Former PAOK Players/Coaches

[Dutch Eagle]

Meanwhile Tzolis seems to catch up his career. Two goals (including a penalty) today in only 22 (+ added time) minutes after being subbed in at '68.

[paokarag4]

21 hours ago, pash said:

I legitimately cannot even follow this chain of events. Wild.

https://inpaok.com/785795/den-vazei-myalo-o-ouarnta/

I hope when he retires - be it now, in a year, or in ten years - that some intrepid scholar like Blackhawk will have a book ready for us on this kid's life story.

Our boy @PaokCT will do it, Warda is his golden boy!!

[pash]

He is now, uh, stranded?

https://inpaok.com/785885/egklovismenos-se-aerodromio-o-ouarnta/

[Dutch Eagle]

Another goal for Tzolis in 2. Bundesliga. 

[pash]

Malezas may be making a jump to the 2nd division (though wiki tells me these guys have a new coach this year already, so who knows how true this is):

https://inpaok.com/787070/to-epomeno-vima-tou-maleza/

[Dutch Eagle]

Diego Biseswar played for Suriname in the CONCACAF Nations League despite being without a club/contract. 1-1 against Grenada. Just played the first half, leaving the pitch at 0-0.

[Dutch Eagle]

Nélson Oliveira is continuing his career at Konyaspor.

[Dutch Eagle]

Khaled Narey made his debut as international. Not for Germany but for Togo, the country of his ancesters. 

[Dutch Eagle]

Christos Tzolis and Georgios Koutsias scored the first and second for Greece U21 in their euro qualifier against their peers of the Faroe islands.

FT 3-0. Koutsias eventually sent of with a straight red card.

[Blackhawk]

The Koutsias red was a stupid one concerning the opponent. He will miss the important game against Portugal as a result.

[Athens4]

3 hours ago, Dutch Eagle said:

Khaled Narey made his debut as international. Not for Germany but for Togo, the country of his ancesters. 

How it should be.

The way it is going, national team competitions are becoming like any other. Players are pretty much picking and choosing who the represent rather than being forced to by their blood.

[pash]

I'm sure the only reason he played for them, is because he would never get a shot with Germany...

[Athens4]

You are 100% correct, but that's not the point. The point is that you should be playing for your roots and not for a transfer.

[Nea Bafra]

...

Edited November 16, 2023 by Nea Bafra

[paokarag4]

2 hours ago, Athens4 said:

You are 100% correct, but that's not the point. The point is that you should be playing for your roots and not for a transfer.

Nationality isn't as simple as "play where you're roots are from"

Legally I'm Australian, but both my parents are Greek. Therefore my "blood" is Greek. Who should I have played for? (if I actually could have controlled a ball)

There are people who have lived in other countries for generations and don't feel or have any connection to their ethnic backgrounds. Why should they be forced to play for their "motherland" just because their great great grandparents were born there. Similarly, some people are super connected to their backgrounds and feel more connected to that nation then the country they live in. 

In Narey's case, he is a product of German football. He was born and grew up there, went to school there, learnt to play football there etc. No issue with him playing for Germany if he was good enough. No issue with him playing for Togo either. 

[Nea Bafra]

It would be like every pontian needing to play for either the ottomans or the ruskis

[Athens4]

15 hours ago, paokarag4 said:

Nationality isn't as simple as "play where you're roots are from"

Legally I'm Australian, but both my parents are Greek. Therefore my "blood" is Greek. Who should I have played for? (if I actually could have controlled a ball)

In my view you would have played for Greece.

15 hours ago, paokarag4 said:

There are people who have lived in other countries for generations and don't feel or have any connection to their ethnic backgrounds. Why should they be forced to play for their "motherland" just because their great great grandparents were born there. Similarly, some people are super connected to their backgrounds and feel more connected to that nation then the country they live in. 

This may be the case in normal everyday life but it just isn't the case in football. Do you honestly think that Baldock would be putting on a Greek jersey if he were good enough to play for England? The same goes for Zeca - he shouldn't even be playing for Greece in the first place as he isn't Greek. It becomes a joke when players can pick and choose which country they represent. It might as well be club football.

15 hours ago, paokarag4 said:

In Narey's case, he is a product of German football. He was born and grew up there, went to school there, learnt to play football there etc. No issue with him playing for Germany if he was good enough. No issue with him playing for Togo either. 

His parents are from Togo so he should play for Togo. The fact that he was a product of German football does not mean he should play for the German national team. His blood is Togolese. Going by your logic, European clubs can bring in 11-12 year olds from Africa or South America, train them up then say "Well, we taught them how to play so they should play for our country". I thought the whole idea of a national team was to display talent that is native to the country, not imported or inherited.

To prove how inconsistent it is, you can even look at examples where brothers played for different countries. Jerome and Kevin-Prince Boateng (Germany and Ghana), Granit and Taulant (Switzerland and Albania), Pogba bros - these examples prove that players choose their country based on how to progress their career (ie. get a transfer). It's ok and it is understandable - a player wants to earn as much as possible (we all do). But don't expect me to sit and watch a World Cup or Euro where nearly all players in the French NT are African, there are two Swiss players amongst the Serbs and Albanians, Germany is literally a World XI, with many more countries like Greece and Spain following suit.

Huge respect for players like Hakimi, Armando Broja and Aubemayang who chose their true identities over a potential transfer. Aubemayang especially, as he is proof that as long as you are good you will get the move you want.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Athens4
You could say the Boateng brothers are exceptions as their mother is German. You could say 'mischlings' do indeed have the right to choose.

[pash]

@paokarag4 is right on all points. Life is complicated. Self-identity can be, too. "Jus sanguinis" does not need to apply to all of human experience.

[Athens4]

We agree to disagree. At the end of the day I am fully aware that my views on this will never come into play, so I just stopped watching national teams.

[paokarag4]

8 hours ago, Athens4 said:

 

This may be the case in normal everyday life but it just isn't the case in football. Do you honestly think that Baldock would be putting on a Greek jersey if he were good enough to play for England? The same goes for Zeca - he shouldn't even be playing for Greece in the first place as he isn't Greek. It becomes a joke when players can pick and choose which country they represent. It might as well be club football.

His parents are from Togo so he should play for Togo. The fact that he was a product of German football does not mean he should play for the German national team. His blood is Togolese. Going by your logic, European clubs can bring in 11-12 year olds from Africa or South America, train them up then say "Well, we taught them how to play so they should play for our country". I thought the whole idea of a national team was to display talent that is native to the country, not imported or inherited.

I agree on your first point, those cases as well as other across the world are clearly the player seeing an opportunity to play international football and potentially go to a major tournament. While a bit of a joke, until FIFA alter their rules this will continue to happen. 

The 2nd point here I strongly disagree with. A national team should demonstrate a nations' ability to produce footballers. While of course there is room for players who are ethnically from that nation but have grown up somewhere else I disagree with what a national team should be.

Messi almost played for Spain, because he had been there from 13. Again wouldn't be the first time that happened. It is also very rare that it happens so I don't think it's a pandemic or anything to fret about. Clubs don't go about signing youth players in the hope of strengthening their NT, they care about number one, themselves. 

As you said Athens, we have to agree to disagree. Nothing wrong with that mate!?

[Athens4]

10 hours ago, paokarag4 said:

The 2nd point here I strongly disagree with. A national team should demonstrate a nations' ability to produce footballers. While of course there is room for players who are ethnically from that nation but have grown up somewhere else I disagree with what a national team should be.

But isn't that something clubs do? If PAOK go all the way in the Conference League isn't that a testament to the players and football we produce? This is exactly what I mean with national teams and clubs being conflated.

[Nea Bafra]

how far back do we go? do you know that Narey's parents whilst maybe born in Togo aren't actually ethnically from one of the neighbouring countries like Ghana or Benin?

who do Pontians play for? When Yugoslavia was a thing did no one play for them because the country was manufactured? or should only Serbs have been allowed to play?

your stance is an easier one to take when your country is not very ethnically diverse. if you applied the same rule in Australia, we'd probably barely be able to scratch a national team together.

[Athens4]

I did say that my view would never come into play. The fact that countries are now so 'diverse' is one of the reasons why. Again, I have stopped watching national team competitions and am happy with my decision. The fact is that while indeed some countries like Germany, England and Australia (even Ireland now has black players!) are now a mixed bag, I prefer the days when you looked at a starting 11 and saw 11 names that were native to that country. Now it is like club football.

Each to their own!

[Blackhawk]

Chuba Akpom scores for Ajax for 1:0 lead against AEK.

[Blackhawk]

And Akpom gets a second one making it Ajax - AEK 3:1