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The Greek Economy Thread


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At this point the country has crossed that invisible line and they are at the point of no return.  Social unrest is next when the grocery stores have no food in them next week and the banks can't be opened for weeks at the earliest.  If it wasn't for the US, Europe would have dumped them.

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My point is that the original photo is trying to communicate how desperate and hopeless things are but it's one older man who's sitting down, probably emotional while everyone on the background is waiting in a queue.

I'm not questioning you posting it, but it was quoted and for what purpose? We all can see it and judge it for ourselves.

I'm not saying things aren't tragically bad but the media (both Greek and foreign) has been caught out since the referendum was announced. First it was Greek media outlets saying there was a bank run on by showing people queuing up at an ATM. The photo used was of people wearing winter clothes from Cyprus in 2013! They couldn't find an actual scenario in Greece to fit their narrative. The purpose was to start the panic as it hadn't started already. Another example was a photo posted on some papers front page of an older man crying holding loaves of bread. Clearly trying to convey the hopelessness of the current situation. The reality was that this picture was of a Turk after a recent earthquake outside of a crumbled building.

My real point is we are being lied to by sections of the media with their own self interests. I want to know the truth. I don't care about perceptions from biased media and crooked cynical politicians SYRIZA/ND/European leaders).

I fully believe that Tsipras and Varoufakis are also playing this game so I'm not defending them for a second.

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At this point the country has crossed that invisible line and they are at the point of no return. Social unrest is next when the grocery stores have no food in them next week and the banks can't be opened for weeks at the earliest. If it wasn't for the US, Europe would have dumped them.

I'm sorry, but you're an illinformed simpleton. There is no provision to dump anyone from the European Zone (single currency). Who's going to dump Greece again? Do you want to do your research this time and then answer it properly?

You don't seem to post on any oher topics in these forums. You take glee at your self-loathing anti-hellene smears.

I seriously hope you don't have a Greek name. I'd hate idiots asking you about the crisis in Canada thinking you have some unique knowledge.

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I'm sorry, but you're an illinformed simpleton. There is no provision to dump anyone from the European Zone (single currency). Who's going to dump Greece again? Do you want to do your research this time and then answer it properly?

You don't seem to post on any oher topics in these forums. You take glee at your self-loathing anti-hellene smears.

I seriously hope you don't have a Greek name. I'd hate idiots asking you about the crisis in Canada thinking you have some unique knowledge.

 

 

I don't personally attack members on this forum and would hope you adhere by the rules of this forum.

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Greece has been run into the ground by f***wit politicians who's sole mission was RE-ELECTION and NOT the betterment of the country as a whole.

Each idiotic party governed for its base and to protect its core of ''supporters''

35 years of it

Sad indeed

Fully agree with you and I've mentioned many times in posts how much contempt I have for our politicians. But given the choices we have of Syriza and ND, I could never bring myself to vote for Samaras. You know he is part of the old establishment and it would just be more of the same. So, I can understand why Syriza won the election.

If they fail, well, their stay in government will be short and that will be that. In the meantime, let's wait and see how the next couple of months play out. If Tsipras can't deliver and deliver very soon, he is in trouble.

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What worries me is that nearly 50% of the voters intend to vote "yes".

 

This one is a no-brainer, folks!

 

You are intending to accept the continuation of a program that was doomed to failure from the word "go".

You are intending to accept the sell-off of your country to foreigners.

You are intending to contradict the IMF which says Greece cannot continue on this present course.

You are intending to kowtow before the Scheubeles and Dijsebloems of the EU whose anti-Greek sentiments are well-known.

You are intending to sacrifice your long-term interests for the (very) short-term.

You are intending to sacrifice the future of your children.

You are intending to sell out your country.

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Jim Adams, are you blaming the current government for the mess Greece is in? They have been in power for less than 5 months....

I am blaming the current government for lying to the people and knowingly driving the country off the cliff. There is a left wing agenda to take the country to an authoritarian style of government, and they will not stop at anything. No human lives, or 'collateral' cost is going to stop them.  

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What worries me is that nearly 50% of the voters intend to vote "yes".

 

This one is a no-brainer, folks!

 

You are intending to accept the continuation of a program that was doomed to failure from the word "go".

You are intending to accept the sell-off of your country to foreigners.

You are intending to contradict the IMF which says Greece cannot continue on this present course.

You are intending to kowtow before the Scheubeles and Dijsebloems of the EU whose anti-Greek sentiments are well-known.

You are intending to sacrifice your long-term interests for the (very) short-term.

You are intending to sacrifice the future of your children.

You are intending to sell out your country.

 

I hope they vote no myself so then Greece goes to Bulgarian wages of $150 a month. Europe is too good for Greece.  Greece is a balkan country that belongs with Bulgaria, Romania, Albania etc...  Go back to the drachma and leave the civilized world alone.  They can trade Feta and Sheep with Bulgaria.

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This one is a no-brainer, folks!

 

How's the weather in Antrim, N. Ireland these days? Are you comfortable and far away enough not to inhale smoke from Greece going up in flames?

 

Whatever choice the Greek people make (because let's face it, me and you are not directly affected by all this) they'll have to live with it for the next 50-100 years. That's if Greece survives as a sovereign country.

Edited by JimAdams
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What worries me is that nearly 50% of the voters intend to vote "yes".

 

This one is a no-brainer, folks!

 

You are intending to accept the continuation of a program that was doomed to failure from the word "go".

You are intending to accept the sell-off of your country to foreigners.

You are intending to contradict the IMF which says Greece cannot continue on this present course.

You are intending to kowtow before the Scheubeles and Dijsebloems of the EU whose anti-Greek sentiments are well-known.

You are intending to sacrifice your long-term interests for the (very) short-term.

You are intending to sacrifice the future of your children.

You are intending to sell out your country.

 

I apologize if I'm being too harsh, but I see such statements are generic and not very meaningful other than cheap political slogans, much like Tsipras was saying yesterday addressing the crowd. Proud Hellenes, solidarity, national unity, against the bloodsucking conspirators, ..show the Europeans what Greece is made of, etc, etc.  What the hell is a prime minister in an extremely serious situation trying to do?  Excite the mob to storm the Bastille?

 

These remarks are OK in a "gipedo" where we shout slogans and being silly, but in serious politics they help perpetuate bad politics.

 

Do or do you not need Europe?

Do you or do you not need bailout money?

 

As to some of those slogans:

  • The country has already been sold, not literally, but very close to that, because when you are begging you've lost national independence
  • the future of "your children" was undermined by all Greek governments in the last 50 years, for perpetuating a corrupt state,  including higher education.
  • Yes, "show them" what Greeks are made of!.... I think the Europeans have views on this and the current Athens rhetoric doesn't change their opinion. Does anyone think it does?
  • Contradict the IMF.... while at it, contradict all those who are saying your economic policies since WW2 have led you to this disaster.

Look, I know you care, like all our friends here, and everyone supports Greece. We also all want Greece to cure its ills and do great. After all, I think all of us here have relatives or friends in Greece, but above all we understand the human toll in this horrible situation.

 

But, we disagree about the remedy. I'm not sure if we agree on the causes of this disease. This is utterly important becuase you have to diagnose the causes accurately before prescribing a remedy.

 

:la:

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That's if Greece survives as a sovereign country.

What "sovereign nation" are we talking about when everything is dictated from Brussels and Berlin and Angela Merkel wants us to change our constitution to say foreign lenders get preference over Greeks???

 

What "sovereign nation" are we talking about when are forced to go against our own interests concerning Russia?

 

What "sovereign nation" are we talking about when we are dumped 3rd World people from the North, simply because this is the first European country they sneaked into?

 

What "sovereign nation" are we talking about when we have to change our laws based on the judgement of northerners whose sense of morality and justice differs from ours?

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... I'm not sure if we agree on the causes of this disease. This is utterly important becuase you have to diagnose the causes accurately before prescribing a remedy.

Spending went out of control during the Andreas Papandreou government. Funds provided for investment were wasted on handouts. Assignments to the public sector were made without regard to cost - or necessity. Billions were lost in embezzlement scandals that were conveniently forgotten. Spending increased even more during election years.

 

After those years, it was difficult to get back to 1970s levels since interest had to be paid on those debts, public sector workers were not dismissed, etc. And future PMs did nothing to recover what was lost. We reached that point in the graph where the ascent gets steep.

 

In 2004, Greece entered the euro and was able to borrow at 0.5%. That made borrowing lucrative however, when the bankers eventually hiked the rate all the way to 7%, the country was unable to make even minimum payments.

 

Did I go to fast?

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What "sovereign nation" are we talking about when are forced to go against our own interests concerning Russia?

 

Holy f*cking s%$#!!  You're one of those guys ! How far back do you go? Bring back the Byzantine Empire?

 

 

What "sovereign nation" are we talking about when everything is dictated from Brussels and Berlin and Angela Merkel wants us to change our constitution to say foreign lenders get preference over Greeks???

 

Do you know anything of those regions called Macedonia, Aegean islands, Eastern Thrace? How about Epirus? Does that ring a bell? Do you think a failed state we be able to defend itself?

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Spending went out of control during the Andreas Papandreou government. Funds provided for investment were wasted on handouts. Assignments to the public sector were made without regard to cost - or necessity. Billions were lost in embezzlement scandals that were conveniently forgotten. Spending increased even more during election years.

 

After those years, it was difficult to get back to 1970s levels since interest had to be paid on those debts, public sector workers were not dismissed, etc. And future PMs did nothing to recover what was lost. We reached that point in the graph where the ascent gets steep.

 

In 2004, Greece entered the euro and was able to borrow at 0.5%. That made borrowing lucrative however, when the bankers eventually hiked the rate all the way to 7%, the country was unable to make even minimum payments.

 

Did I go to fast?

Nobody disagrees as to what happened my dear 'let's kiss Putin's ass' friend. We disagree on how to go forward and what makes sense. Cheap slogans are not logical arguments (as athinaios correctly has pointed out)

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I am blaming the current government for lying to the people and knowingly driving the country off the cliff. There is a left wing agenda to take the country to an authoritarian style of government, and they will not stop at anything. No human lives, or 'collateral' cost is going to stop them.  

 

The current proposals from the Troika were not sustainable so what alternative are you proposing all you are doing is criticising the current government for having a left wing agenda at least they are trying to do something different than what the previous governments have been doing and failing for the last 7 years 

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From my personal experience (any similarities to actual situations are purely coinsidental):

 

 

So, I borrow money to party, not work, buy favors, etc. Since I just joined a buddies club, they gave me free money to get up to the speed and train myself to be a decent club member. Of course, I'm smart, so I don't need that, and so I burned that money. Later, I asked for a loan. They happily gave me one at extremely low rate. I'm thinking, pfff, let me party on a bit longer and, you know, like a capable Greek who doesn't need to follow the regimen of other inferior people, I'll cram for the ..exam the night before.....

 

Then, the motherF***ers, said I was behaving inappropriately while a club member. I said I'm HELLENE.... when "we" were building a great civilization they're living in caves! How dare they insult me like that??!!!.

 

Then, the double-motherF***ers said if you want more loans the rate will be 7%!!!! What?!!!!!!!!!!  This is usery, highway robbery, it's like Hitler invading again! Unacceptable.

 

Now, the triple (troika) motheF***ers are saying no more money unless I agree that I'm a little child and must be told what to eat, when & how to work, exercise, and go to the bathroom. No more games they say!  I say F*** them!  Friends, let's all get together and tell them to go F*** themselves. We are proud, independent, even glorious! 

 

Life goes on, I don't need this club to have a great life. I'm sure there are other clubs I can join..... They'd love to have me, because we all behave the same~!

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POINT OF ORDER HERE:

 

Dear members, please refrain from personal attacks. We can agree to disagree. Free expression is desirable but it must be done with civility. If you don't like someone's views, skip their posts and don't respond. Thank you!

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