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Greece - Croatia ( Round 2, 2nd Leg - 12 Nov. 2017, Giorgos Karaiskaki, Piraeus)

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Knowing this goofy coach, we'll go up 1-0 and he'll seal it up and protect the 1 goal lead even though we need 3.

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12 minutes ago, gsots said:

This coach is a f#*king goof, I've been saying it for a few months now. That line up we started against cro didn't surprise me at all, cause we knew he was gonna play chicken s#!t soccer against them. 

But his subs when we were down 3-1 just floored me. "maniatis off, Retsos on" why? To defend the lead we don't have? Might as well have put Zeca at rb and put Laz or Gianniotas on. Then Samaris goes down, and instead of putting Zeca THERE... Nope bring on another defender. And bakasetas?? Might as well bring on vryzas or kapetanos. 

That line up nullified our wing play completely, we had nothing down the right side, and barely anything on the left cause he had stafylidis doing double duty. There wasn't a single momentum shift all game. Croatia never had to worry and really track back, cause we would take the ball from themand hand it right back. Mitroglou and Fortounis were literally left out to dry, with no one to support them and make runs and help create space... You know, logical normal things that happen during a soccer match in order to create chances. 

Honestly it's almost better we don't make the world cup, cause can you imagine seeing theses bone headed line ups on the world stage?? I'd lose my f&#king mind! 

Exactly!!!  The fact the we were down 4-1 and he didn't change his style is mind blowing...The minute I saw that line up I was literally speechless...

Edited by J1078

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sometimes coaches make decisions that work out yet they were not the proper, highest percentage choice...likewise coaches make the proper decision but it does not work out....in both cases, you can see the thought process behind the decision at which point you can debate it....

but this guy ----- what POSSIBLE "strofi tou mialou" did his brain take to make the substitutions he made? I cant find ANY ANY rational or logical explanation....like u guys have said.....

based on the information he had after the first half, and going into the first several minutes of the second half --- all real time factual data --- what was the thought process behind those choices.??????? 

i would be very curious to hear him explain all that.. all i can think of is maybe at 3-1 he figured if it ends 3-1 he can maybe snatch a 2-0 win at home....? ok i can bbbbbbbarely see that though i dont agree, ican see that. but at 4-1?  

i just dont get it. again, we may not agree with the logic behind any decision, but at least that logic has a basis in the coaches reality, right? but i would love to know what exactly his assessment and evaluation was of the game and what he hoped to accomplish with those substitutions....

are we all missing something? 

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1 hour ago, gsots said:

Knowing this goofy coach, we'll go up 1-0 and he'll seal it up and protect the 1 goal lead even though we need 3.

Like Santos subbed off Ninis for Patsazoglou when we were trailing to S.Korea in the world cup.

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In one sentence:
When Skibbe almost won Belgium with 10 men praised. Same Lineup like yesterday apart from Zeka.

When he could have won (apperanacewise) Bosnia away he was praised

When he lost to Croatia he is useless.

Reality and not personal opinion : Skibbe is a tactician. His tactics worked throughout the whole campaign. Last week it didn't. 

When it goes to the players : Tzavellas vs Bosnia wow golara [email protected]@ka soutara tzavellara psychara!!!

Tzavellas yesterday : OUT OF THE ETHNIKI!!!

Stafylidis the same. He made excellent performances vs Begium Bosnia and Estonia away and was praised for it and he is suddenly a kagkoura ethniki mykonou.

 

I agree with u on some call ups though*, as I said though, many of the players will wave us goodbye afther tomorrow. I insist on Skibbe staying. After a couple of friendlies he might pick the right players for the next campaign which will be much easier (if we end up 3rd we ll be playing play offs with teams like Bosnia at worst),

*Those are Bakasetas , Vellios , Diamantakos , Maniatis , Tziolis ONLY. And I still believe Tziolis needs to be in the squad but not be fielded.

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Watching today's game and realizing that the whole soccer world except greece was right when they all said everyone wants Greece in the draw. All the other games have been so close and all teams still have a chance. Today's game going into half time 0-0.  FML Greece really stinks. Can't believe we lost 4-1. We are the only ones without a chance lol

 

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So as it stands right now Sweden/Italy 1-0

NI/Sws 0-1 and the game today with Den/Irl will end up 0-0 or someone winning 1-0. How a team allows 4 goals in and gets destroyed and doesn't even give themselves a chance is killing me right now I just don't get it.. Skank in all fairness everybody wanted Tziolis gone from day 1 as far as tzavellas there is not one person on earth that would pick him over Holebas which Skibbe did regularly. I mean Holebas is playing regularly and has been inform and we could have really used his speed and crosses.. Even when we were getting results the complaints have not stopped on his selections and subs that he would choose not to mention his call ups. I mean we're unable to score as a team and he kept one of the hottest scorers we had off the pitch except for the Gibraltar game.. We were down 4-1 and desperately need a goal to give ourselves a slim shot and what subs did he make to help us achieve that? 

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On 10/11/2017 at 1:52 PM, Argy said:

Fortounis sucks man he was so bad and even at his best with the NT he is just OK. 

tough to say there was such a disconnect between him and Mitro SKIBBE tactics were wrong..he hit some quality corners which could have got us 2 goals..we move onand hope he perfoms at home..his move back to Greece has stunted his development

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2 hours ago, Argy said:

Like Santos subbed off Ninis for Patsazoglou when we were trailing to S.Korea in the world cup.

Lol omg! It was actually patza in for karagounis lol I actually called it too. I told my buddy "watch, he's gonna bring in patza to defend the lead we don't have" Otto had lost his mind by the world cup I think lol he actually started vyntra and avraam at cb instead of moras and kyriakos cause he was pissed kyriakos didn't wanna play sweeper. Then karagounis apparently snapped at Otto during halftime, so he subbed him off too 

  • Haha 1

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 lets see who he puts out there, and what tactics are used. 

im excited to see how everything actually unfolds. 

croatia can be rattled, croatia can lay a big egg....at this level a few mistakes are fatal. if we apply enough pressure we can grab a few goals without a shadow of any doubt. 

what will be interesting is what croatia does...do they park the bus or do they attack?  hmmmmmmm.

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Can you imagine we come out of the first half up 2-0... That would be nuts.. A guy can dream..

Edited by J1078

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j, it can happen very easily. 

now, WILL it happen - .........

i think many  people on this thread and all over r gonna be in for a big surprise....

we always make thing difficult.....

 

we got them just where we want them, we just needed a little motivation....thats all ....lol

Edited by bbaw

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40 minutes ago, bbaw said:

 lets see who he puts out there, and what tactics are used. 

im excited to see how everything actually unfolds. 

croatia can be rattled, croatia can lay a big egg....at this level a few mistakes are fatal. if we apply enough pressure we can grab a few goals without a shadow of any doubt. 

what will be interesting is what croatia does...do they park the bus or do they attack?  hmmmmmmm.

a few mistakes are fatal and all 3 of the possible ones at such a level / situation / prize happened in the previous match. They were all our mistakes.

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Tactician??? I wouldn't trust this guy to pick his nose at this point lol 

Throwing a bunch of defensive minded guys on the field isn't tactical. It would be like saying Otto was tactical when he tossed on 8 defensive players against Argentina.

Ill toss out some things and you guys tell me if these seem like the ideas of a coach with great sense and tactics. 

Maniatis: doesn't play for his club much. Isn't in game form. Has played almost exclusively as cdm because his crossing and dribbling aren't very good, but he works hard. But Skibbe thinks its a good idea to toss him at rb to protect the flank... 

Tsiolis: plays in SA cause he stinks and no one wants him (not like Fetfa who went cause they pay him a s#!t ton). Doesn't play consistently, so isn't in form.  Can't make that critical pass. Plays in 1 of the most critical positions for us for possession and distribution yet fails miserably consistently at both. 

Tzavellas: plays as a cb for a mid table team. Consistently stifles our left side on offense by offering little support on the attack, always looks to pass back when he has room going forward. Stinks defensively as well.  Aside from that goal against Bosnia (embarrassing that we were even losing to them) has shown me nothing that he has cemented that position. 

Stafylidis: I don't mind him, but he's not playing for his club right now, so to ask him to play LW and track back and forth to cover numbnuts Tzavellas is insane. He's obviously not in game shape, so of course he's gonna look like s%$#! and make mental errors doing that much running. And let's not forget this same stupid coach played staf as a cm lol 

Samaris: again, I like him, but he's not playing much either, so to start him at cdm in this game was always going to be tough. 

That game against Belgium away, anyone could see that Tachtsidis was gonna eat a 2nd yellow, especially once we were up and you knew we'd have to really tighten up. He should have been subbed off... But nope, too logical, I guess God's gift to our nt bakashitas wasn't wormed up yet lol

 

K let's look at the beginning of the 2nd half. It definitely made sense to remove maniatis, but if Retsos was the replacement, then he should have just started cause that was a f-ing colossal waste of a sub. But ok, maybe he's thinking we hold them, maybe get a lucky corner and pull one back. But then we go down 4-1 and he's picking butterflies on the bench for what seemed like another 15-20 mins before he was forced into a sub cause Samaris went down. And instead of bringing on a winger to inject some speed down the side, on comes Tachtsidis to continue with the failed formation and tactics. 

We don't just sit and whine about him when we lose and praise him when we win. We praised him early in the campaign cause he seemed very competent. But he doesn't seem competent now and hasn't for a while. 

Maniatis off, Zeca to rb and laz on to rm should have been the first move to start 2nd half. See how that went for a few mins, then make the next sub accordingly. Samaris off for pelkas could have been next and play an upside down triangle 1cdm Tsiolis and 2 am pelkas and Fortounis behind Mitro. And then depending on the situation when staf needs to come off, either Retsos on (Retsos to rb and Zeca to lm or laz to lm and Zeca to rm) or Gianniotas on. 

Edited by gsots

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gsots ----- great points. where u reading my posts ?   lol..

cant say i disagree with anything 

 

but ----------- enough of revisionist history

what will happen tommorrow? 

what will he do? who will he put on? what will he play formation and tactic wise....what will croatia do? 

lets get some commitments/predictions  here.  we have analyzed game one to death.

 

in his ONLY defense and only for the starting squad:  1. manolas/donis/tro/mantalos killed us;  2. very very hard to patchwork a lineup with his call ups (his fault) and the holes he needed to fill 

Edited by bbaw

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tommorow's result will mark a turning point for some of the players. If we can do the unthinkable, great, but if not some of the older guys will slowly retire from the NT.  It gives a chance for the younger players to build for the "nations league", gives them a chance to actually play for something. 

there is some talent in Greek football, but the NT is too stuborn to develop them. 

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ειναι ευκολο να κρίνουμε λάθη εκ του αποτελέσματος φίλε @gsots . Το οτι ο Ταχτσίδης θα έπερνε κόκκινη το είδαμε όλοι. Το κράξαμε όλοι αλλά δεν ήταν κάτι που μπορείς να πείς "α λαθος του προπονητη τον μ@λ@κ@ τον κράτησε στο γήπεδο". Την π@π@ρ[email protected] του καρνέζη τι να πεις στον Σκίμπε? Ο καρνέζης δεν έκατσε βασικός στα 9 ματς? Είναι και λίγο αξιοκρατικό να κάτσει πάλι αυτός. Σε φόρμα ο ανέστης αλλά δεν παίζει σε ομάδα που έχει το Back-pass καραμελίτσα. Ο Καρνέζης σε πόσα μάτς το έχει ζήσει? Να πιέζουνε οι αντίπαλοι και απλά να βλέπουμε Κεντρο/Αμυνα να του δινει συνεχεια πάσες πίσω.
Ο μανιάτης δεξι μπάκ είναι το μόνο σοβαρό λάθος που δίνω στον Σκίμπε για το βράδυ της πέμπτης και εν τέλη έκρινε το αποτέλεσμα. Ας έβαζε τον Λυκογιάννη με αντίθετο πόδι ποσο χειρότερος θα ήταν? Έχει το ύψος να κοντράρει τον περισιτς στον αέρα και την φρεσκάδα και την δίψα για αναγνώριση να τον κυνηγάει.

Τα υπόλοιπα δεν μου λένε τίποτα για τον Σκίμπε. Τον τζιόλη κανένας προπονητής δεν τον προτίμησε πιστεύω. Αλλά σε αυτό το θέμα μάλλον τα χέρια του ήταν δεμένα.

Το ότι απο 3 "τελικούς" προπονητές δέχτηκε μόνο ο Σκίμπε να έρθει και οι αλλοι 2 όχι , επειδή ήθελαν δικό τους προπονητικό τίμ ενώ η ΕΠΟ επέβαλλε τον Τσάνα εμένα κάτι μου λέει ότι αυτές οι γελείες κλήσεις και χρησεις, που ητανε και κλήσεις Σαντος, και κλήσεις Ρανιέρι και κλήσεις Μαρκαριαν δεν γίνεται να γυάλισε σε όλους ο Τζιόλης.

Εαν έχουν μερικοί παίκτες αξιοπρέπεια πρέπει αυριο ανεξαρτήτου αποτελέσματος, γιατι να προκριθούμε δεν υπάρχει περίπτωση -το θέμα είναι η εμφάνιση και ίσως ενα αποτελεσμα ψυχολογιας- θα πρέπει λοιπον αυριο να ανακοινώσουν την απόσυρση τους από την εθνική. Προσωπική μου άποψη είναι Τζιολης-Μανιάτης. Ο τζαβέλλας έχει κάνει και καλά μάτς. Μην κρίνουμε μόνο απο το τελευταίο.

Δυστηχώς όμως εκτος απο αυτους σε ηλικία έχει φτάσει και ο Τοροσίδης προς αποχώρηση. Το σύγχρονο ποδόσφαιρο είναι πλεον ξεκάθαρα θέμα γρήγορων παικτών στα άκρα και ο Τοροσίδης ναι μεν καλύτερος απο οτι αλλο εχουμε αλλα έχει περάσει η εποχή του.

Τωρα οσο για τους μικροτερους σχετικα σε ηλικια Διαμαντακος Βελλιος Οικονομου που δεν εχουνε δωσει καποια ιδιαιτερη βοηθεια νομίζω και εκεί θα πρέπει έστω στα φιλικά που νομιζω ειναι το Nations League Που είπατε, να κληθούν κάποιοι αλλοι ανερχόμενοι παίκτες έστω να μεινει μια εντύπωση στους προπονητές.

Εαν ο Σκιμπε φύγει πιστεύω θα δουμε Παλι Χολεμπα για κανα χρονο ακομα και Σιοβα στην Εθνικη.

Edited by Rockafeller Skank

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RS, i'm tired of the "we played well but lost" mentality....YOU DID NOT PLAY WELL, YOU LOST ....

U KEEP SAYING NO CHANCE TO GO THROUGH...thats easy to say....but the fact is there is a chance, though its a big thing to ask THIS team to do, there is achance...why play the game then?

if you fancy yourself to be a good team, shut up, put on your big boy shorts, and go win that game 3-0, 4-1, 5-2 or whatever it takes to get it done.

good teams WIN --- they dont "play well but lose".

as i said, I predict (because I dont see anyone here making predictions - and u saying we wont make it is not a prediction its the safe thing to say) i predict tommorows game will have alot of surprises. 

as i said before, if betting sports was that easy we would all be millionaires. 

so long as skibbe does the right thing, and the team plays  their "A" game. you dont think a quick goal wont rattle them? then we have some momentum and grab another? its 2-0 with 45 to play...you dont think thats possible? then what? 45 minutes to score another goal? 

if u think this is impossible then you are seriously mistaken......

based on last game it SEEMS unlikely, but remember we HANDED them three gifts....3.....even with that crap lineup we could have kept is much closer without those three gifts....three mistakes that unfortunately all happened in one game. 

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24 minutes ago, MelbourneGreek said:

tommorow's result will mark a turning point for some of the players. If we can do the unthinkable, great, but if not some of the older guys will slowly retire from the NT.  It gives a chance for the younger players to build for the "nations league", gives them a chance to actually play for something. 

there is some talent in Greek football, but the NT is too stuborn to develop them. 

Totally agree, I'm nervously waiting to see the line up he fields tomorrow lol

@Rockafeller Skank sorry, I can't read Greek to save my life lol I'm gonna get one of my buddies to read it for me.

But honestly, we have to look forward. It's been frustrating, hopefully better days are on the horizon. 

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9 minutes ago, gsots said:

Totally agree, I'm nervously waiting to see the line up he fields tomorrow lol

@Rockafeller Skank sorry, I can't read Greek to save my life lol I'm gonna get one of my buddies to read it for me.

But honestly, we have to look forward. It's been frustrating, hopefully better days are on the horizon. 

My bad bro but its 2am and i can't translate it right now. Hope u will be able to read it with ur friends soon.

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27 minutes ago, bbaw said:

RS, i'm tired of the "we played well but lost" mentality....YOU DID NOT PLAY WELL, YOU LOST ....

U KEEP SAYING NO CHANCE TO GO THROUGH...thats easy to say....but the fact is there is a chance, though its a big thing to ask THIS team to do, there is achance...why play the game then?

if you fancy yourself to be a good team, shut up, put on your big boy shorts, and go win that game 3-0, 4-1, 5-2 or whatever it takes to get it done.

good teams WIN --- they dont "play well but lose".

as i said, I predict (because I dont see anyone here making predictions - and u saying we wont make it is not a prediction its the safe thing to say) i predict tommorows game will have alot of surprises. 

as i said before, if betting sports was that easy we would all be millionaires. 

so long as skibbe does the right thing, and the team plays  their "A" game. you dont think a quick goal wont rattle them? then we have some momentum and grab another? its 2-0 with 45 to play...you dont think thats possible? then what? 45 minutes to score another goal? 

if u think this is impossible then you are seriously mistaken......

based on last game it SEEMS unlikely, but remember we HANDED them three gifts....3.....even with that crap lineup we could have kept is much closer without those three gifts....three mistakes that unfortunately all happened in one game. 

Look buddy. If you wanna be held tight for something that has minimum chances to happen do me a favor.

I have came back to reality and as people are saying we weren't ready for the world cup right now.

Let me believe whatever I want as far as I let you believe what you want. A forum is a place where we share opinions. I do not agree with your opinion to have faith at something so ludicrous. It's gonna feel twice as bad tomorrow for you after the final blow.

As I have stated, I will only start believing only if we are 2-0 up before 80. Until that happens (or it never does) I am just hoping for a good performance against a solid European top team.

Also I didn't say anywhere we played well and we lost. We played terribly. But playing the next match well and not qualifying is gonna be a psychological boost for the players that stay.

Also, take this as an advice. Do not be so psychotically attached to the National Team. Cheer them support them love them like we all do here but don't act like that because I ve done it quite a few times younger (euro 2016) and I know what's it like your mood whenever u see a ball to be based on the NT. We ve all be young to be honest.

Proof that I care btw despite what I post here: This is a status of mine on facebook in the morning:

https://imgur.com/a/THwMh\

I do care man and Id love to see us through I just took the realistic path to be psychologically ok after the inevitable.

Edited by Rockafeller Skank

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^gsots. Open Google translator and get it translated.

I hope they sit back and play on the counter. We need changes, need run in the midfield and the flanks. Pin them back and get 2, 3 and 4 in the box. To score 3-0 we need to open up the play.  

 

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Hopefully Skibbe opens it up we are down 4-1 and we need to attack them from the get go. So he better implement the right personnel (hopefully) Croatia will sit back and try and eat time of the clock. A quick goal and there nerves will start to rattle. Then things will get interesting and we will have our crowd fired up.

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ella RS, u make some valid comments but u miss my point entirely. 

dont say "its impossible" because it isn't impossible. it's UNLIKELY that we go through given this coach and the players we are missing etc etc etc. BUt its not impossible.

ANd, its not gonna hurt -- at all. I am an objective soccer fan who know a thing or two about soccer and team sports in general,  and although i bleed blue and white (see the connection ? BBAW) I am not unrealistic nor am I blindly believing without some sort of rationale. I follow the NT for decades. I know our limitations here, and the big mountain we have to climb. 

who expected faroe to beat us? the unlikely events do happen. and tomorrow, just a few things have to break our way and its on...

if u think its imposible go bet 100,000 euros on the game. if i thought something was impossible thats what I would do. 

we have pride, w r infront of the home crowd, and the greek "pisma" and "kserokefalia uperifania" cannot be measured. our guys were embarrassed and now their backs are against the wall. we are not faroe islands (thorugh we looked like them game 1) 

i expect a good showing ---like u say if we fall short and play well, it will be a mental boost ---agree.....

97 times out of 100 we dont qualify tomorrow. but its not impossible. that was my only point. 

 

have SOME faith...its huge game and can be one of the greatest moments in NT history, dont you think? 

if they dont make it, they dont make it. I turn of the TV, go to the gym, have dinner with my family and go to work Monday...

but lets try and enjoy tomorrow and hope for the best..

Edited by bbaw

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