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Elastonpappou 13

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Everything posted by Elastonpappou 13

  1. CH we are not an charity house... Why should we build a stadium and gift it to Dimo Athineon? Don't forget that we are also giving Leoforos to Dimo which is PAO's property!!! :angry: The only way Tzigger will accept this is only if he doesn't have to put a single penny on it... Then fine, let the bloody Dimos build the stadium and we can also name it Dora Bakogianni!!!! :angry: OYST!!!!! :box:
  2. So let me get it streight.... We give away leoforos worth of 20bn to the Municipality of Athens... Then we are expected to go to this shitty place near Eleona... Then we are expected to BUILD the stadium.. And all that for what? For the new stadium to belong to Dimo? F&&&K OFF!!!!! If you want a stadium belonging to Dimo build it yourselves ALHTES!!!! :box: Tzigger, don't put a single penny for the bloody stadium!!!! :angry:
  3. What do you mean by "people of Votaniko"? The only people at Votaniko are homeless refugees and tsigannoi!!! There are no properties to live there... The place its full of old factories!!! Well said by Mr. Souflias... People who live at goudi have a problem with the stadium at Goudi, Mayors at Helliniko have a problem of bringing the stadio to Helliniko, now people of Votaniko have a problem, lets get the stadium build in EVOIA!!!!! :P OYST KOPRITES!!!!!!! :box:
  4. I didn't!!! I still prefer Goudi, but at least Votanikos is much better than Helliniko.... Although it is very close to Eleona (the solution offered to us LONG AGO) it is within the municipality of Athens....
  5. Are you crazy re? You think that is ugly? Have you seen Kokkaliskaki? I am actually praying that the ground will look fairly like the one in the picture... I actually like it a lot!!!! :tup:
  6. Yesturday PAE (Tzigger), KAE (Pavlos) and Erasitexnis (Thanassis) all agreed to the solution of Votaniko... I must admit that it looks much better than Helliniko bearing in mind that Goudi is almost imposible due to the reasons we mentioned earlier.... Also the stadium is going to be 45.000, and a new metro station will open in the beginning of 2007!!! It will be the next station of Monastiraki in the blue line.... Now all that is left is for PAO to go and discuss with Bakogianni in the terms of financing... Dimos Athineon WILL have to finance part of the build up due to the high value of Leoforos and the low value of the area of Votanikos.... The meeting will take place sometime next week...... For now just have an idea of the "Leoforo Arena"!!!! PROSKYNATE APISTOI TON NAO!!!!! :nw: :nw: :nw:
  7. Are you crazy re.... You prefer the ghost-area of Votanikos than Goudi the area wher PAO was born and it has its history connected to it? Votanikos is a s***y place full of homeless refugees... You can't even walk there at night without having a gun!!! Why should PAO solve the problem and appreciate the entire area? And I tell you this... What will the government give to PAO for an exchange of Leoforos? If Leoforos is worth X then the same amount of space (not to mention the already build ground at leoforos) costs X/20!!! This means that if PAO decides to go there, not only he has to have almost the ENTIRE area of Votanikos but the government should also PAY for the build up of the stadium!!!! You can give away property worth of 20bn and receive land worth 1bn!!!! :o As far as Mrs Bakogianni is concerned, what can somebody say... She is a joke along with the rest of the clowns of the Government... She is speaking of parks in the area of Goudi and Leoforos and nobody gives her the finger and ask her? What happened to Omonoia where it was supposed to be full of Green and trees?(that is what she promised before her election!!!), What happened to the El. Venizelos park after the PASOKIA gave Licence to Mr. Arxi-pasoko-Labraki to build Megaro Moussikis? Where are all the undergound parkings and where are all the thousends of meters of Green promised by her couple of years ago? OYST!!!! :box: PAO is not going to be exploited and become a victim again... We are NOT going to solve any other Social / demographic problems of Dimo Athinaion.... :nono: :nono: :nono: THELETE DE THELETE TO GHPEDO TOY PAO THA GINEI STO GOUDI PALIO ALHTES!!!!!
  8. First of all I take this statement as a joke not a serious sentence.... The best Metro in Europe? :o You must be kidding!!!! If you say the most poshy, clean, new, then OK I agree (which is much worse than Moscow's even on poshyness)... But in terms of helping people move around? Its probably the worst in europe!!! The metro in Athens serves only few areas, whilist it doesn't even pass from the most populated areas (Zografou, Kipselli, Pagrati etc etc)... Even Helliniko that you mention, there is no Metro to there... The Metro will take you as far as the beginning of Vouliagmenis Av. which is just a little bit further than Dafni... Then you will either need to take the bus, or even worse get the useless tram (which takes 1.5 hours from Syntagma to Glyfada) to go there....Also Almamattar: The PAO ground is not onother instrument for arguiong with the Geys... I don't wont a 50,000 stadium just for the sake of saying that I have a bigger stadium than Kokkaliskaki.. People who have been following footbal know exactly how Kokkaliskaki was build... And to be honest with you SIZE doesn't matter... What would you do with a 50.000 stadium if 5,000 fans went there? Would you go to your gey friends and argue that PAO has a biger ground than OSFP? What is the point? At least the geys got a stadium at their own district, reflecting their beliefs, historyand traditions and they are happy with it.... That is what I want for PAO. Something that reflects what PAO is and what PAO was, his original roots, his birth place, his Athenean fan base... How can I say this... I EVEN LIKE THE SOUND OF "GAMIETAI O PAO KAI H LEOFOROS" if you know what I mean.... I wouldn't want to hear in couple of years time something like "Gamietai o pao kai to Helliniko!!!" but most of all I prefer "ETSI GAMEI H LEOFOROS!!!!" This has been going around for almost 100 years and Goudi can still be considered "leoforos" because its the same area... Helliniko sucks big time and is s%$#!!!!! Anyway today is the meeting with the Aliti Souflia!!! Tzigger will pressure for Goudi but he will try to get some reassurance that the work and the build up it is goingto be smooth without any interuptions from the mayers or the population.... Lets see what happens...
  9. You will see... The people you see going at Leoforos are mostly the people who live nearby... And its not just the distance but people will also refuse to go due to morality reasons... :P Can't you remember OAKA... We were 3.000 - 5.000 at OAKA which is fairly close to Abelokipi and to other PAO fan bases such as Kifissia, Maroussi, Psychico, Holargo, Halandri etc etc....
  10. M Kafe, Karaiskai WOULD fill if it was bigger but the gey-roi have a different mentality than us... The problem of Leoforos is not the capacity nor the poor condition of the stadium nor the ticket prices... You are right on attendances at OAKA on big European nights, but in normal league games (apart from derbies) we were never more than 15.000... ;) This is the mentality of the PAO fans unfortunately... If its too warm we will sweat so we don't go to the game, if its too cold we will catch a flu and we don't go to the game, if it is raining we will get wet and we don't go... We need the perfect weather conditions, the perfect players, the perfect stadium and most importantly the perfect OPPONENT... If we play against Juventus yes we may fill a 50,000 stadium at Helliniko but in normal league matches I don't see more than 3.000 going... Especially if the ground is at Helliniko!!! ;) By the way latest news from contra.gr....
  11. I think 50 would be too much bearing in mind that we usually tend to be 12-15000 (even back at OAKA).... But yes the PAO stadium is said to be for a bid of the 2012 euro... This is the only reason they are actually thinking of building a stadium.... But the bottom line is... Are they building the stadium for having a serious bid for the 2012, or are they actually doing it for PAOs welfare... I just hope that Tzigger pressures them, and not doing it THEIR way!!! ;) Screw Helliniko and Screw Votaniko and Eleona!!!! GOUDI or NOTHING!!!! :angry:
  12. Almamatter, you seem to forget that a serious ivestment doesn't look to capture the one-off fan who will visit Athens once a year and go to a PAO game.... The investment should be targeted to the PAO BASE fan, and they will be the ones supprting the team in the entire season!!! And they live near Abelokipi!!!Also the investment must consider the inflows on ANY business day other than the day of the match... Do you honsetly feel that a PAO supporter from Abelokipi or Goudi or Zografou will take the bus to go one hour away to have a coffe at Helliniko? Building the stadium at Goudi means that most PAO fans who live nearby (and they are the majority) will support and contribute to the investment every day.... Having Basketball, football, volleyball and the PAO fan base close, then it will be the best solution... And to be honest why should we compromise with the bloody government? Why wasn't anyone concerned with the build up of Karaiskaki? Why wasn't the mayor of Pireaus concearned about Parks and all other bullshit? Why does PAO have to give solution to the Athens Park problem? (And don't expect that Goudi will become a park even if PAO moves to Helliniko)... Living outside of Greece doesn't give you the entire idea of the problem... PAOs stadium is based on politician talks and I refuse to be dragged out of my history home, my base, my traditions into another bloody area that has nothing to do with Athens and PAO, just because some politicians want to... I say lets take Karaiskaki to Helliniko and lets build the new Leoforos in Peraus!!!! :P :box:
  13. Yes you are right, although Highbyru is North-east London it is more towards the north.... The station "Highbury" is in Victoria line of the underground if I remember correctly.....
  14. Athineos is rigfht on most things... However I don't agree with many of you that say, it doesn't matter that the ground will be a bit further out of Athens... Did anyone ever consider why Arsenal plays in east London, why Stamford Bridge is near Fulham and Chelsea or why Wembley is within London? Have you ever heard before Barcelona building a stadium OUTSIDE of Barca, or bayern playing to a stadium outside of Munich? I mean these things happen only in Greece... And commercially it might be better for the reasons that Athineos and many of you mention (i.e. the space, development of shops etc etc) but you keep forgeting something really important... WHO IS GOING TO GO TO HELLINICO EVERY WEEK? Certaintly NOT me!!! And it is not going to be due to my objection to Hellinico (I do recognise the difficulties building it in Goudi) but it will be due to difficulties going there every week... Gents, 70% of the PAO fan base, are located in Abelokipi, Gyzi, Goudi, Zografou... Do you think that all these people are willing to travel 45 minutes away to watch their teams? Or that they will travel to go for a cofee at one of the stores in the stadioum? If the ground was in Goudi then all this people even when there was NO match, could go to PAO cafe and have a coffee on an ordinary day.... That is why I am in favour of NO ground at all!!! Lets put the pressure on the bloody government for once instead of doing half jobs, settling with anything the government has to offer... remember people, the STADIOUM is a LIFETIME investment it will route PAO's history from now onwards and we won't have another opportunity to build one... This has to be done correctly or not done at all!!!! :angry:
  15. I totally agree with Panos!!! GOUDI OR NOTHING!!!! :angry:
  16. Latest news on PAO stadium... Today Tzigger is meeting with Souflias on the matter of the PAO ground... Apparently there has been a complete mix up about this subject and I doubt that a logical solution will be given... The Kota-government is unable to take serious measures and provide a fair solution to PAO ground... On the one hand we hear about Goudi (which is almost impossible due to pressures from the government and the mayors), we hear about Helliniko,and we hear about Votaniko.... Here are the facts... Goudi - Tzigger wants to go there but Souflias cannot guarantee the smooth build up of the stadium due to municipality, residents of Goudi and Mayor... Apparently if ONE person brings his objection to thje stadium at the "Council of Epikrateia" then the whole construction might be left aside until a court ruling comes out... And this might take years!!! Therefore, Tzigger is very sceptikal to move towards the Goudi area because obviously his investment might end up in the recycle bin!!! Helliniko - Government supports Helliniko due to the big space and the non-usage of the area there... Apparently for some unkown reason Souflias said that he can control the mayors at Helliniko so that no problem will be created... On the other hand Tzigger and the fans try to avoid Helliniko because of the obvious reasons... PAO is an Athenian team and it is not logical to have its stadium 10 km away from Athens!!! Votaniko - Votanikos is an area near Omonia, probably the worst and poorer area in the entire municipality of Athens and has nothing to do with PAOs tradinional fan areas (Goudi, Abelokipi, Gyzi, Zografou etc etc). Giannakopouli brothers are up for Votaniko but I think bot Tzigger nor the PAO fans are very eager to go there... So we are in a complete mix up... The fans and Tzigger want Goudi, but an investment would be very risky there, the government wants Helliniko, Giannakopouloi brothers want Votaniko etc etc... I completely blame the government for all that has happened! They are unable to make decisions, or have the balls to impose something... So what if some stupid people protest about the ground in Goudi? Tough luck! So did many people for the Tram in Poseidonos Av. in Faliro which was an Olympic construction. Of course the government then, even though people and mayors were protesting, made a decision and done whatever they wanted despite the protests!! But when it comes to PAO ground? No, they have to take into account every idiotic opinion that comes to the table, resulting in a 5 (or more) year delay in the construction of PAOs ground!!! If I was Tzigger I would simply say... Goudi or Leoforos re-build, or NOTHING!!! I would play my CL games in Touba and Pangritio just to turn the millions of PAO fans against the government... This is the only way forward... We don't want to accept a compromising solution for such an Important matter!!! SOUFLIA M****I! TO GHPEDO TOY PAO THA GINEI STO GOUDI!!!! And then we had bloody Dora Bakogianni (Athens Mayor) speaking about a park in Goudi!!! OYST!!! All we hear about in the last decade is park this ,park that, but no parks are found anywhere near Athens!!! It reminds me of PASOKO-Labraki (the owner of the Vima newspaper and Megaro Moussikis) who stated that El. Venizelos Park will be even better after the construction of the Megaro Moussikis and that the parking of the Megaro will be under the park... Well the PASOKIA gave Labrakis the permit to build near the El. Venizellos park in Abelokipi, and now the Megaro has destroyed the ONLY park in Athens!!!! This is Greece my friends.... A big Bourdello full of mizes and Lamoia!!!! some more on the subject by in.gr....
  17. My List... Greece OAKA (Football 5 season tickets 1988-1993) OAKA (Basketball) N. Smyrni Leoforos Old Karaiskaki Kallimarmaron (Opening ceremony of the 1995 world athletics) N. Philadelphia (Elton John & Sting concerts :P ) Harilaou (Aris - PAO) Rizoupoli Pilaia (PAOKs Basketball ground Final four 2000 with PAO) Piece and friendship in Faliro Panionios ground in Basketball N. Smyrni METS Basketball ground UK Wembley (Many times but best one Opening game of euro 1996) Old Trafford (several times but the best one Man Utd - Juventus 3-2 CL) Villa Park (Aston Villa - Atletico Madrid 0-0 UEFA cup Madrid goes through agg 0-1) Stamford Bridge (Chelsea - Liverpool 4-2 cup game) Spain Santiago BERNABEU (Real - Man Utd 0-0 CL) Camp nou (Barca - Celtic 1-1 CL) FRANCE Palais De Berci (Thats right gents!!! Basketball first european trophy 1996!!!)
  18. I also believe that Tzigger is crap but do you honestly think that Tzigger is running the show? Or did you think that Kapetanios was running the show before? PAE PAO has always been owned by Vardis! It always has and it always will (until he dies where Tzigger takes over officially when he will have the know how and the right maturity).... As far as the contracts of the basketball team that you mention Radja and Wilkins were getting almost 800 mn Dr for 2 or three years contracts (which is 2mn EUR approximately if I remember correctly). Basinas is getting 800.000 EUR a year!!! And on the onw hand you have the probably one of the greatest basketball players of all time and on the other you have Basinas!!! When you speak of Dominique and Radja it is like talking of Zidan and Totti in football standards. So imagine what sort of money you would have needed in order to bring such players in your squad... ;) This is why I favour both Giannakopouloi and Vardinigiannides. I have no doubt that they both care about PAO. It is just that they operate in completely different sizes and ballgames..... ;)
  19. Drako - Panos is right on the Parking issue. Parking is considered to be one of the major factors for a modern football stadium... This is one of the reasons that the 2 Goudi proposed areas are quite small..... Adoni - You are correct on Goudi, Helliniko is close to Glyfada!!! Taking Leoforos poseidonos towards Glyfada the area of Helliniko is just before the municipality of Glyfada.... Helliniko is more or less 8km away from the centre of Athens!!! Pano - I have never doubted that the Giannakopouloi brothers are not good or whatever. But you are wrong on your assumptions... Organising and keeping a football club is much more costly that a basketball club. With the money Vardinogiannides paid Konstadinou you could get the best Basketball players in the world with much less!!! Giannakopoulos hasn't contributed financially for years in the team. However I am not critising him because the product of basketball doesn't sell anymore and its quite normal for them to settle with only domestic success... I will also doubt with what you say on profits... Vardinogiannides never gained from PAO football club. The club has 18mn LOSS to its profit and loss acount along with the rest "ZHMIOGONES" Greek PAE... If PAE or KAE made a profit that would have been certaintly the KAE, but I really doubt that any of the Giannakopouloi or Vardinogiannides make any profits out of PAO. They are both crazy PAO fans and that is why they do it. It is not realistic to say that PAO is like business to them because the inflows compared with the outflows are minimal!!! ;)
  20. Helliniko has nothing to do with Athens!!! PAO is an Athenian team and HAS to be based within the borders of the municipality of Athens!!! The 2 Goudi areas that have been proposed are quite small and the PAE is not willing to invest to something that will take 2 lifetimes in order to bring profit... Look at kokkaliskaki for example... The place was the roght one, the size for the build up of the stores was good and Kokkalis is making sales worth of 1,000,000 EUR every matchday (excluding the tickets for that matchday!!!).... ;) And karaiskaki did not even belong to thynos in the first place... ;) But the government managed to find a solution for thrynos streight away!!!!
  21. Ok some inside rumors on the stadium issue... Apparently Souflias and the government has done a very smart thing!!! They have created all this fuss around the PAO stadium issue and now they have divided PAO in half!!! Therefore they won't hear any protests from the public or from the municipality of Athens while on the other hand PAO supporters will turn their anger against Tzigger... Let me explain.... KAE & Erasitexnhs points: The other day they all had a meeting.... Gianakopouloi brothers have accepted the area of Goudi and more specifically the Badmington olympic are to be transformed into an 8.000 basketball and volleyball stadium... On top of that they have argued that we are getting this place in order for the PAE to have a bigger area for the build up of the football ground... The Government: The government suggested 2 areas in Goudi and 1 in Helliniko for the football stadium.. However they forgot to mention HOW FAR away is the basketball ground from these two available areas in Goudi.... Also they have stated that for comemrcial reasons the Helliniko solution is going to be better and easier due to the fact that the area is much bigger (larger parking, more stores, quicker return on Investment...) PAE points PAE feels that the 2 areas in Goudi are quite small for that kind of thing... Also they are thinking about the protests of Goudi residents and the Municipality of Dimo Athineon who wants these areas for Mitropolitiko Parko!!! They are afraid that the construction might start but someday might also get stuck due to these external factors!!! So they are actually thinking about the Hellinico solution... IMPORTANT QUESTIONS Why does PAE after all this time is even thinking about Helliniko? Because the 2 proposed areas at Goudi are too small for the economical exploitation of the place.... Also because they are afraid of the reactions of the residents at Goudi and Bakogianni with her Mitropolitiko Parko bullshit!!!! On the other hand the elliniko solution is quite cheaper compared to Goudi.... KAE on the other hand implies that the football ground has to be build at GOUDI... However: Does anybody know how much KAE is going to contribute to the building of the football stadium? Because they are going to have a share from the profits of the stores, fast foods etc... CONCLUSIONS: From all the above we can see that there are several problems caused due to the incapability of the Government to find a solution.... The government has achieved to divide PAO in two and got their assess out of the problem by saying that "we are waiting for PAE to decide. We have proposed 2 areas in Goudi and 1 in Helliniko". But of course they forgot to mention all the other problems they have created for the investors of PAO... Therefore now we have most of the PAO fans turned agains the PAE (in our last basketball game there were banners against the PAE and Helliniko), we have the KAE look like the good guys (and they are certantly NOT the good guys) and we have the government look like they gave a reciprocal solution similar to the ones they gave at the geys.... PAE has to give an answer by the end of January latest but nobody know what that answer will be... I personally don't even want to hear about Helliniko but I can feel that this problem will get out of hand... Don't be fooled people, the government is 100% to blame....... Anyway I will get back to you with more senarios...
  22. 25bn DRACHMA!!!!! And who exactly would have paid 25 bn bying Leoforos? What good does a football stadioum does to an investor who is not going to bother with football? :P The only thing PAO could do is trade the thing with the state for another area.... And that is exactly what they will do.... ;)
  23. I think I have read somewhere that PAO's stadioum is going to be "Aytoxrhmatadotoumeno" which means that PAO will pay for it... So I can't really say that PAO was favoured by this decision. Evergreen, Leoforos was donated to Pao from Dimos Athinaion... It had no specific usage the whole thing belong to PAO... If PAO decides to make it a cabaret then its his decision the government has nothing to do with it... Government officials have estimated Leoforos for 25bn Dr. And PAO will give away 25bn worth of land and stadioum to get land (in a cheaper area) worthy not more than 5bn! So tell me. Who is favoured and who is not. Karaiskaki was never donated or anything else to Thrynos. It belongs to EOE and EOE did not get compesated at all for the whole thing... Thrynos just paid for the build of the stadium (actually they debated about that as wel, because in the beginning they wanted the government to Pay for this). Also take AEK for example. Big Mac got everything and the Greek tax payers gets to pay AEK's debt in Article 44!!! So I don't want to hear b*****t about all teams are favoured... PAO was not only mistreated but it was the only club during the Greek footballing history to have descent management and to be away from economical distress!!!! ;)
  24. Ok finalised... The badmington area is going to be given for the Volleyball and basketball grounds where the Government has suggested 2 places in Goudi and 1 in Helliniko for the football ground. They are waiting an answer from Tzigger. I think Goudi is final... ;) more... http://www.in.gr/news/article.asp?lngentit...58&lngdtrid=246
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