GREECE - Nigeria

[Genome]

Maybe they didn't want to win from SK because they only want revenge for '94 ... so only to win from Nigeria and Argentina :P ...

[drakos13]

I have to say, Papadopoulos yesterday did play quite well too.

[warzycha]

This is what Greece can do. In the Korea match there was like no midfield which placed huge pressure of the defence. However we must savour the result being firstly to score goals in WC and then to win...fantastic.

What a huge difference the likes of Kirgiakos and Papastathopoulos made in defence. I also thought Salpingidis was the pick of the forwards and Tziolis played a much more commanding role in the centre. If I was to tweak anything is to have Samaras be more central with Gekas just playing slightly wider. Also they had some good shots from outside the area which is very encouraging.

Unlike previous World Cups this one is building momentum nicely. It has started slow with goals being hard but the last 4 games has seen 13 goals.

For Greece they need Nigeria to beat Korea say 1-0 and it is not impossible to beat Argentina.

I am always optimistic as Greece tend to play well against more fancied teams but if they do not qualify then they will kick themselves with how they played against Korea.

[Guest geok]

oi klassikoi oi m*lakes oi Ellhnes. Eixan tis eukairies na baloun kai alla goal kai na mpoun deyteroi ston omilo alla tis peta3ane.

as kopasoun oi panygirismoi h nikh den mou arkei apenanti se 10, eprepe perissotera goal.

Teleutaio paixnidi me argentinh kai pisw sthn Ellada. Mono me kalytero skor apo auto toy N. Korea - Nigeria h ellada prokrinetai, dhladh me tipote.

Panygirizoun oi m*lakes oi Ellhnes twra!  :LOL:

malista 8a elega oti prokeitai gia epityxhmenh poreia ths e8nikhs sto mountial  :LOL:  :LOL:  :LOL:  :LOL:  :LOL: 

a re koroida.....

a, kai na mhn 3exniomaste, megalos proponhtaras o Otto den xreiazomaste allon, menei mexri ta 100 tou xronia  :LOL:  :LOL:  :LOL:  :LOL:  :LOL:

Na balei spyropoylo sth swsth 8esh toy kai na anebasei ton torosidi sta haf. Na pai3ei me grhgores antepi8eseis, Salpi-Gekas kai me treis sthn Amyna.

Liges elpides prokrishs. Gia na katalabete ti ellipsi organwshs ths e8nikhs kaneis den katalabe apo ton pago na toys pei na piesoyn gia trito goal, pio polla 3eroume emeis apo ton Otto telika....

Krima na xasoume thn prokrish apo tis m*lakies toy Otto kai paixtwn me thn Korea....

[drakos13]

drak, i said that above.....most goals do happen from broken plays, opportunistic chances and the like.......i agree...

my only point is this: dont get excitied over beating a 10 man side...greece would have had so much more to lose if they did not win, than what they stand to gain if they did win...

when your opponent is a man down, you need to win...period......

are our expectations so low that we are estatic when we beat a side that was a man down?

I dont agree, at all.

What happened was that with 10 men, Greece got the mental boost, and gave Rehagel the forsight to actually throw men forward --- AND KEEP THEM THERE.

I mean think about it....is a one man difference really accounting for the difference between a Greece with 0 chances on goal and a Greece thats making dozens of them? No, its really not. Nigeria wasnt strong defensively, its not like they didnt have men back.

10 men means you'll dominate possesion, because you will have the extra man in the back as a safety net. When teams are with 10 they play more compact and behind the ball normally, meaning they could have had Greece passing and doing long balls all day long trying to break it.

BUT --- Rehagel made the move to actually attack, and the team started moving, passing on the ground and MAKING RUNS. Its not like Even Avraam and Kyrgiakos were up in the area for 70 mins and there were simply too many Greeks.

Numbers advantage is definitley an advantage, but its really been exagerated. The determining factor was the card, but only because it put optimism in the Greek team and Rehagel to start attacking, making movements in the area, passing on the ground and keep men forward.

Even with 10 minutes to go at 2-1, Greek players were STILL staying forward. First time I've ever seen this with Rehagel.

1 man is one less striker up top. If you play a 4-4-1, is your defense really going to be worse than a 4-4-2? Nigeria had 10 men behind the ball. That is not exactly easy for a team thats been ridiculed for not playing any offense to make chances.

Credit really is due to Greece, and instead of some Greeks celebrating, I see the world just getting angry and trying to pin the entire match on one card.

Also, can somebody try and be more objective.........Nigeria were winning 1-0 because of a TOTAL GIFT. WHY IS NOBODY ELSE REMEMBERING THIS??!?! I don't remember Nigeria exactly making chances or being particularly special when they had 11 men.

I've seen plenty of occasions where a team goes down 10 men and still controls the game, even excels. Look at Serbia vs Ghana......Serbia after going down to 10 even became the better team on the field yet. The only reason they lost was a fluke PK that could have just as easily have happened with 11 men, and they were still going forward. I remember a game against Portugal where Greece went down 10 men at the 20th min or so and ended up taking the lead and getting a 1-1 draw in 2003. It wasnt a 'soft' friendly either.

It is not hockey, lacrosse where when theres a less man the whole system is screwed up and not everbody can be marked, because 25% of your team is missing. 10 men still is a disadvantage, but still lets not exagerate that oh 10 men now its an easy job.

Nigeria played quite poorly - 10 men or not. Lagerback did a horrid job, and the defense was inadequate. Greece has 2 CB's hanging back, so when the posession is in the area its not like theres a free man everywhere. Often when you see teams go down to 10 they become even harder to break.

Everybody, mostly haters of Greece just accredit the whole performance to the red card. The kickstart, the momentum did help us, of course. But Greece were making tons of chances and playing attacking football regardless. The response of Greece was excellent, they were given nothing, and they did really show what kind of offense they are capable of when they actually get to play it, rather than shying back which Rehagel sets them to.

[drakos13]

if you want even more proof that 10 v 11 is not 'easy', impossible to screw up.....

Germany with 10, creating chances and dominating and putting a ton of pressure, with one less man.

Greece had TWENTY SEVEN attempts at goal yesterday......dont be ridiculous and try to claim its all "from the card" and the one man advantage, while they had 10 men behind the ball anyways.

[gcp]

The mighty germans fall, BRAVO stous Servous!! And how? with dogged determination. Kai pali bravo tous.

[mangas21]

well drak, i agreed with your previous comment. but here i really am not sure what you dont agree with...there are however, as always, a few thought provoking comments that i would like address.

First lets get the disagreement out of the way - when your team is up a man you should win. period. i know it not a guarantee. Amd I never said it would be easy. But for me i expect the team to win when they are one man up...if we are to believe our team is good, then a one man advantage should translate into a win. You cant have it both ways: meaning, you cant get over exctied about yesterdays game while at the same time lament the loss to korea. You cant think "wow, we are a good team we should have beat Korea" and then get a hardon over the Nigerai win. If Luxembourg or Sam Marino beat a ten man Nigeria then maybe that would be a huge accomplishment. But Greece? sorry..if we are to be considered a good or above type team, we cant get overly enthusiastic about beating a 10 man squad. 10 man brazil? 10 man argentina? maybe that would be a bit more impressive, but a ten man Nigeria, which, by your own admssion was not playing well 11-11, ? By saying "Nigeria was playing poorly even strength, and their goal was a"gift" (like Korea) , what your implying is Greece was very much still in the game. So, if thats true, why would beating a ten man Nigeria rise be such a huge accomplishment? Good win? absolutely...nothing is easy at this level. Am I celebrating? no. a win is a win. some more impressive than others. i expected them to win up a man. if they beat argentina, i will be impressed becuase i dont expect them to win. for nigeria, i thought we had a great chance to win going in, and even more so up one man....

as far your other comments i am confused:

first you say: What happened was that with 10 men, Greece got the mental boost, and gave Rehagel the forsight to actually throw men forward --- AND KEEP THEM THERE."

then you say: I mean think about it....is a one man difference really accounting for the difference between a Greece with 0 chances on goal and a Greece thats making dozens of them? No, its really not. Nigeria wasnt strong defensively, its not like they didnt have men back. "

so - with no mental boost from teh red card, then what? you said it....no chances before the card, 27 after.

we plitting hairs - greece deserves some credit. i am just not as impressed as you are with the win. we are not san marino. u think italian fans would be so impressed with a win over a 10 man nigeria?

our team had MUCH more to loose in terms of reputation if they lost - than what they gained by winning that game...thats just not my opinion, but most of the world.

if u think we are san marino, i understand why you would have a hard on over the win...i dont think we are san mrino. i think we can beat nigeria 7 out of ten times at even strengthlayin the way we played AFTER the red card. and with a man advantage even more so.

[mangas21]

and by the way both of your examples: the teams with 10 men LOST........

[plato-ny]

The media talks about how 10-man Nigeria couldnt do anything because they were down a man. Even more ridiculous is that they report that Nigeria controlled the match before the red card even though they did nothing and scored a ridiculous goal.

Anyway, my point is that Germany fought against Serbia with 10 players and created chances and had a penalty blocked. Granted, Germany is a more talented team than Nigeria. But, playing against a 10-man team isnt as easy as everybody thinks. There have been countless cases of teams winning with 10 players.

Nigeria was never aggressive against Greece, even before the red card, and Serbia werent as aggressive as they should have been against 10-man Germany, which is a better team than a full Serbia squad.

Seeing how Switzerland beat Spain and Serbia beat Germany, Greece has to believe they can get a positive result against Argentina.

[CalGreek]

I am watching Slovenia v. USA, and to all the Greeks that use the "Greece is a small country" to excuse Greece's bad play need to watch Slovenia play. Organised, positive, patient, smart, unafraid and play to win. If Greece's players had a better attitude, and players who had a bit more confidence they would win some respect and probably some more games.

Anyway, Argentina will be dangerous because they need a point to go guarantee they progress and even if they play some "2nd string" players, they will want to impress their coach and the world, so that they can move up to "first string" for their NT. Lets face it these "2nd string" players are starters on their club teams.

Also, Argentina has plenty of mid-field. Mascherano and Veron will keep any Greek attack from coming up the middle. Actually our best bet may be the aerial route into the box. Argentina's defence are not that big. My only fear is our bad crosses lead to to clearances that become quick counter-attacks, which will destroy Greece.

Otto must have no faith in Spyropoulos' defencive capabilities, I mean is he the only left-footed player on the squad, and he still can't even sniff the field. I would like to see:

-----------------------------------------tzorvas----------------------------------------------------------papastathopoulos------------kyriakos-----------avraam-----------------------torosides-------------------------------------------------------------------spyropoulos-----------------------------------------------tziolis------------------------------------------------ninis----------------------------------samaras------------------------karagounis------------------------------------------gekas-----------------------------------------------------

or

--------------------------------------tzorvas---------------------------------------------------------papasthapoulos-------------kyriakos-------------------avraam---------------------torosidis-----------------------------------------------------------------spyropoulos-------------------------------tziolis----------------------katsouranis------------------------------------------ninis--------------------------------------------------karagounis----------------------------------------------------samaras------------------------------------------------

I like Samaras up front, he's the only Greek striker with the ability to hold the ball up-front and allow Karagounis, Ninis or whomever to join the attack. Spyro can add width on the left and can provide some quality service, and Tor with Ninis on the right would be exciting. Tziolis, is a bit slow, but I think he has been solid in the middle, but not sure if he can handle it all by himself.

[CalGreek]

cant seem to get the line ups to align correctly, but hopefully you all can decipher what i wrote

[CalGreek]

got it! :rolleyes:

--------------------------------tzorvas---------------------------

--------papast----------kyriakos--------avraam-----------

toro------------------------------------------------spyro

------------tziolis--------------------kats------------------

ninis-----------------------------------kara------------

---------------samaras--------------------------

or

--------------------------tzorvas-------------------------

---papasta----------------kyriakos--------------avraam-----

--toro----------------------------------------------spyro------

-----------------------tziolis---------------------------------

-----ninis---------------samaras------------karagounis----

-----------------------gekas---------------------------

[mangas21]

I am watching Slovenia v. USA, and to all the Greeks that use the "Greece is a small country" to excuse Greece's bad play need to watch Slovenia play. Organised, positive, patient, smart, unafraid and play to win. If Greece's players had a better attitude, and players who had a bit more confidence they would win some respect and probably some more games.

excelllent excellent point...................1000000000% agree....

greek players play scared: partly due to inferiority complex that still exists, partly due to cultural circumstances, but in this case, MAINLY due to otto continouisly telling them they CANT play more open.

i dont know if otto tells them, or does he give them free reign to adjust and thye just dont do it....i dont know.....the transformation ater the red card was night and day....

[Clover22]

got it! :rolleyes:

--------------------------------tzorvas---------------------------

--------papast----------kyriakos--------avraam-----------

toro------------------------------------------------spyro

------------tziolis--------------------kats------------------

ninis-----------------------------------kara------------

---------------samaras--------------------------

or

--------------------------tzorvas-------------------------

---papasta----------------kyriakos--------------avraam-----

--toro----------------------------------------------spyro------

-----------------------tziolis---------------------------------

-----ninis---------------samaras------------karagounis----

-----------------------gekas---------------------------

Those are great; thats what I would do...and it would be nice to see Spyro play. He should have BEEN playing already.

[Clover22]

Ottos comments "we don't have a Rooney or a Messi blah blah" are dumb. More faith and confidence in the players and you would see better results. As long as the players have the will to win themselves; forget Otto if he's going to be negative.

[Clover22]

drak, i said that above.....most goals do happen from broken plays, opportunistic chances and the like.......i agree...

my only point is this: dont get excitied over beating a 10 man side...greece would have had so much more to lose if they did not win, than what they stand to gain if they did win...

when your opponent is a man down, you need to win...period......

are our expectations so low that we are estatic when we beat a side that was a man down?

I dont agree, at all.

What happened was that with 10 men, Greece got the mental boost, and gave Rehagel the forsight to actually throw men forward --- AND KEEP THEM THERE.

I mean think about it....is a one man difference really accounting for the difference between a Greece with 0 chances on goal and a Greece thats making dozens of them? No, its really not. Nigeria wasnt strong defensively, its not like they didnt have men back.

10 men means you'll dominate possesion, because you will have the extra man in the back as a safety net. When teams are with 10 they play more compact and behind the ball normally, meaning they could have had Greece passing and doing long balls all day long trying to break it.

BUT --- Rehagel made the move to actually attack, and the team started moving, passing on the ground and MAKING RUNS. Its not like Even Avraam and Kyrgiakos were up in the area for 70 mins and there were simply too many Greeks.

Numbers advantage is definitley an advantage, but its really been exagerated. The determining factor was the card, but only because it put optimism in the Greek team and Rehagel to start attacking, making movements in the area, passing on the ground and keep men forward.

Even with 10 minutes to go at 2-1, Greek players were STILL staying forward. First time I've ever seen this with Rehagel.

1 man is one less striker up top. If you play a 4-4-1, is your defense really going to be worse than a 4-4-2? Nigeria had 10 men behind the ball. That is not exactly easy for a team thats been ridiculed for not playing any offense to make chances.

Credit really is due to Greece, and instead of some Greeks celebrating, I see the world just getting angry and trying to pin the entire match on one card.

Also, can somebody try and be more objective.........Nigeria were winning 1-0 because of a TOTAL GIFT. WHY IS NOBODY ELSE REMEMBERING THIS??!?! I don't remember Nigeria exactly making chances or being particularly special when they had 11 men.

I've seen plenty of occasions where a team goes down 10 men and still controls the game, even excels. Look at Serbia vs Ghana......Serbia after going down to 10 even became the better team on the field yet. The only reason they lost was a fluke PK that could have just as easily have happened with 11 men, and they were still going forward. I remember a game against Portugal where Greece went down 10 men at the 20th min or so and ended up taking the lead and getting a 1-1 draw in 2003. It wasnt a 'soft' friendly either.

It is not hockey, lacrosse where when theres a less man the whole system is screwed up and not everbody can be marked, because 25% of your team is missing. 10 men still is a disadvantage, but still lets not exagerate that oh 10 men now its an easy job.

Nigeria played quite poorly - 10 men or not. Lagerback did a horrid job, and the defense was inadequate. Greece has 2 CB's hanging back, so when the posession is in the area its not like theres a free man everywhere. Often when you see teams go down to 10 they become even harder to break.

Everybody, mostly haters of Greece just accredit the whole performance to the red card. The kickstart, the momentum did help us, of course. But Greece were making tons of chances and playing attacking football regardless. The response of Greece was excellent, they were given nothing, and they did really show what kind of offense they are capable of when they actually get to play it, rather than shying back which Rehagel sets them to.

Exactly!

[Clover22]

got it! :rolleyes:

--------------------------------tzorvas---------------------------

--------papast----------kyriakos--------avraam-----------

toro------------------------------------------------spyro

------------tziolis--------------------kats------------------

ninis-----------------------------------kara------------

---------------samaras--------------------------

or

--------------------------tzorvas-------------------------

---papasta----------------kyriakos--------------avraam-----

--toro----------------------------------------------spyro------

-----------------------tziolis---------------------------------

-----ninis---------------samaras------------karagounis----

-----------------------gekas---------------------------

Don't care for Avraam though; prefer Moras. Salp has to be in there at some point.

[gcp]

And to those of us that always blame the ref for our in-efficiencies, well let me tell you, my other team, the USA, was robbed today!! Talk about a bad ref day at the office :box: :box: :box:

It's Friday evening in Bama and I'm drinking my single mault and watching the Greece Nigeria game again to make sure we won :blink: :nw:

[Genome]

[thrylos]

Looking at all the lineups reminds me of one thing with the experience that I have.

In Canada I've won national championships; my teammates have played for team Canada and professionally in Europe.

One thing I learned is that you need to have a savvy veteran in the middle controlling the game. BUT, the moment you have two savvy veterans in the middle you got a problem.

Kastouranis and Karagounis cannot be on the field in mid together at all times. They do not have the endurance to do the dirty work.

I like the lineups that only has one of them in there. That is why I usually include one of them in my projected lineups and why I always like Basinas in there.

[mangas21]

all right thryllos, u seem like someone who can answer this given your on the field experience.......

1. why the sudden change after the red card? tactics? formation? confidence?

2. did otto instruct them to attack or did they do it on their own? how much latitude do you think they have to change the game and move forward at their own will?

3. why cant they put more pressure on all teams all the time? is otto telling them to lay back and play donkey ball? not asking for brazil style or spain, just seems they cant/ or dont know how to chase a game once they give a goal up...and their offense looks inept and disorganized all the time. is the priority to hold the deep defensive postions at teh expense of creating better offesnsive chances?

the answers are not obvious to me, and if you arent in thelocker roonm, maybe not to you either...but form your experience what do u c as the explanation for theses questions?

[as5664]

Watching the Nigeria match, I kept seeing Rehhagel on the sidelines violently gesturing for the team to attack. Seems the players like to stay in their shell and play behind the ball, especially when they are in the lead.

It's all or nothing now, I don't understand their mentality. Otto's fault for selecting such a crappy 23

[plato-ny]

Ghana-Australia match ends in a 1-1 draw. Australia played with 10 players from the 24th minute and were the better team in the last 30 minutes while Ghana was unable to score one goal.

Yet, Greece scores 2 goals against 10-man Nigeria and the media makes it out as if Nigeria gave the victory to Greece on a silver platter after the red card.

[Akritis_1944]

Ghana-Australia match ends in a 1-1 draw. Australia played with 10 players from the 24th minute and were the better team in the last 30 minutes while Ghana was unable to score one goal.

Yet, Greece scores 2 goals against 10-man Nigeria and the media makes it out as if Nigeria gave the victory to Greece on a silver platter after the red card.

Yes there is a clear bias and double standard when it comes to comparing Greece with most other nations.

Your examples show the glaring hypocricy that exists when reporting on Greece.

It is one of the things I have commented on in since the WC has begun. There are some really anti-Hellenic and bigoted opinions being aimed at us.

Another example of the sheer double standards is how Serbia beat a 10 man German team and scored 2 minutes after the Germans were reduced to 10 and were not the dominant side in the match, but they have since been praised for being "giant-killers" when we out played Nigeria in all facets for most of the match.

What is happening you might ask? I'll tell you all...Greeks are hated and I'm not sure why. It's a bit dissapointing personally.