nightsurfer Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 . :hypocrite: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooner-Panatha Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 who nicknamed him "Messiah"?? <_< every player needs time to adjust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalin Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I don't understand what all of you guys here have against Zuta. Week in and week out you bury the poor guy like he is trash. I dont think he is great , but he is not trash either. From a scale of 1 to 10 , I would say he is 6 , but you guys keep putting him at -1. He does what he is supposed to do. Just for your info Evergreen, in yesterdays match Zuta had in 45 minutes 6 passes, 4 errors, 2 steals, 1 clearance, 2 fouls committed. Lucian (he did score a cracking goal, and that was the only good thing he did) had 4 passes, 7 errors, 1 steal, 0 clearances, and 5 fouls committed. Equi had 5 passes, 8 errors , 0 steals, 0 clearances, and 3 fouls committed. For the season , Zuta has in 1716 minutes 168 passes , 98 errors, 39 steals (team leader), 12 clearances. Basinas has in 1840 minutes 284 passes and 154 errors, 37 steals , 17 clearances. Lucian has in only 939 minutes 68 passes , 93 errors, 14 steals, 4 clearances. Michaelsen has in 1493 minutes 148 passes and 100 errors, 37 steals, 12 clearances. Zuta is hired to act as defensive midfielder and he does what he is supposed to do. He is leading the team in steals for Christ sakes, and yet you keep critisising him. You guys keep saying that he only makes errors and yet he is ranked 4th in errors having Basinas with 154, Pap with 118 and Michaelsen with 100. I understand that Paps game differs from Zutas but I think that you get my point. Just because he is not a glamorous player or just because Schoum decides to play with 2 defensive midfielders (we are not used to seeing that in PAO) does not mean that Zuta sucks. I personally think that Zuta and Basinas dont have to play together in each match. I think that one of them is enough and I would prefer Basinas , but that does not mean that Zuta is the worst player that we have in the locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 . :hypocrite: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Nice post Lalin. You argued your point well and used statistics to send your point across to all of us. I just want to add that Lucian and Zuta are extremely two different players. You say Zuta has 168 passes compared to Lucian 68, with Zuta playing approx 800 minutes more. Lucians passing game is different to Zutas. Zuta is a defensive player hence most of the time, not all, is spent picking up pieces once the defence calms most of the danger coming its way. Alot of his passes are short passes to midfielders next to him, or spreading the ball wide to wingers who are unmarked. There is a little chance in error in passes like those. We would be extremely critical of him if he couldnt string passes like those but if he cant he wouldnt be playing professional soccer. Lucian has to provide a link from midfield to attack. Therefore a majority of the time he spends looking to thread balls in between defences and looking for the runs of his attackers in front. Many of those balls go astray, many are intercepted by the defence, and not to mention as soon as Lucian receives a ball or wins a ball he is much quickly closed down than wat Zuta would be. He has less time on the ball. Basinas also has a high error rate as he is always pumping balls long and forward, most of the time which are just headed away by defenders unless Mihalis or Pap can contest it which ends up been a 50-50. Lucian has potential we all can see. Its unfortunate he is injury prone and he perhaps is slightly behind the squad in match fitness. However Zuta is 31, experienced and should be at the peak if not just after the peak of his game, therefore we all would have higher expectations of Zuta than Lucian, this season at least. Zuta like it or not for the rest of us is a regular and with regular playing time we expect him to provide quality, or another dimension to the team, unfortunately to me he only provides something that Basinas already does. Also, Lucian is third in the league for assists, he has 7 which is one more than Basinas, and thats 7 assists in 900 odd minutes. Both players are the only ones in the top 10 for the league in assists. That is a pretty good stat to have next to your name if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalin Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I agree. They are two different type of players. And they are also hired for different purposes. Zuta is hired to primarily intercept the opposing teams attacks and secondarily to create. He is our team leader in steals, so I guess he is not doing a terrible job after all. Lucian is hired to create opportunities and / or score goals. My argument is not a comparison between the two, it is more whether Zuta is useless or not. He is not useless, he does a fair job at what he is supposed to do. The question is whether we need Zuta, Gonzalez, Basinas, Michaelsen, Sapanis in the lineup that makes us more defensive minded or Lucian, Sapanis, Gonzalez, Basinas, Michaelsen that gives us more creativity. My opinion is it depends on the opposition and what the goal is. I think that a lot of people are condemning the player Zuta when actually they are condemning the lineup (or type of lineup) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Lalin..i somewhat agree with you but stats are not the best way to look at who is a "better" player....in my opinion zuta should not be wearing our green jersey, but he is and thats a fact..i dont like him but i prefer other players on the pitch besides him..im not saying he is trash, but he should definilty not be starting...i dont care about the stats...what i saaw was lucian coming in as a sub and scoring a spectacular winning goal...he can get the ball stolen from him a zillion times for all i crae...if he can come out and keep doing what he did, then it doesnt matter to me...but zuta on the other hand does not create..he is not a presence on the field which is what we need...sure he connected with more passes mand maybe fouled less, but he isnt what the team needs...im not saying he is a trash player, but not the kind of player we want or need... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalin Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 PAO123, I think we are saying more or less the same thing. I also prefer to go with Lucian as opposed to Zuta, beca?se I don't think we need to play with two defensive midfielders , especially not in the greek league. All I am saying is that Zuta is getting the job done fairly well when it comes to destroying the oppositions attacks. Lets play with the idea though that we play Oly in Leoforos and lead 2-0 at HT. I would then sub Lucian with Zuta to maintain control of our midfield. Or if that match would be 0-0 at HT , I would have done what Schum did yesterday at HT, replace Zuta with Lucian. I hope you understand my point. P.S. The main thing is that after 10 wins in a row, we finally lead the league , and that is what matters. Lets hope we maintain that winning streak. :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos13 Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 About protathlitis: I have always been amazed how one sided they are. I mean all big teams in Greece have newspapers that are fanatics but these scumbags are reassly scumbags. The good thing is that they are actually just making fun of themselves and everyone is Greece, even Oly fans have realised how embarrassing they are. They are not real fans, they are professional fans because they get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsos Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Panionios appealed for a penalty which was a tricky one to call. Let's just say that with Pasok it would have been awarded, today it wasn't. There was nothing tricky about it. The penalty should have been awarded. Having said that I am glad PAO won the game. I hate it when teams like Panionios play for a tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Panionios appealed for a penalty which was a tricky one to call. Let's just say that with Pasok it would have been awarded, today it wasn't.There was nothing tricky about it. The penalty should have been awarded. Having said that I am glad PAO won the game. I hate it when teams like Panionios play for a tie. Well, Mitso...that penalty would not be awarded in the English Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsos Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I beg to differ! That was a clear cut foul with the player’s momentum taking him towards the opposing teams goal. I don't understand how you can't see that. During the coarse of a game a ref will make mistakes. This one happened to benefit PAO. I am not trying to take anything away from PAO's victory. But reality is that it should have been called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 The referee's booklet says that a penalty should be awarded only when there is no doubt in the referee's mind that it is 1005. This was not a clear cut decision to make. The angle was tricky. It was a 50-50 call and most people agree with that. Bout in England there is no way it would have been given. I'd put my... balls on the gilotine on that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsos Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 50 - 50? :lol: :lol: I bet if the same thing happened in Panionios favor it would have been 100% in your mind! :lol: :lol: I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsurfer Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 The penaltieS COULD have been awarded...... both actions not so clean..... in the Bundesliga we see a lots of such penalties....but it all depends on the emotions of the referee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montreal_Thrillos Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 New government same results Uncalled penalties / penalty controversy!! Only this itme OSFP is not involved I guess the new government will now try to push Panathinaikos with giving Free Penalites to PAO and not calling them when its against PAO Same old story !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 New government same results Uncalled penalties / penalty controversy!! Only this itme OSFP is not involved I guess the new government will now try to push Panathinaikos with giving Free Penalites to PAO and not calling them when its against PAO Same old story !! Indeed, and we love it!!!!! :tup: :tup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Indeed, and we love it!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 very true adoni.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 I guess the new government will now try to push Panathinaikos with giving Free Penalites to PAO and not calling them when its against PAO Same old story !! Assumption of the mother of all f__k ups!!!No, it wont be the other way round. This time you will not have the advantage of having the refs on your side to give you a penalty or send an opposing player off when times are hard. Your are witnessing your demise. It's over. The dictatorship is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 i hope so evergreen ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montreal_Thrillos Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 blah blah blah U guys sound like u are the cleanest club in the world and u dont buy the refs penalties. Please!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 This is why I am sick and tired of the GAYs... They never admit to some things and that is why I said that I will love it if PAO wins all the games with the assistance of the refs!!! I cant wait to see Kapetanios back in charge, to watch him go to the stadiums with the KARABINES!!!! :P :tup: :tup: PASOKOKKALISTAN TELOS!!!!! :tup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos13 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Thrilosmtl: Oly fans like you are the reason why I am so happy every time Oly lose in Europe. I always pray that they lose and jump with joy when they lose a goal. It's because everyone of their fans is like Protathlitis. I even joyed when they lost to the Turks. It's sad but very true. By the way, if we had bought the refs, we would at least meake sure we won more championships. We won 5 in 24 years. You won 7 in 7 years with so many bad decisions. You can't fool the country, everyone saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 we have had three penalties given to us this year as oppesed to your 9 i think it is..i have already made a post about the statistics of penalties in the greek league...now whats more suspicious.....9 penalties (5 above the avg) or 3 penalties(one below it) ^hmmmmmmmmmm ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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