see Skibbe doing this.  Hopefully we get a new manager with more imagination who doesn't just select players based on what jersey they wear.

i'm not claiming having torosidis as a starter in the euros but in the campaign, which starts next september. same goes for karnezis as well.

papadopoulos will not start but is a valuable back up, and samaris with tachtsidis are needed because we don't have any other high level oxtaria. kone could be added there if he shows anything with aek in the meantime, charisis, siopis etc. also mpakasetas is there because it will be too early to integrate anyone of lamprou/limnios/androutsos/manthatis at the first place, and because we lack wingers in general. 

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2 hours ago, MelbourneGreek said:

Will vlachomodios be are next keeper choice if he continues to develop the way he has been? I feel like Kapino is falling out of favour both internationally and club level

I just don't see him gettin playing time over the gk that benfica have currently. 

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yesterdays game was worse than the first one. forget the score.

game one we made three uncharacteristically bad mistakes in one game and got punished for it...even so we had BETTER (although not high quality) chances to score in that game.

game two croatia parked the bus and gave us space in the middle of the field so at least play some soccer and create SOMETHING...WEC OULDNT DO NOTHING ....hOW CAN YOU GET THREE GOALS IF U DONT EVEN HAVE THREE SHOTS ON GOAL !!!!!!!

please.....taxidis/smaris/fourtounis etc...they are all mediocre at best, foutournis the most puzzling and frustrating since he has some ability....NOBODY stepped up...NOBODY did ANYTHING you can point to and say "yeah thats a player" they had their chance under the best conditions to show SOMETHING......

not questionning their heart or determination ---- they just not that good, and any team going forward must be reshaped with this in mind....

giannoitis came in and made some noise....that was it...

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4 minutes ago, Boxou said:

i'm not claiming having torosidis as a starter in the euros but in the campaign, which starts next september. same goes for karnezis as well.

papadopoulos will not start but is a valuable back up, and samaris with tachtsidis are needed because we don't have any other high level oxtaria. kone could be added there if he shows anything with aek in the meantime, charisis, siopis etc. also mpakasetas is there because it will be too early to integrate anyone of lamprou/limnios/androutsos/manthatis at the first place, and because we lack wingers in general. 

Don't get me wrong.  I love Torosidis.  He always gives everything for the NT.  But his time is up.

In today's game we should have gone with 3 at the back Socrates, Manolas, Retsos.  Young Retsos is much better than Paps.  I used to watch Paps when he was playing for Schalke as a DM 4 or 5 years ago and I though here we go, we've got a DM who can dominate the middle and bash the opposition into submission.  But the injuries have killed him and I don't think he'll ever be the same player.

In the RB position I would've played Kitsiou (remember him?) because although overall  he's not as complete as Torosidis (and may very well never be) he's actually very good as an attacking RB.  Where he lacks is in the defensive part of his game but if you're playing with 3 at the back and Zeca with Koutroubis that's enough cover to give him licence to attack.  On the LB position it's hard to say who to play.  Staff is the logical choice if you're going to give your full backs license to attack (as you should if you're trying to overturn 3 goals).  Maybe Lykogiannis ?  Or what about Giannoulis (from Atromitos).  They are in 1st position on the ladder.  Is he not good enough because he doesn't wear an Olympiakos, AEK, Panathinaikos or PAOK jersey ?  Has Skibbe even heard of him ?

In the middle I wouldn't have bothered with Fortounis.  If you don't have a number 10 then don't just slot someone in there for the sake of it.  Either Androutos or even Charisis can play box to box.

And up front play two.  Obviously Mitroglou and for the second slot take your pick of Pelkas, Lazaros whoever.  I'd go with Lazaros since he can really pressure a defence if he's given confidence.

A line up like the above would've been unpredicted by the Croatians and could've really put them off their game.  If a goal goes in then its game on all of a sudden.  I can't understand why Skibbe was so conservative.  Roll the dice my man, you had absolutely nothing to lose.  If you're down 4-1 at half time in a game for promotion don't you roll the dice and go all out attack ?  But no not Skibbe.

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don't act like 2014 team would do better than the current one. if you remember they suffered a 3-1 loss to bosnia and played some ugly football against slovakia, tbh we were lucky to win any of these teams, then lost again 3-0 to colombia in the world cup. but obviously since we made it there nobody was saying anything. same goes for the 2010 team, lost at home and away to switzerland and dropped points to moldova and israel away!!! but we got ukraine there and romania later in the playoffs which only increased our possibilies to go through as it exactly happened. 

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-bbaw

 

Of course its the midfield. But its not like we can swing the magic wand and make them better. We can provide Mitro with extra service upfront though by inserting another striker. This way, Mitro will also be of assistance.

Edited by Makry

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56 minutes ago, Boxou said:

squad should be like that in the qualifiers and the nations league.

GK; karnezis, kapino, vlachodimos

RB; torosidis, mpakakis

RCB; sokratis, retsos

LCB; manolas, papadopoulos

LB; stafylidis, lykogiannis

CDM; zeca, kourmpelis

AMF samaris, tachtsidis

RW; donis, mpakasetas

AM; fortounis, pelkas

LW; mantalos, lazaros

CF; mitroglou, karelis

 

 

 

Gioannitoas was dynamite yesterday in the short time he was on he deserves to be on there. Torosidis' service was atrocious. It may be time for him to go and give Sokratis the permanent captaincy like he deserves. 

Edited by Argy

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