pao123 Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 guys..i know i dont want shoum either but he is staying because we are winning the title and maybe even the cup.... :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos13 Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Ela: By Vardis I meant Vardinnogianis meaning Giorgos. Anyways... I am a big PAO fan too. I hurt when the lose like I lost my mother. I love PAO more than any thing in my life and I mean that with no exaggeration. I never doubted that he did good things for PAO. But you must accept that some of theings he did was downright destructive. Did he really dismantle organise fans? Yes and no. He dismantled those organised fans that didn't say 'yes' to him. But he created organised fans. What is PALEFIP? They are organised fans and they are 'yes-men'. "When he said the legendary POTE KSANA PROTATHLIMA STON PEIRAIA was years ago before Thrynos got the first championship..." That's exactly my point which evidently you didn't understand. He said it in 96 after we beat Ajax too. A year later Oly were champions. He looked like a fool for having said that in the past. Maybe he should have kept his mouth shut and Kokalis wouldn't think enough was enough. Basket is a much lower budget? Last I checked some of the basketball players take alot more than football players of the top teams. Really, Gianakopouli brought European cups to PAO and made the name PANATHINAIKOS famous in European basketball. Anyway, Giorgos won't come back. He is too old now and I don;t think he wants all the trouble this late in his life. We have to look to future and let the past be the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilmanrok Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Maybe the club should be floated on stock market, to allow major multinational company to buy a controlling majority in club, that could result in big investment in the club. Are you completely insane? Hasn't AEK's downfall taught you anything.Please, for Christ's sake, don't speak these words again. Someone might listen. :not: :not: :not: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos13 Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 The quick answer is that Greek football is not ready for stockmarket floatation. That kind of thing only works with big clubs in big leagues. In England, apart from Manchester United all other teams that went on stock market are struggling. A plc means that there is a board that runs the club and the owner are the shareholders. In Greek culture we fight each other alot so that would never succeed. Our culture is more suited to the ownership system where there is one man in charge like Kokalis and Vardinogianis. We are meditereanean afterall, like in Italy and Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerr Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Fatih Terim :box:He will be coaching a team in Italy or this is what Hincal Uluc (a famous football critics in Turkey and a friend of Terim) said last week on TV! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Ela: By Vardis I meant Vardinnogianis meaning Giorgos. Anyways... Did he really dismantle organise fans? Yes and no. He dismantled those organised fans that didn't say 'yes' to him. But he created organised fans. What is PALEFIP? They are organised fans and they are 'yes-men'. "When he said the legendary POTE KSANA PROTATHLIMA STON PEIRAIA was years ago before Thrynos got the first championship..." That's exactly my point which evidently you didn't understand. He said it in 96 after we beat Ajax too. A year later Oly were champions. He looked like a fool for having said that in the past. Maybe he should have kept his mouth shut and Kokalis wouldn't think enough was enough. Basket is a much lower budget? Last I checked some of the basketball players take alot more than football players of the top teams. Really, Gianakopouli brought European cups to PAO and made the name PANATHINAIKOS famous in European basketball. Anyway, Giorgos won't come back. He is too old now and I don;t think he wants all the trouble this late in his life. We have to look to future and let the past be the past. My friend Panos 13,Kapetanios dismantle all organsied fans apart from Palefip (which were probably the only serious organisation) in order for he presidents to do so... Remember that was the era of koskota... But because all other presidents were APATEONES like koskotas and Trohanas (or the guy before him) nobody followed that tactic because they were clearly hiding behind the sheep.... Kapetanios has NEVER USED PAO fans to hide his crimes behind them... He always did what he thought best REGARDLESS of what every individual idiotic fan was saying..... He had no use of PAO whatsoever, and if you believe that Giannakopoylos heart is GREENER that Kapetanios then you are by far mistaken!!!! As far as basketball is concerned, it is a much lower budget sport that Football. And you are mistaken by comparing the contracts of PAO players in basketball with the contracts of PAO players of football. Clearly in basketball we had bought probably the best players in the world Radja, Wilkins, Vrankivic, Bodiroga, and you are komparing those contracts with Karagounis and Basinas, who are clearly a turd in the football ocean.... With the same amount of money ,in one sport you can get the best player around, but on the other you can only get Zoutatoutas.... When comparing the two sports compare the best with the best!!! So Bodiroga is to be compared with Del piero and Totti... So tell me which sport has the lowest budget? Anyway I will say it again, I think that football overall was much more prosperous for all the teams during the Vardinogianni era, than it is now, full of corruption, kotopoyla, gagatsides, kanellopoyloys and a corrupted x government who along with kokkalis destroyed the meaning of football!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilmanrok Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 My dear Pappou, I could attempt a rather poor opposition to your numbered arguments, but there's no use in that cause I don't want to fight over who gets to be president or anything like that. I don't like a lot of things about the Vardinogiannis era and I hate almost as many. There is on thing however that I simply cannot take, and no, that's not our lack of silverware. You know what that is? The way they treat Nikopolides. The way they've treated Fyssas and Karagounis and Saravakos and so many others. These people were symbols, not just players you can replace. They inspired the fans, not just by being great footballers but because they loved and fought for an idea, as foolish an idea like a football club can ever be. Still, they fought for something, they stood for something in the hearts of all those kids that loved them. And then came the Vardinogiannis family and threw them away like cheap whores. Now, I don't know if this kind of thing has happened once or twice with the Giannakopoulos brothers, but the fact is that players like Bodiroga respect them, the best coach in Europe plays for them and has repeatedly thanked them for the way they've treated him. And in general they seem to respect the fans, the players, the technical staff and the league itself. Do they have the cash to help PAO football? I don't know and I hardly even care. But perhaps they could bring a dignity unkown to everybody that has seen nothing but the Vardinogiannis and Kokkalis dirt in his/her life. And that's why with all my heart I thank the Vardinogiannis family for everything good they've done for us, and now I want them out, because it is clear that their presence brings nothing but harm to PAO and greek sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilmanrok Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 And by the way, look at what Kokkalis has done in basketball and compare it to what the Giannakopouloi have done. It's obvious that the Giannakopouloi don't play by themselves. Kokkalis has invested almost as much. And yet it's come to this year. I will say it again cause I really believe it. The management's job is not just to provide the cash and bring expensive players. You don't get to win 3 euro titles in 10 years that way. You have to create the mentality for it. Bring a serious man to lead the club, make the players feel like home, bring a unity to the fans, make the club big not because the numbers say so, but because everybody has respect for us (except for the gavroi but who gives a flying F***?). That's what I want them to bring in football. And I'm sure they can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 My dear Pappou, I could attempt a rather poor opposition to your numbered arguments, but there's no use in that cause I don't want to fight over who gets to be president or anything like that. I don't like a lot of things about the Vardinogiannis era and I hate almost as many. There is on thing however that I simply cannot take, and no, that's not our lack of silverware. You know what that is? The way they treat Nikopolides. The way they've treated Fyssas and Karagounis and Saravakos and so many others. These people were symbols, not just players you can replace. They inspired the fans, not just by being great footballers but because they loved and fought for an idea, as foolish an idea like a football club can ever be. Still, they fought for something, they stood for something in the hearts of all those kids that loved them. And then came the Vardinogiannis family and threw them away like cheap whores. Now, I don't know if this kind of thing has happened once or twice with the Giannakopoulos brothers, but the fact is that players like Bodiroga respect them, the best coach in Europe plays for them and has repeatedly thanked them for the way they've treated him. And in general they seem to respect the fans, the players, the technical staff and the league itself. Do they have the cash to help PAO football? I don't know and I hardly even care. But perhaps they could bring a dignity unkown to everybody that has seen nothing but the Vardinogiannis and Kokkalis dirt in his/her life. And that's why with all my heart I thank the Vardinogiannis family for everything good they've done for us, and now I want them out, because it is clear that their presence brings nothing but harm to PAO and greek sports. Kilmanrok, I totally agree to the things you mention regarding the treatment of players... I was the one to firts critisise management for such tactics... But you have to understand that this is not Kapetanios fault. Tzigger acts on his own behalf by cinsulting that aliti Zaec (Which are best friends to the best of my knowledge)...As far as Saravakos, the guy was treated OK ,there was nothing wrong with his transfer, and dont forget that Kapetanios bought him back from AEK just to finish off his career at PAO.... You must agree that cases such as the Nikopolidis case and Fyssas and Henriksen are new way of treatment which does not reflect PAO's previous policy... These people (Zaec mostly and Tzigger) have ruined all those things that Kapetanios has build during those 22 years... And that is why Kapetanios went to Peania after 4 years!!! He doesnt want to be involved first due to PASOKIA and second due to his brother Vardis.... But I assure you that he is more 'ARROSTOS' with PAO than both of us or the Giannakopoulos sisters.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilmanrok Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Perhaps you're right. But it seems that Jigger and Zajec will not be leaving the club soon, so how can you hope for a change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsurfer Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 In Spain....or in other countries.....when the fans / members are not satisfied with the president and his crew....they just deselect them.......... and chose a new one..., who fits to their philosophy...... In the country were Democracy..has been introduced as a state-governance......around Football .......Diktators...are on power...and they do what they like........if the fans like it or not.......... Why the people in Greece let to have these circumstances ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHNNY Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 The Spanish system is indeed a great one, where the candidates for elections announce future policies and transfer targets in a bid to attract votes. It allows the fans a degree of say in the club that they actually fund, which must be applauded. A Real Madrid candidate this week stated that he will get rid of Beckam unless he concentrates more on his football. That should win some votes! Any chance of this system being introduced in Greece? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos13 Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Johnny: I think the Gays are doping exactly that wi all this membership nonsense. The story is that you pay your money to become a member of Gays club and then you have the right to vote for a president. In the elections few months ago surprise surprise, Kokalis won 99% of the votes!!! But the Oly example is a very bad one and is similar only in name to what happens in Spain. The Oly elections is like the elections in Iraq of Saddam Hussain. There was only one candidate and nonone dared to vote against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifilli Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 The way they treat Nikopolides. The way they've treated Fyssas and Karagounis and Saravakos and so many others. These people were symbols, not just players you can replace. They inspired the fans, not just by being great footballers but because they loved and fought for an idea, as foolish an idea like a football club can ever be. Still, they fought for something, they stood for something in the hearts of all those kids that loved them. And then came the Vardinogiannis family and threw them away like cheap whores.This subject is very dear to my heart and I have the exact same feelings...I also wanted to add to the rumors that Bajevic's hiring at PAO might bring turmoil to the team and fan protest "alla AEK" If the fans have not mobilized to send Scum back to ...where he belongs, or to protest about the mistreatment of our most senior, most descent, most likable and BEST player,(#13 in the world, played with the world team, the reason why PAO has had such success in Europe, and a huge part of Greece qualifying to the Euro 2004!!!) I do not understand how they could protest Bajevic's hiring... The same goes for the lack of disaproval for the Domazos, Saravakos, Karagounis, Fyssas, and I hope not Bassinas, Seitaridis ect mistreatment!!! Antoni PSYHARA PANATHINAIKARA This is just too provoking... I am appalled that after his atrocious performance vs gauros Halkias will play vs PAOK!!! I have NEVER been so disgusted with the PAO organization, not even when PAO finished 5th... or the lack of titles for so many years. What they have been doing recently with the team is criminal. It hurts me to say that, but I have lost all confidence in this management. From Scum to Zaets(whom I loved as a player) to Vardinokaulis family... I cannot stand Kakalis, he is a low class criminal that has been buying his way around for years, but he is a better owner for gauros than the Vardinoyiannides are for PAO... I cannot understand how the PAO fans are not fuming over the treatment of our best players... Is it SO important to win this F... protathlima that we are going along with anything that these ass.... are doing to our team This is OUR team not theirs, they are NOTHING without us, the fans... Let them hear us :box: Even in business terms, outside of our love for the team... If PAO becomes an "undesirable employer" by bad reputation, all the money will not buy the players we need for our team to be a Europower Only losers of low caliber, the kind of Zataoutas, Epale, that have NO other offers, will be arriving ... But who cares right, as long as we win the title :tdown: ... perhaps they could bring a dignity unkown to everybody that has seen nothing but the Vardinogiannis and Kokkalis dirt in his/her life. ...now I want them out, because it is clear that their presence brings nothing but harm to PAO and greek sports. That is exactly the point I wish to emphasize. You see that in other teams that spend 10 times more than PAO. If the team is not build on "character" and teamwork along with love and respect for the teams history, fans, owners and COACH ... you have a recipy for disaster... I have enjoyed watching Real, the mighty multimillion euro superpower of "vendetas" crumble this year. That is one of the reasons why PAO has been able to play more like a team, instead of individual players for many years, while gauros is spending more and getting less teamwork, it is team phylosophy and character :tup: PEACE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 My friend PANO, you are talking just like the useless supporters of gate 13... First of all it wasnt Vardis it was Giorgos.... I will tell you good things that he did for PAO... 1st The best of what he did is to Dismantle the organised fans. He did not simply need them to hide himself behind the masses for his crimes just as Kokkalis does... This is his greatest advantage!!! 2nd He build Peania, a training centre that was build devades ago and is still much better than the one that these clowns did in Redi. 3rd He could have won more titles but he didnt because he did not bribe and corrupted everyone just like Kokkalis does. This fact that you mention is for his credit and a proof that PAO was winning the titles and not buying them!!!! And if he did bribe some refs he did it with style... :P 4th When he said the legendary POTE KSANA PROTATHLIMA STON PEIRAIA was years ago before Thrynos got the first championship... 5th You forgot to mention that during the Vardinogiannis era PAO was out of europe for only a YEAR. In 22 years of presidency we only finished once behind the places that lead to UEFA cup... (Go check how many times Thrynos or AEK were not even playing to UEFA during these 22 years). 6th Greek football had much more prospect that it has now, with teams like Larrissa and PAOK winning the league and so many other teams going to cup finals. Now all you see is PAO and Thrynos.... 7th I dont want to even mention the rezili Giannakopoylo who cannot even afford to keep a single descent basketball player in the team involved in a sport with much lower budgets than football. So reconsider for once and dont let the masses fool you... They are simply not original PAO fans who started go to football matches just to oppose Thrynos..... I am a PAO supporter for all my life and the worst thing of all is to be greedy.. PAO reached the semis twice during the vardinogianni era and had so many excellent and legendary wins over big clubs such as Juve, Ajax, Auxerre etc etc Eksw oi tsatsoi tou Vardinogiannh!!!! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 XE XE I agree... :P :P :P ZAEC TAKE A HIKE!!!! :ph34r: Latest news.... Did you know that Fillipidis was appointed yesturday as a general manager of Emporiki Bank in Greece? GEIA SOY RE AGGELE!!!! :tup: We will never forget your ataka.... "Doste telos sthn farsokomodia!!!!" :tup: :tup: See you in Da Capo..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Excellent post trifilli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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