cyberfish Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Word in the media is that Panathinaikos is not going to sign any players unless we sell Mantzio, Cleyton, and Tzioli. Media is also planting into people's head that if we do buy anyone, it will be a LCB and maybe someone to replace Salpigidi if he does decide to move to a club abroad. But my assessment is a bit different and probably very unpopular with all the Vintra-Sariegi haters and the ones who envision a Panathinaikos lining up only with dribbling wingers :P I read this article this morning at Prasina Nea about Gilberto's appearances so far and I found myself thinking "I hope Antoniou and Ten Cate are planning ahead". "The 33-year old defender has played in 21 games in this time period" This is already a whole season's worth of appearances for most players! Gilberto played over the summer with the Brazilian NT in South Africa where he won the confederation cup, and according to my records he also played for Panathinaikos in 16 of the games, all completing the entire 90 minutes (He was subbed with PAOK in 86', and even played 9 minutes at Panthrakikos in the end, having just returned from Brazil the day before). Many might look at our bench and think that we are set at DM with Katsourani, Simao, and Mahleli, but in a long season it might not be enough. I would not be surprised to see us move for another DM in January! Many fans would be surprised at my assessment, but many disagreed with me last summer when I advocated that Katsouranis was a huge priority for our team. My thinking here is that Gilberto will run out of steam and will have a dip in form at some point in the near future, and as everyone became aware this season, Panathinaiko's midfield is not the same without Gilberto in the lineup. Simao is a monster defensively but he can't match the organizational skills of Gilberto out of defense, and that's one of the reasons Ten Cate plays Karagounis deep when Simao is in the lineup without Gilberto. It's very important for our team to transition from defense to offense with speed and above all, accuracy. Katsouranis can have these "out" days even when he doesn't forget himself forward during counter-attacks, and Mahlelis has yet to see a minute of play. I don't advocate that we will be in crisis mode if Gilberto misses a few games because I do have huge respect for both Simao and Katsourani, but I do think we might be in a more comfortable spot having a little more depth at DM. Three DMs for two spots seem a little tight to me, given that injuries are always in the cards in a long season. We saw a few glimpse of the problem against Panionios when Gilberto was injured, and Katsouranis had a bad game. The only option to put a ball-handling DM next to Simao was to rely on Gabriel. I do think a CB would be a nice to buy this January if a dominant left-footed one is attainable, but having watched our games I don't think we are in as bad a shape on defense as the media makes it sound. Personally I would opt for a solid, and experienced DM that we can rotate in the lineup when needed, and to give some rest to Gilberto and Katsouranis who do an incredible amount of running every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 For the superleague we have Kara, Kats, Gilberto and Simao that can all play DM... its europe that may be a problem if we go deep.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 ha ha you are regressing my friend. Have you ever watched how opponents go by Karagouni as if he is not even there? That's what I am talking about. Sure, we have Gabriel, and Kante, and I suspect Seitaridis, or even Ninis (who has played a few times deep), but that doesn't amount to much DM play. Did you watch how Panionios walked all over our midfield and despite having so much offensive talent on the pitch we spend more time trying to get the ball back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 megale.. u know i love u... but if the NT can play with kats and kara.... so can pao.. IN THE SUPERLEAGUE and for a few games... The Panionio game was one match where we played over confidently.. Im sure if it were 0-0 and we played that game over again.. it would be different.. U learn from ur mistakes.. and at least this year, it hasnt cost us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Have you ever watched how opponents go by Karagouni as if he is not even there? This is totally true and why Karagouni should never play in centre-mid unless as part of a trio. He has to play out wide, drifting in or just behind the front man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 I think Karagounis is at his best when he lukes ouside the opposing penalty area, behind the forward. He can score from afar and his dribbling face to face can carry him right into the box. He has scored some very nice goals and he creates havoc in the box. One of the problems I have with the way we play is that Karagounis seems to play too deep or too wide, and the same with Salpigidis. The two of them are very dangerous in and around the 18 yard box and I'd like to see them spending more time in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 i saw flamengo play gremio this weekend for the brasiliero championship and not only did david score the first goal but he played very very well...he looks talented. lets hope milan dont get him away from us..we should recall him. oh and by the way, they won the title this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenTitus Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Good point. David is by far HTC's and Antoniou's biggest mistake. Never gave him a real chance and loaned him out to bring Moon (!) in due to the 5 foreigners rule. Now, this is a totally unjustifiable decision if you ask me. Hope we bring him back asap. Modern CB with size, athleticism and outstanding skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 David seems like a good prospect, but I'd prefer an experienced CB (~28-29 y.o) who has played in Europe and preferably in Italy. The Melberg loss screwed us up big time. Even though PAE is talking about not making any transfers I'd be really surprised if they don't buy any players this January. The need at CB is too glaring to ignore and it could lead to the loss of the title and pottentially 20m euro from CL. The way things are the second team will have a heck of a time making the groups again. BTW, there have been rumors that we will sign Scoco from AEK. I would not mind that. He would be a good backup who could come in a game and make a difference. No rumors but I'd love to have Vierinia to backup Leto. Whenever Leto is out we have zero wingers that can remotely match his skill. Not sure Vierinia would want to be a backup though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 i hope we pick up paletta from boca..he is a solid central defender and could help us alot..the links are on practically every site.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Paletta would be great! He almost signed with Pallermo last summer but the deal was called off one day before his arrival to Italy. I think the Italians were concerned with his recent knee injury, but he was played just about every game for Boca since then and it sounds like he wants to come to Europe. Also I read again about PAO's interest in Durica, but in foreign media I read he is close to Celtic, and in another report the last few days I saw the name of Pellerano who's not getting much playing time. But this might have been just an article of who might be available. I did read a report somewhere (sorry I can't remember the source - I don't read gata and such media) that we might be going after Kyriakos since Liverpool needs money and we have a good relationship as shown with the Leto transfer. I would not be surprised and even though I think we need better, I don't see us finding anyone better than Kyriakos. It would be tricky though if he played for more than one team this season Olympiakos might win another title on paper :LOL: A Vintra/Kyriakos tandem would be pretty good. Not many names floating between these and the earlier of Jiranek so I am a little worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Palleta is not the answer for PAO. He would be just another Sarriegui. He flopped at Liverpool because his positional sense was non-existent. Defensively we struggle quite a bit on 2 fronts. When forwards have good movement usually on the counter. We struggle aerially too. Palleta wouldn't be the answer to either of those problems. Durica I haven't seen in a while but he always looked ok. Nothing more. Pellerano i've barely seen so can't comment but i'm always sceptical about south american defenders. I also heard about Kaladze and Materazzi but i doubt they'd perform. They're too old. we'd only have to replace them within a year anyway. Kyrgiakos would be a very good signing but we have to have back up options too. If reports are correct, Nioblias will use Vintra at right back once more against Dinamo. This would suggest they are his plans for him so i think it's unlikely we'll see a Kyrgiakos/Vintra tandem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kojak Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 If reports are correct, Nioblias will use Vintra at right back once more against Dinamo. This would suggest they are his plans for him so i think it's unlikely we'll see a Kyrgiakos/Vintra tandem.Doesnt necessarily mean that he prefers him at right back, it could merely indicate that he knows what vyntra is capable of (as we all do over the years), and wants to see bjarsmyr/kante in more of a starting role in there ideal positions to fully assess there capablities.Lets face it every signing pao can or will make is a risk, hell people doubted cisse. In saying that certain players may not have succeeded at a certain club ie Paletta @ liverpool but hat doesnt mean he wouldnt potentially be good signing for pao... Bergkamp failed at inter before his move to arsenal, vieira failed at AC milan before his move.... The only time i will be disappointed with transfers, is signing obscure foreigners from obscure clubs...but the again warzycha worked out.. Which brings me back to my original point, every signing whether known or unknown players, experienced or inexperienced... is a risk...you just have to live with it...as long as they have shown some sort of potential, form, and constistency in there position then they are worth the try... and yeah i like paletta...i say go for it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Reason vyntra is playin RB is that no one else is available or eligible.. Marino has 7 minutes since his injury and giourka is ineligible for Uefa til Feb. thats all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenTitus Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Paletta's current ability is more than enough for a club like PAO. In addition, he has the potential to become a world class defender. He has an EU passport and he's cheap. His knee seems to have healed too. You can't afford to miss such a huge opportunity. Kaladze is already a world class defender and he's not old - he's 31. And he's gonna be released from Milan. You sign them both for almost nothing and you 're done. Simple as that. Then you tell Josu and Kante that we love them but they 're not PAO calibre, sign their praises in public and let them go. Finally, you bring in another potentially world-class CB in and -look at that!- you don't have to pay a dime because you already own the very talented Mr. David Carvalho Filho Donasimento whatever. So, at the end of the season you're left with Paletta, David and Bjarsmyr who are all under 23, Vyntra who is a jack of all trades all coaches find a use for and the very experienced Kaladze. And hey presto defensive problem solved! But that would only happen in a club whose officials don't think in terms of who bought whom, who fought with whom, whose favourite player this or that guy is and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Reason vyntra is playin RB is that no one else is available or eligible.. Marino has 7 minutes since his injury and giourka is ineligible for Uefa til Feb. thats all Seitaridis didn't play against Iraklis either. Nioblias indicated in an interview yestderday that Seitaridis was dropped but worked hard in training and that the manager was impressed by thisGreentitus if Paletta was potentially world class Liverpool wouldn't have let him go at such a young age. His positional sense isn't just "not great", it's abysmal. And if Kaladze was world class then why would a team with defensive frailties release him? Kaladze is naturally a left back and any full back playing in central defence always struggles to make the adjustment. He would be a good signing for PAO but let's not get over excited here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kojak Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Greentitus if Paletta was potentially world class Liverpool wouldn't have let him go at such a young age. His positional sense isn't just "not great", it's abysmal. now could be true about his positional sense...and yeah i dont see why liverpool would get rid of a 21 year old with potential...butwhy would liverpool sell him and have a buy back clause, if they had zero faith in him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 He played vyntra because he would use him vs Dinamo and Giourka is coming back off an injury... He will be our RB in the next month.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 now could be true about his positional sense...and yeah i dont see why liverpool would get rid of a 21 year old with potential...but why would liverpool sell him and have a buy back clause, if they had zero faith in him? There's nothing to lose by having a buy-out clause. It's not an indicator of his ability, but if he does become why not buy him back? Liverpool had had big defensive problems this year and that's why they're already out of the title race. If Paletta was anyone near decent they'd have activated the buy out clause. Instead Benitez bought Kyrgiakos, which would suggest Paletta isn't as good an option as Kyrgiakos. Having seen a lot of both of them i think that they are incomparable, Kyrgiakos is much better. Generally speaking south americans don't produce good defenders. Why are we always looking to that region for defenders? It would be like trying to find a goalkeeper in Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenTitus Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Instead Benitez bought Kyrgiakos, which would suggest Paletta isn't as good an option as Kyrgiakos. Having seen a lot of both of them i think that they are incomparable, Kyrgiakos is much better. Sorry man but this kind of 'logic' simply beats me. And it beats me even more when you call upon Benitez's transfer policy to make a 'Liverpool knows best' argument: the man has ruined the club with his signings. Whatever, bring Kurgiakos in so that all the Kurgiakos lovers can see the best CB in the world play for their favourite club. I 'm all for surrealism but only in the theatre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYPAO13 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 sell Gilberto..now that he has some value, i think we've seen enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted December 27, 2009 Author Share Posted December 27, 2009 http://www.caughtoffside.com/2009/12/27/li...d-flop-voronin/ Panathinaikos interested in Voronin. Not sure how urgent such transfer would be unless we are looking for a Salpi alternative already. I would not be upset if he came, especially now that his value has dropped so much. It's funny to see in the comments how much Liverpool fans hate him thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 he did well in germany but never really excelled at liverpool..i think he would be a good signing for us though..he would do well in greece...salpi prob will not be with the team come the summer so he may be a good replacement..we may be able to do one better though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Voronin is a good player but were much better off with Salpiggidis. We know the guy gives it everything and ultimately produces, why trade that away for a fancified reject. BTW, what is this whole talk about Salpi anywyas? Where is he going? (Allegeldy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Voronin is a good player but were much better off with Salpiggidis. We know the guy gives it everything and ultimately produces, why trade that away for a fancified reject. BTW, what is this whole talk about Salpi anywyas? Where is he going? (Allegeldy) He may be going back to PAOK, but its a rumor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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