Panathinaikos - Iraklis

[pao123]

after the oly loss to aris this weekend could have been a massive chance for us to take advantage..had we won this weekend and taken the result with ergotelis we would have been top of the table.. :tdown:

salpis strike was gorgeous, mantzios goal was nice as well but should have scored at least twice more, htc should start playing ninis alittle more, he looked fresh and ready to play today..

[Clover22]

This could have been a lot worse...sh it happens and thats the way it goes. I noticed after Iraklis scored the second goal we looked a bit desperate and were trying to deliver these long balls in the air up the middle or from the wings, which doesn't work. They need to keep the damn ball on the ground and concentrate on shorter passes. It's really great to see Mantzios and he should stay as first choice. Souza can go home; he hasn't shown anything. Rukavina looked quite good and should get more playing time. Does he normally play like a #11 or a 9? Whats his natural position? Would it make more sense to start him up front w/ Mantzios?

[drakos13]

Souza really can go home. Mantzios is better, and when the guy gets service he plays. Problem is hes at a PAO for years without rewards for his good performances, and on PAO's that cant give him anything.

Im happy Vangelis is back.

Clover, I really dont think it could have been worse. Iraklis had 2 total fluke goals in a minute, against the run of play is exagerating it. Iraklis, really should be overjoyed that they scored a point. They looked dangerous in 1 out of 90 minutes and made 2 goals, while being very lucky to not conceed many more...

Although this is still bad.....we at least beat Aris in Saloniki, where OSFP failed. Today, we didnt gain big, but we still gained +1 on OSFP. Some positive to take out of the weekend. We have the chance to beat down on a wrecked Ergotelis who lost 5-2 (played with 10 men since the 20th though) on wednesday, and catch up more.

[Clover22]

Drakos we could have lost! Anyway I agree about Gabriel. What is so special about this guy and why is he playing him where Ninis and Moon play, both who happen to be much better players? And he finally puts in Ninis but takes Karagounis out. He should have put in Cleyton or Xristo in the middle if he takes Kara out, Ninis plays on the right. Is he confused or something?

[Clover22]

I have to add I thought it was totally crazy of him to play Gabriel in a CL game as well.

[NikosVazelas]

Gabriel has been one our best players in the last 3 games. i dont know what game you were watching

[drakos13]

I was watching PAO vs Iraklis. Gabriel was horrendous. Cant pass, no intelligence on short passes cant shoot to save his life...more than enough dumb (and selfish) decisions out there today An occasional good cross is all hes worth. We may as well be using Sotiris or Moon who can do it just as good if not better.

[NikosVazelas]

every chance in the first half came off his foot.. either by a shot.... or a pass... in the second half he played RB after the 60th and pushed forward more than nilson did and was the one who gave the ball to ninis which sent him through in injury time.

Rukavina is the only player, THIS ENTIRE SEASON, that made two through balls in one game .. and I remember you saying he sucked as well. so ill take your opinion with a grain of salt.

Besides Ninis and Cleyton, Ruki and Gabriel are the only players in this entire roster that can win you a game with a one on one. Monomaxia as they say. everyone else is a grinder.

Have you ever seen another player other than the 4 mentioned dribble? try to deke out an opponent?

Unfortunately, these 4 players have played a total of 570 mins combined this season.

[cyberfish]

Well, we lost this game (yeah, it's like a loss to me) for several reasons:

Inept individual play in the first goal. Nilsson is beat easily down the side and his effort to mark his man was way "soft" for lack of better word. Then the ball ends up on Sariegi's feet who attempts a short pass in the box. Why in the universe would he do that? The ball deflects on Vindra who had no business being on top of Sariegi to begin with and ends up served to Iraklis for the score. Tzorvas has absolutely no responsibility on this one. Not even Tiramola could block it after it was deflected on Vintra's foot. I have to agree with Drakos. Vintra is what we call a "gkademis".

Then on the second goal we had a combination of bad individual play (Tzorvas) and horrible defensive team play. A lob finds our defenders flatfooted and our goalkeeper in no mans land. As far as I am concerned, our CBs should be clearing all these lobs with authority before opponents figure out where the ball is. I hope they give some support to Tzorvas though. This was really his only serious mistake so far, and he is entitled to one or two here and there. I hope it does not become a habit though.

The third reason we lost (a draw at home against such horrible team is a loss to me) is the attitude we displayed overall on the pitch once the second half started. It was evident to me that Ivanschitz didn't help much until after we were behind, and everyone seemed to just try the cutest things on the pitch. I got a little tired of seeing how laxed everyone went to the ball on defense, in midfield, and worst in Iraklis' box when they had the chance to put the game away. Everyone was just jogging around until the scoreboard lit up the 1-2 sign. They should have been running all game long to put it away, and not only after they found themselves in a hole.

The last reason we lost today was because we missed way too many open-net shots. Mantzios, Salpigidis, Nilsson, Gabriel, and Ninis all missed excellent chances to find the net with only the keeper to beat. They failed. This game could have been 5-2 or 5-3 easily. Besides the two goals Iraklis stepped in our box a total of two or three other times. The second goal by Salpi was an amazing shot, but he missed at least two sitters before.

My hope is that this game will be a lesson so we can correct at least the attitude. Missing chances will always be part of the game and as long as we score a couple I don't know what can be done about them. Overall defensive play wont' improve until we get better players and after they play together for a while. After today I think we definitely need to see what the heck Melissis is made off before we approach January. My feeling is that if he has not impressed his coach, he won't make much difference anyway.

Olympiakos lost so we are one point closer, but we could have been three points closer. Now we are in fifth place and we just hope to catch Xanthi in third place if we beat Ergotelis on Wednesday.

This was the last easy game. Ergotelis is much more dangerous and if we play like this Ogounsoto will have a field day with our defense.

After Ergotelis we play @Panionios, @Werder, Olympiakos, @Larissa. At least four games we can expect to drop points. Worst, we have to continue playing tough games twice per week.

To close on a positive note, the second goal by Salpigidis is a pretty amazing shot. Too bad it wasn't the wining shot.

[drakos13]

every chance in the first half came off his foot.. either by a shot.... or a pass... in the second half he played RB after the 60th and pushed forward more than nilson did and was the one who gave the ball to ninis which sent him through in injury time.

Rukavina is the only player, THIS ENTIRE SEASON, that made two through balls in one game .. and I remember you saying he sucked as well. so ill take your opinion with a grain of salt.

Besides Ninis and Cleyton, Ruki and Gabriel are the only players in this entire roster that can win you a game with a one on one. Monomaxia as they say. everyone else is a grinder.

Have you ever seen another player other than the 4 mentioned dribble? try to deke out an opponent?

Unfortunately, these 4 players have played a total of 570 mins combined this season.

you mean either by

A TERRIBLE shot, where he should PASS instead to open players.

Every loss of posession came from him too.

Pushed forward more than Nilsson? Thats because he CANT play defense, and we were 2-1 down, he has to. Ninis did the play...Gabriel didnt muss up the pass to get there? Come on this is proof he did well? He was lousy.

What about trying to play SHORT passes in the air? Hesitation to pass? This is the "experienced" player PAO bought??? horrendous shooting? nothing? The guy missed a sitter vs PAOK that make him our best player?

Rukavina made 2 through balls? Is that supposed to be an accomplishment? That was his best game yet too sadly. I havent seen Rukavina take a player on all season or I dont remember. I just remember average performances. These guys are not awful, but were supposed to be getting BETTER. Gabriel doesnt make us better. Sousa, does not make us better.

Panionios is after Ergotelis...Thats bad news....Tough game before Germany and tough game after...We are sure to drop points in those 4.

[athinaios]

Sorry to be a Kassandra again. When I wrote my first post in the first half, I said the result was poor for the kind of play we delivered... and that such games can come back to bite us... :angry: The second point was that we've lost titles because we chocked and couldn't take advantage of gifts...

I consider this game a loss. At least in the sense of losing the opportunity to take advantage of gifts offered to us.

Vyntra has been a liability. Everybody makes mistakes, but this kid has a specialty of making mistakes when they matter big!

Salpi's goal was amazing. But, PAO shouldn't be looking for just a tie in a game like this. Missing so many opportunities has been one of our weaknesses.

Mantzios. I like the kid, but he does not have a killer instinct. I decided this a while ago, when, again, he missed so many chances in pivotal games that cost us a title. And, do you remember losing the cup to Larissa? It took skill to be able not to push the ball into an empty net....

Look guys, we have a problem, yes our competitors aren't much better, but I'm afraid we'll do ourselves in once again. :angry:

[Genome]

The goals, seperatly:

[PAO_OR_DEATH]

a PHARKING HUGE chance blown thanks to aris and thrasivoulos.

The goals were very very very soft.

......very soft

I dont even want to talk about it.

I am very mad atm with how shyte we have been playing, ffs all those open nets missed, and those penalties not given!!!!! could and shoud have been 5-2

[drakos13]

Thrasyvoulos.......i forgot, is AEK even in the titel race this year?

:LOL:

Seriously, OSFP is the only team that will be there in contention FOR SURE at the end. Its up to us to be in contention alongside them.

No offense to AEK, things arent looking like they will turn around soon enough for you to be back in contention when it counts. Cant say PAO is in much better spot, but I beleive we will be if we beat Ergotelis.

[DUDE]

Thrasyvoulos.......i forgot, is AEK even in the titel race this year?

:LOL:

Seriously, OSFP is the only team that will be there in contention FOR SURE at the end. Its up to us to be in contention alongside them.

No offense to AEK, things arent looking like they will turn around soon enough for you to be back in contention when it counts. Cant say PAO is in much better spot, but I beleive we will be if we beat Ergotelis.

It's a pathetic result, but what are you laughing at exactly? Prior to yesterday at least Thrasyvoulous had won a game. Ira still haven't and had only scored 2 goals prior to playing PAO, so it's arguable that Thrasyvoulos away is a tougher game than Ira at home. :LOL:

The Greek league is in the worst condition I've ever seen it, the quality is laughable this year

[drakos13]

I was laughing as if AEK was in the title race dont be a retard now...people are all saying OSFP lost and AEK tied....AEK has dropped on 5 games and theyve played more than us......Thats all.

[NikosVazelas]

Thrasyvoulos.......i forgot, is AEK even in the titel race this year?

:LOL:

Seriously, OSFP is the only team that will be there in contention FOR SURE at the end. Its up to us to be in contention alongside them.

No offense to AEK, things arent looking like they will turn around soon enough for you to be back in contention when it counts. Cant say PAO is in much better spot, but I beleive we will be if we beat Ergotelis.

It's a pathetic result, but what are you laughing at exactly? Prior to yesterday at least Thrasyvoulous had won a game. Ira still haven't and had only scored 2 goals prior to playing PAO, so it's arguable that Thrasyvoulos away is a tougher game than Ira at home. :LOL:

The Greek league is in the worst condition I've ever seen it, the quality is laughable this year

We did however Beat Aris at home and Drew in Toumba...

Slip ups happen every season.. But i , as opposed to many others, am a patient person.. I dont expect the years of tzigger to be completely corrected in ONE summer.

In a more in depth analysis, i see it this way.

Bringing in Gilberto has opened the door to future possible big name signings in Greece. He is 32 years old and brings respect and prestige to a team liek pao in Europe.

Cleyton, Ruka, Spyropoulos, Moon, Melissis, Petropoulos and Simao is a step in the right direction bringin in Youth that can one day propser.. With young players, one out of 7 or 8 actually flourish into great players.

Gettin rid of dead weight like Pap, Romero, Seric, Morris and Eki is definately a way of eliminating cancers and/or poor players.

If you think of it logically, Oly went from a team i feared last year with Lua Lua, Galetti, Kova to a team that got worse.

We went from a team that was piss poor ad couldnt score to a team that has 10 goals in 6 games including 3 away derbies. Not too bad.

yes we are not a greta team, but rome wasnt built in a day and neither can a football team.

We finally brought in a manager who has a little backbone. And although im sure he wont last past this season.. Which will be a mistake, its been a while since we had a manager who actually knows and understands football.

As for Thrasyvoulos being a tougher game than Iraklis. If u take away last week, Thrasyvoulos had given up 8 goals and scored none in their first 5.

Iraklis lost in AEK, Lost in Aris by 1-0 where they could of easily won both and had 3 draws where in two of them officiating was against them.

So basically what im saying is that 65% of statistics are made up on the spot... And more often then not.. THEY DONT MEAN a THING

[cyberfish]

Reportedly, this is what Ten Cate told the players about the game.

[athinaios]

TKate makes sense even though on occasion I don't see his point with how he sets up the team and the subs later. As long as he states something we can all see, he's got my confidence.... unlike Malezani, Bakke, etc... who'd say things than only themselves could see... and, of course, totally wrong.

As for the defense... Sorry, but these mistakes happen with amature players, not porfessionals. OK, make 1 totally stupid mistkake every 20 games or so, but not so often! Com'on, this has nothing to do with the offense not producing.

We happen to play against a team that gave us the opportunity to have lots of great scoring chances. What would happen against a good team in a tight game??!!!! Oh, wait.... we know what happened!!! :whistle: It's not an excuse this time either.

Sariegi and Vyntra are lethal together. We saw this loooooong time ago. One example was the cup game against gavroi last season. :angry:

[Akritis_1944]

Sariegi and Vyntra are lethal together. We saw this loooooong time ago. One example was the cup game against gavroi last season. :angry:

So true!

It's the amateur hour when they're together in the back.

[cyberfish]

Sometimes I am reminded of 'stupid pet tricks' :LOL:

slap stick comedy. All that's missing is players slapping each other on the back of the head after some of these goals they are conceding/scoring.