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You all know my "love" for O A.R.I.S., but after this post, I couldn't just say nothing.

@Mitsos hats off, man. I wish some PAOK fans had your decency (including myself). By far the best thing I've heard in a loong time!

  

On 12/28/2019 at 2:15 PM, Mitsos said:

https://www.allaboutaris.com/podosfairo/150091/proti-tou-ntourmisai-me-ta-kitrinomayra

I guess it is official :thumbdown:

i thought playing in the 3rd division was the lowest point for our club but what is happening now with Karipidis takes the cake in my opinion. Another former OSFP player joins the club under the pretense of a transfer. Is Bruno next? Instead of purple maybe our third jersey should be red & white stripes. And why do none of the organized fan organizations object in any way? I am disgusted.

 

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So let me get this right.

1) Referees are on strike and won't return until their safety can be guaranteed.  Being Greece, this is not possible.  So basically it means they won't return.

2) Olympiakos won't attend Super League meetings until "the league is cleaned up".

3) Any time a bad referee decision goes against Olympiakos, they can bring the league to a stop.

Not sure when or how this will end.  If Olympiakos want a league where they play 30+ games and they don't get one bad decision going against them, then I guess they'll be waiting forever.

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It's a trivial matter to get foreign refs. Just sayin'...

And yes I get it that they shouldn't be targeted for doing their jobs. Why not a swap? Let our guys work a few matches in another country, until this is sorted out?

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Λύσεις υπάρχουν. Το θέμα είναι τι θέλουν οι ομάδες, δηλαδή οι ιδιοκτήτες.

Αυτό που θέλει ο Ολυμπιακός είναι να πάρει την ΕΠΟ, να ελέγχει την ΚΕΔ και τα πάντα και να σηκώνει πρωτάθλημα κάθε χρόνο. Προφανώς αυτό θέλει και ο Καρυπίδης. Τι θέλει ο Μελισσανίδης και ο Αλαφούζος είναι το ερώτημα. Προτιμούν πρωτάθλημα ανταγωνιστικό όπου ο Σαββίδης πιθανότατα θα έχει το πάνω χέρι καθώς ξοδεύει περισσότερα από τους άλλους;

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm wondering if Lamia are going to crucify and sack their keeper again like they did to Vellidis after our game. He copped 4 goals, Vellidis was chased out for only conceding three! It must be over him, or are Olympiacos and Lamia good old friend and "Ela mwre twra, ta efage to palikari ti na kanoume twra?" 

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Εντωμεταξύ στα παιχνίδια Κυπέλλου που δεν έχει VAR έχουν γίνει όργια. Παιχνίδια χαμηλής πίεσης και οι διαιτητές και επόπτες δίνουν ότι να 'ναι. Η καλύτερη απόδειξη σε όσους (Ολυμπιακοί κυρίως και κάποια ανόητοι λοιποί που έχουν φάει προπαγάνδα) λένε: "Μα γιατί; Οι ξένοι διαιτητές καλύτεροι είναι; Δεν βγάζει καλούς διαιτητές η Ελλάδα; Δεν χρειαζόμαστε ξένους"!

Και ξένους διαιτητές χρειαζόμαστε και VAR χρειαζόμαστε γιατί οι Έλληνες είναι ΤΣΟΥΤΣΕΚΙΑ!!! Ιερόδουλες του 50άρικου διαιτητές, έχετε αποδείξει πολλάκις ότι είστε άχρηστοι ή στημένοι. Το μόνο άλλοθι είναι ότι το μεγάλο αφεντικό σας ρίχνει ξύλο και η δικαιοσύνη δεν κάνει τίποτα. Παρατήστε τα. Ζητήστε μόνοι σας να παίζουν μόνο ξένοι. Ποιο τσουτσέκι Έλληνας επόπτης θα πάει χωρίς VAR να σηκώσει σωστό οφσάιντ σε μεγάλα ντέρμπι; Β' Εθνική και πολύ σας είναι! ΤΣΟΥΤΣΕΚΙΑ!!!

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Yianko, we follow and love a League that is run by the underworld so we probably don't have the right to complain, not one person affiliated with the SL is in it for the good of the game. The problem isn't the refs but everyone else in my humble opinion.  I watch other leagues, as I'm sure you do as well, and see refs making blunders all the time and VAR has become a joke regardless of country.  I know officials are intimidated in Greece but don't for a second think it only happens in our country.  Just like you claim you do not want Greeks reffing PAOK games because you don't  trust them others now can make the same claim with the foreigners brought in to officiate PAOK games.  Just out of curiosity, how satisfied were you with the official of the Ajax - PAOK game?  

 

 

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@Mitsos first of all, I admire and value your opinions. Period here so no one thinks I'm hitting on you.

No League is for the good of the game. We all know the huge scandals that have happened throughout the history of football worldwide. Spain and Italy are probably the winners (alongside Greece), but there are plenty in every country. And of course Champions League is no exception. FIFA neither!

I say I don't want Greek refs overall. Not only in PAOK games. You saw what happened at Aris-Xanthi of today at Panathinaikos-Giannena. I don't want to believe these people had orders to do these mistakes. It's just they don't have the abilities to do it. They have limitations. They are just not good enough.

You are a person of dignity. Would you prefer a Greek ref or a foreigner ref in the derbies? And to answer your question, if people don't want foreign refs is because they lost what they had. Every whistle in their favor. Of course Olympiakos is the one who keeps screaming like a baby. Please let me remind you, last year Olympiakos - PAOK 0-1, Prijovic was called offside while going to a potentially 0-2. Did you hear any of us crying? Yes, we did mention, but that's all it is. On the other hand, Olympiakos every time they don't win they sue refs and threaten lives. What's your opinion on that? This year, AEK-PAOK 2-2 we were equalized by a goal that shouldn't have counted as there was offensive foul in the beginning of the play. Are we crying? You wanna go to the last PAOK-AEK 1-0? AEK are asking for two penalties, two red cards, disallowed goal, and who knows what else. Please go watch the game and tell me if they have any reason to do so. Watch the game and honestly tell me if the ref was playing in PAOK's favor. As a matter of fact when we scored the goal, not even Vranjes (who was allegedly fouled) said a word. IMO they are trying to hide their team's limitations behind a SFAGI. But there's non such. We won three times in a row the Cup against them and they still complain about the refs. BTW, it's exactly what gayroi were doing when AEK beat them 1-2 at Karaiskaki. They were asking for an offensive foul against Giakoumakis. Please go watch the goal I'm talking about. If that was a foul, yes, Swiderski's was also a foul. IMO, no foul whatsoever.

They just cannot afford to lose. They always want to win. And now that PAOK, the small-village team from Bulgaria has grown they will do anything they can to change it. We lost from you guys 4-2. Were you better team? No. Did we play better football? Yes. Did we have more chances? Yes. But that's the beauty of it. We accepted our loss and said nothing. We didn't sue anyone as Olympiakos are doing every week. We are not going to send people pay a visit at the refs place, brake his knees or whatever...

I mean, come on, last year we beat them twice and they called our title "πρωτάθλημα των Πρεσπών". In the second match at Toumba, which pretty much sealed the deal, they lost 3-1 in what could have been easily 5-1. They were outplayed in every aspect. And still they call it stimeno. Of course they don't want 50-50. They don't want foreign refs. They don't want VAR. Because they have Karapapas and Theodoridis screaming and putting pressure on everyone in the field. They go yell at half-time at refs (btw I read what you said about Karipidis and bravo once more), they threaten, and then "η καρδιά του πρωταθλητή μιλάει ως διά μαγείας". That's what they do decades now. Of course they want to go back to that. But honestly, you guys aren't getting anything even if they succeed to bring Greek football where it was. You might have friendly relationships, get players and whatnot, but when it comes down to titles, they will give you a big nothing. Even if you somehow manage to play a Cup final for example, they are going to win no matter what, like they did against Asteras Tripolis.

Edited by Yiankos
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For what it's worth I spoke against foreign refs from the moment I heard it was going to happen and am glad Aris is not included in the big 4.  I have an issue with how we Hellenes put each other down and do everything in our power to discredit one another in many aspects of life without proof of anything.  I might be getting a bit off topic but it comes back to this as well.

I would say 80%, if not more of the time, the losing team complains and I believe a lot has to do with PR more than anything else.  When you're involved in something that is not on the up and up and you are on top then you must learn to accept the finger pointing that comes with it, it's just the way it is.  In your honest opinion do you think PAOK did everything in their power to bring in foreign officials because they wanted games to be 50-50 or because someone else controlled the Greek ones?

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Even assuming PAOK is butthurt about someone else controlling the refs, is the use of a neutral third party not an improvement? Personally, I think foreign refs being used is a net positive that should be used across UEFA. More of this, not less.

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Neutral?  I think not my friend, we are talking about the underworld here not upstanding citizens.  I haven't seen anything improve in the SL because of foreign officials.  The difference now is that you have 2 crime families, if you will, when before it was monopolized by one.

Edited by Mitsos
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The use of foreign refs is a major step in the right direction, but since the corruption runs so deep it's not enough to improve the state of football in Greece. Lot more needs to change and I don't see it happening.

Wonder who the 2nd crime family is that my good friend Mitsos is alluding to. :unsure:

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1 hour ago, Mitsos said:

  I have an issue with how we Hellenes put each other down and do everything in our power to discredit one another in many aspects of life without proof of anything

 

38 minutes ago, Mitsos said:

The difference now is that you have 2 crime families, if you will, when before it was monopolized by one.

You are a hypocrite then and part of the problem. Where is the proof of these 2 crime families controlling Greek football?

 

 

 

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Everyone makes good points guys, Mitsos is right about our game been run by the underworld but I think the foreign reffs have made a positive impact on the Greek game for the most part, excluding the recent OSFP-PAO game, in general I think it has been good and there have been far less crying over some calls.

This is a piece I recently wrote https://www.agonasport.com/agonasport-allnews/excuses-do-not-match-results I wrote it because I was so appalled and embarrassed AEK web sites reaction to our loss to PAOK. Watching the game, at times I thought the reff was bit harsh on us but did not decide the game, the game was decided because PAOK did alittle better than us, it was not a great game but you also create your own luck and whilst AEK started both halfs well, we didnt continue that intensity, and when PAOK went 1-0 we played a little better but didn't get the goal - that's football.

The unfortunate thing is Greek Football Culture, because we are in a country of football run by sugar daddies that underworld figures, this is what's become "normal" in greece. Lose a game - blame the officiating even when they did nothing wrong. Ok sometimes it's granted but whilst everyone goes down this path, this becomes normal in Greece. 

The way Olympiakos acts every time they draw or lose is ridiculous and they should start getting some type of warning for bringing the game into disrepute, it also makes you wonder what effect it has on officials who get people attacking them outside the field every time they are involved in games were Olympiakos drops points + what Marinakis and co come out and say, which is again, so ridiculous given what this club did to Greek football for over 20 years (1996-2017). 

Sadly, I can't see this changing.

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26 minutes ago, SydneyPAOK said:

 

You are a hypocrite then and part of the problem. Where is the proof of these 2 crime families controlling Greek football?

 

 

 

Guilty as charged but there is plenty of evidence in this league if one is willing to open his or her eyes.  I have no evidence for example that the idiot in charge of the team I support has taken sides but unfortunately too many things have happened for me to close my eyes and keep my mouth shut.  In life it is hard to avoid making contradictory statements but I'm sure if you read my posts, and there is no reason for you to do so, you will find that I have not deviated from my way of thinking going back many years.

 

28 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

 

Wonder who the 2nd crime family is that my good friend Mitsos is alluding to. :unsure:

Chris, I thought the two I'm referring to are obvious but maybe I am wrong.  In the north you have Don Ivan and in the south you have Don Vangeli.

Edited by Mitsos
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@Mitsos I think you are a logical person to be against foreign refs or VAR. I'm against foreign refs who aren't top class. If the League could afford first-tier referees, I would be very happy to never see a Greek referee again. I don't blame them for being scared after all the attacks that remain unresolved. But if you are scared or incompetent you should stay home.

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20 hours ago, Mitsos said:

Chris, I thought the two I'm referring to are obvious but maybe I am wrong.  In the north you have Don Ivan and in the south you have Don Vangeli.

That's like comparing apples to oranges. 

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Chris, you are correct in the grand scheme of things, a Greek ship owner tied to illegal activities is small potatoes compared to one of Russia's wealthiest men who served in Putin's parliament.  I apologize if my comments minimized Ivan's accomplishments!! ?

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They should win it because they are from Athens. We are poor people from Bulgaria who just deserve to finish 4th/5th/6th and lower. And we are happy enough for the "huge accomplishments" we had in 1920s/30s/40s and prove we are BIG teams!

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