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Greece - Croatia ( Round 2, 2nd Leg - 12 Nov. 2017, Giorgos Karaiskaki, Piraeus)


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5 hours ago, Chris Tsamados said:

This is the first time I've been able to bring myself back to the forum after we went out! 

 

I opened my laptop yesterday and it was still on the stream from the match in the 85th minute (when I stopped watching) and it started to play it, I was like nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In retrospect I think Skibbe should have played with two strikers and dropped a few of the 'invisible players' (Tziolis, Bakesetas, Tachtsidis) he chose. This is the line-up I would have gone with:

 

__________________________Karnesis

 

____Torosidis_____Sokratis_________Manolas______Retsos 

 

Lazoros___________Zeca____________Fortunis______Stafylidis

 

__________________Mitroglou________Pelkas

 

 

I really think the penalty decision going against us was the turning point in the game, if we'd have got the penalty then the players would have had a lot more belief, and it would have rattled Croatia. Its just a shame dodgy and corrupt officiating again screwed us over. I also think our crossing really let us down on the night, a game Stafylidis would have really excelled in, I can't understand how Skibbe couldn't see this and at least bring him on for the second half?

 

 

All good points I watched the match again that should have been a penalty but we are Greece and we will not get those calls.Kuipers was never going to do us any favors, he did not give us a few free kicks and an obvious deliberate hand ball on Strinic should have been a yellow. Toro was ready to go at him. 

Our crosses were pathetic too from Toro just blasting the ball out of play and Lazaros on an early Free kick in a dangerous area he hits it low at the first defender. Corner kicks were not good either but then again you have Skibbe leaving Fortounis off?

What a debactle.

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Santos and Karagounis and Katsouranis have nothing to do why we suck now.... its football culture and a losing mentality. Also Greece does not have professional structure for development. Iceland population is 335,025... Croatia 4.29 million. Whats our excuse? Maybe the passion to act like a hooligan at SL games needs to be converted into playing pro football....  

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there are four  ways to move forward:

1. good, fast wingers that can go deep and make good crosses to MORE THAN ONE PLAYER (mitroglou) in the box or thereabouts ie  (holeavas to samaras for  ---a PENALTY) 

 

2. smart midfielders/and backs that attack open spaces and use off the ball tactics and movement to find spaces and that can connect two good purposeful passes in a row collectively moving down the field; 

 

3. individual players that can breakdown the other teams Defenders one on one , draw defenders and pass (to open spaces hopefully being occupied by teammates pushing forward) (Fetfa)

4. long ball precision passing midfileders (Tsiartas, etc) that can cover alot of ground by delivering long balls (to hopefully teamates that run to them) 

 

We currently have NONE of this...............NOT ONE

 

ours is pass the ball back to the goalie and let him kick it into a crowd three quarter of the way down the field .......(when he is not kicking to a player on the other team)

 

 

 

Edited by bbaw
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3 hours ago, jason said:

Santos and Karagounis and Katsouranis have nothing to do why we suck now.... its football culture and a losing mentality. Also Greece does not have professional structure for development. Iceland population is 335,025... Croatia 4.29 million. Whats our excuse? Maybe the passion to act like a hooligan at SL games needs to be converted into playing pro football....  

We are missing those kind of players in the midfield who can command the game, play with heart and lead a team on the field unlike our current crop of Tziolis, Samaris, Tactsidis, etc. As for Santos like him or not (and he's not perfect) he had an incredible record during his tenure along with making the Euro last 8 and round of 16 at the World Cup. Just qualifying for a tournament now would be considered a huge achievement were as not to long ago it was pretty much a given.

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2004 - 100% agreed....its funny that even those guys were criticized lol lol lol ....

but compared to now they are head and shoulders above this crop of statues. 

santos, coaching in greece for years, had more insight into players abilities and i though he did a great job of mixing nd matching players abilities with tactics. 

 

COMMAND THE GAME ................ 

u must put your stamp on it - impose your will on the field....to do that, you must have an identity as a team....a few things that define you, that you execute well all the time...only then can you command the game.

this team had no identity. ..it did not know what it wanted to be...you saw that alot --- indecision, hesitstion...no purpose...that is 80% coaching and defining to your players what you expect...

but u cant expect a donkey to win the kentucky derby...if u pick the wrong guys, you are doomed from the start

Edited by bbaw
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The lack of creative midfielders has killed us. if I was epo I would go searching for them in the academies. This is the only way up we produce defenders but unfortunately no creative midfielders since ninis and feftazidis.

Edited by Megas
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12 hours ago, Chris Tsamados said:

This is the first time I've been able to bring myself back to the forum after we went out! 

 

I opened my laptop yesterday and it was still on the stream from the match in the 85th minute (when I stopped watching) and it started to play it, I was like nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In retrospect I think Skibbe should have played with two strikers and dropped a few of the 'invisible players' (Tziolis, Bakesetas, Tachtsidis) he chose. This is the line-up I would have gone with:

 

__________________________Karnesis

 

____Torosidis_____Sokratis_________Manolas______Retsos 

 

Lazoros___________Zeca____________Fortunis______Stafylidis

 

__________________Mitroglou________Pelkas

 

 

I really think the penalty decision going against us was the turning point in the game, if we'd have got the penalty then the players would have had a lot more belief, and it would have rattled Croatia. Its just a shame dodgy and corrupt officiating again screwed us over. I also think our crossing really let us down on the night, a game Stafylidis would have really excelled in, I can't understand how Skibbe couldn't see this and at least bring him on for the second half?

 

 

i would think that the manolas desicion was the first step in putting us behind the croats.

I would actually prefer his suspension to be on the second leg, would have given us more belief

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It's just sad to see us miss the World Cup and will sting once the draw is held and in the coming months before the tournament kicks of in Russia. Croatia is a talented team but not a powerhouse like Germany, Spain or even Belgium whom we battled very hard. So to go out 4-1 and look totally unprepared in Zagreb with our solid defense looking in shambles is hard to swallow. Skibbe and I like him personally and during the campaign had done a fairly well in some matches, but what was he thinking during the first leg starting Maniatis who could not keep up and going with 3 at the back and the team looked so confused. Throw in Tziolis and Samaris and a rusty Karnezis who had not played much recently up until the week before in Watford were he made another horrible mistake coming out of his net for a ball not getting there and getting beat for a goal. Then he sets us up to play for a draw in Greece when we need goals or we are OUT of the World cup? Most of his call ups and selections were wrong a long with his tactics. The only thing out of his control was the ridiculous suspension of Manolas, but there is no way we should allow Croatia 4 goals in one match they had scored less goals in qualifying than us. 

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23 minutes ago, Megas said:

The lack of creative midfielders has killed us. if I was epo I would go searching for them in the academies. This is the only way up we produce defenders but unfortunately no creative midfielders since ninis and feftazidis.

there are some creative midfielders in the team, even gianniotas played creatively for the 30' he was on for, Skibbe just doesnt use what he has available.

I hope the end of this campaign is the turning point for the team, get rid of the old and bring in the new 

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1 minute ago, Boxou said:

so what did and fetfatzidis really offer to us? they were never an integral part of past nts and now at their prime one is playing in saudi arabia and the other in israel..

fetfa would slot into our team nicely. i really dont know why he doesnt play.

He tears up the saudi league every week, how can you play tzolis from saudi and not fetfa?>

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Just now, MelbourneGreek said:

fetfa would slot into our team nicely. i really dont know why he doesnt play.

He tears up the saudi league every week, how can you play tzolis from saudi and not fetfa?>

why do you bring tziolis as an example? the fact that skibbe with a dead brain keeps calling him up like the rest of his buddies (vellios, diamantakos, tzavellas, maniatis, gianniotas) means he's clueless, not that somebody who is playing in saudi arabia deserves to get called up in a team that wants to qualify in the euro and the world cup. 

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4 hours ago, Boxou said:
4 hours ago, Boxou said:

why do you bring tziolis as an example? the fact that skibbe with a dead brain keeps calling him up like the rest of his buddies (vellios, diamantakos, tzavellas, maniatis, gianniotas) means he's clueless, not that somebody who is playing in saudi arabia deserves to get called up in a team that wants to qualify in the euro and the world cup. 

 

I was trying to highlight how many coaches use the saudi league as an excuse to not select players. 

Fetfa can play as a number 9 and on the wing. He should be innthw team 

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1 hour ago, Chris Tsamados said:

As much as Samaras was criticized we've never been able to find a replacement for him. He was able to run at and take on defenders, he wasn't afraid to shoot and try and setup play, even if some of the time it didn't work out. 

I think Donis is the player that does that now. 

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THESE HIGHLIGHTS ARE FROM ONE F@%KING GAME!!

We desperately need this sort of playmaking /space making / hungry to attack / and explosive style of player to compliment the  defensive structure we have as team. 

I don't give a sh!t if you think he's lazy defensively or whatever the issue may be that you may want to bitch or complain about it's laughable that this player isn't anywhere to be found on our 23 man roster   

Watch this clip and make note on how many times you witnessed the rest of the whole squad (with everybody who's played in the past 18 months included ) do what Fetfa does in this short 7 minute clip. 

If only we had Holebas and Fetfa's attack oriented mindset, with the class of our CB's we could have been able to let those two 'sons of bitches' ;) run wild and cause some panic to the other team. 

 

Nope.  Instead it's A PASS BACK TO THE KEEPER !

We can't even make a bloody 1-2 and maintain any rhythm AT ALL. 

 

Donis seems to be of that mold.  

We'd be a lot better surrounding Holebas/Fetfatzidis/Donis with our TWO CB's 

and magically transforming K PAPADOPOULOS to play 'stopper' in front of the CB's. We'd have a formidable trio back there to mop up the messes left behind ( hoping to anyhow )

I'm so upset at watching the games and hearing my dad yell 'αφού δεν παίζουν μπάλα ' when they clearly can't seem to  play with the ball and sustain any quick possession and movement  up the field.

It looks like recess at school sometimes to be honest; long balls to nobody, passing to the other team, oh look! -we passed it back to our goalie again!

 

 

 

 

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donis/fetfa on the wings, mitro in the middle....

but the key is still the mids.....the MUST push up deep into the box or else there is nobody supoorting all the good stuff donis.fetfa can do....

the TEAM must think offensively so everybody knows what to expect when they move forward. if i beat my player on the wing, i need to know i have supoort behind me that will connect to my cross or my pass etc etc ...

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1 hour ago, Chris Tsamados said:

I've not seen enough of Donis to be able to comment. But if he is like that brilliant, btw is he any relation to Giorgos Donis who played for Blackburn in the 90's? 

yes that's his son.

btw im reading EPO are after ouzounidis, many people there want him so it looks like they won't take into account players' introduction. news of the day for me. he will kick out everything useless in this team and will make us to move the ball quickly. great, great choice. look what's he's doing with so many limited funds in pao and what he did in panionios before. finally moments of happiness after the croatia game. a young promising coach ready to lead us. couldn't be happier. 

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1 hour ago, Boxou said:

yes that's his son.

btw im reading EPO are after ouzounidis, many people there want him so it looks like they won't take into account players' introduction. news of the day for me. he will kick out everything useless in this team and will make us to move the ball quickly. great, great choice. look what's he's doing with so many limited funds in pao and what he did in panionios before. finally moments of happiness after the croatia game. a young promising coach ready to lead us. couldn't be happier. 

I also read that they have some interest in Traianos Dellas to coach the NT.

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17 minutes ago, J1078 said:

I also read that they have some interest in Traianos Dellas to coach the NT.

dunno..the only rumours that are flying atm are about ouzounidis..and hopefully they're true! dellas is not even a real manager...

Edited by Boxou
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