Genome Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Completely agree ... it's also no coincidence that Malta has been shooting from midfield now for a couple of times (!) ... they must have found a weakness ... could it be our goalie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 This game should have been 100-0 !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Salpi out, Mitroglou in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Three minutes of added time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 End of the game, Greece 3 - 1 Malta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 We were fantastic in the first half and terrible in the 2nd which doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 We were fantastic in the first half and terrible in the 2nd which doesn't exactly inspire confidence.I would just say Malta was horrendous in the 1st - it's not us that were all that great. I would agree that we were terrible in the 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I disagree. I mean i think they were poor but our tempo was good, we moved the ball very well down the right hand side and Toro put in some great deliveries, while Fetfa looked very lively on the left. Certainly the best we've played under Santos. We have 4 games to go now, 3 of them are away from home. 1/9/11 we go to Israel. We played them in 2009 and drew 1-1 there. We should have won but didn't and that makes me nervous because they are tough to beat at home and we aren't exactly prolific goalscorers. 5/9/11 Latvia away, we should win this but you never know because it's the 2nd away game within the space of 4 days. The travelling could take it's toll. 6/10/11 Croatia at home is the big one. I can't see us winning that to be honest. A draw maybe but they have better players and if they need a result against us i'm afraid they might get it. 10/10/11 Georgia away. This is a horrible final game to have because they are so well organised - typical Ketsbaia team. In their 3 home games they've yet to concede a goal! I always get pessimistic when it comes to the national team but I think realistically we'll get 6-8 points from those remaining games, while I expect Croatia to get about 10 so I fear we might be in the play offs, which is a horrible place to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarvis1981 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Until Karagounis is taken out of the lineup, you should not expect a better Greek team. Malta is one of the weakest teams in all of Europe. The midfield should be having a field day. All I see now from Kara is back passing and falling down when he tries to go one on one. He is the captain....his team-mates will try to act the same way. Look for the dive instead of the play. He slows the game down with his falls and his back passes. Back passes are used when someone is being pressured and there is no other option. The midfielder needs to look forward first and be able to run. Hey...he was a great player at one time but he's the weakest link out there and he's in a key position. If Kara is replaced with a decent mid fielder Greece would have scored 5 goals today. Time for him to step down....he's an embarrasement to watch right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omonoia9 Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 Watching this game, I was very aware that our 4th keeper was in goal today. I am not looking forward to seeing him Tuesday night in New York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irlandos Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Saw the game from the 2nd half. We were really bad! The last time I saw Konstantopoulos, he was brilliant! What happened today? He was full of nerves! Ninis was clearly far better than anyone on the Malta team but had some sloppy moments. Karagounis has contributed so much to the NT but needs to be moved to the bench: he clearly cannot contribute as much as he used to. I was glad to see Santos introduce K. Papadopoulos and start Fetfatzidis. Maybe one day I'll get my wish and see Koutsianikoulis in there too. Over all, I was under the impression that the home team were playing a friendly game and did as much as they needed to do to win it, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Ok I know I must come across as quite a moany bastard because all I do is criticise the laziness of many of our players, and that's something i would not tolerate as a coach, but this is why I rant. Please go to 1:58 mins of this video to see Malta's goal. Schembri collects the ball and runs past 3 players without anyone even making a challenge. I think the first is Ninis who makes a half hearted attempt but then Karagounis & Katsouranis (or is that Tziolis? ) literally stand their and watch him. Karagounis actually plants his feet and fails to move as if he's playing in the garden with his 5 year old kid and he's letting him dribble past him. Ok, after that Moras' defence is appalling, he just basically falls on the floor but the 3 in midfield are inexcusable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU4j3cQnFNA...feature=related Then Karagounis has the cheek in a post-match interview to say "do you expect us to run 100% for 90 minutes in June". What a clown! This sort of effort is completely unacceptable. In the Premier League a manager would have massacred them for such little effort. If we press like that when we come up against Perisic, Modric, Krankjaer we'll lose. Mind you that's how we were pressing at the World Cup for the first game and a half so why should I expect any different? <_< We need to get Karagounis and one of Tziolis or Katsouranis out of this team now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcp Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 We all know that we've been discussing this "work ethic" issue for years now. Typical Greek attitude and it all comes down to effort....or lack there of! I wanted Santos to change their mentality but realistically, there's no one man that can change the laziness of a culture. Sad!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarvis1981 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Ok I know I must come across as quite a moany bastard because all I do is criticise the laziness of many of our players, and that's something i would not tolerate as a coach, but this is why I rant. Please go to 1:58 mins of this video to see Malta's goal. Schembri collects the ball and runs past 3 players without anyone even making a challenge. I think the first is Ninis who makes a half hearted attempt but then Karagounis & Katsouranis (or is that Tziolis? ) literally stand their and watch him. Karagounis actually plants his feet and fails to move as if he's playing in the garden with his 5 year old kid and he's letting him dribble past him. Ok, after that Moras' defence is appalling, he just basically falls on the floor but the 3 in midfield are inexcusable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU4j3cQnFNA...feature=related Then Karagounis has the cheek in a post-match interview to say "do you expect us to run 100% for 90 minutes in June". What a clown! This sort of effort is completely unacceptable. In the Premier League a manager would have massacred them for such little effort. If we press like that when we come up against Perisic, Modric, Krankjaer we'll lose. Mind you that's how we were pressing at the World Cup for the first game and a half so why should I expect any different? <_< We need to get Karagounis and one of Tziolis or Katsouranis out of this team now! Your post is a perfect explanation why Karagounis has to go.It's not that he was partly to blame for the goal, and that he mentions that the weather was an issue. It's that players like Ninis see what Kara does and then will start to do the same thing. The Greek team needs a new captain and leader otherwise the current crop of good young Greek players will be waisted. Zagorakis from the National team when he couldn't do what he used to do at a high level. You can respect a player like that. Zagorakis needs to have a face to face chat with Kara and let him know that it's time to move on. If he doesn't then it's time to get the press on him if he refuses to retire gracefully. I look at German teams with players like Klose, he stated after the last World cup that it would probably be his last as there are others who will help the team more. It's a NATIONAL TEAM....not a club team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Ok I know I must come across as quite a moany bastard because all I do is criticise the laziness of many of our players, and that's something i would not tolerate as a coach, but this is why I rant. Please go to 1:58 mins of this video to see Malta's goal. Schembri collects the ball and runs past 3 players without anyone even making a challenge. I think the first is Ninis who makes a half hearted attempt but then Karagounis & Katsouranis (or is that Tziolis? ) literally stand their and watch him. Karagounis actually plants his feet and fails to move as if he's playing in the garden with his 5 year old kid and he's letting him dribble past him. Ok, after that Moras' defence is appalling, he just basically falls on the floor but the 3 in midfield are inexcusable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU4j3cQnFNA...feature=related Then Karagounis has the cheek in a post-match interview to say "do you expect us to run 100% for 90 minutes in June". What a clown! This sort of effort is completely unacceptable. In the Premier League a manager would have massacred them for such little effort. If we press like that when we come up against Perisic, Modric, Krankjaer we'll lose. Mind you that's how we were pressing at the World Cup for the first game and a half so why should I expect any different? <_< We need to get Karagounis and one of Tziolis or Katsouranis out of this team now! Your post is a perfect explanation why Karagounis has to go.It's not that he was partly to blame for the goal, and that he mentions that the weather was an issue. It's that players like Ninis see what Kara does and then will start to do the same thing. The Greek team needs a new captain and leader otherwise the current crop of good young Greek players will be waisted. Zagorakis from the National team when he couldn't do what he used to do at a high level. You can respect a player like that. Zagorakis needs to have a face to face chat with Kara and let him know that it's time to move on. If he doesn't then it's time to get the press on him if he refuses to retire gracefully. I look at German teams with players like Klose, he stated after the last World cup that it would probably be his last as there are others who will help the team more. It's a NATIONAL TEAM....not a club team. Excellent post Jarvis. GCP i don't expect Santos to change a culture but it would be unfair to suggest that everyone in the squad is lazy. K.Papadopoulos, Avraam (regardless of his ability), Salpingidis, Fetfatzidis, Torosidis, Kyrgiakos, Amanatidisi, Stoltidis, Zagorakis, Pliatsikas, etc are all examples of hard working, passionate Greek players. However as Jarvis says the senior players like Karagounis and Katsouranis are influential in terms of the example they set. When they don't press and Tziolis and Samaras don't press and work hard that mentality will slowly filter down to the younger players. Ninis was alot more hard working when he first burst onto the scene compared to now. So while Santos can't change the entire mentality of a culture he can affect the mentality of a team but making an example of the lazy players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 i partly agree about kara and kats...its time for them to go..karagounis should retire.. despite this, and despite the fact that they were partly to blame for the goal scored on us, they were factors in all of our goals..interesting...with a new team coming around the corner, its time to finish these players off...im not opposed to them playing here and there in some of our qualifiers, but when euro comes around and they are too old, we need some players to step into their shoes, which is a problem..they need to gain expereince and now is the time the thing is, we have a problem in greece with CMs..who should play? fotakis? kafes? they are 29 and 32...we can push k. papadopoulous up, but he offers nothing in attack (apart from set pieces) is kone good enough? maybe try and call some younger players up? we need to shuffle things around and see what we can do WITHOUT kara and kats in the 11.. also, i need to say this bc it made me laugh...ok, our center let that guy run through our team, but what kind of tackle was that from moras? i saw him do it and i laughed..to me, he just seems like a slightly above average player...i will even say avraam is better...but this makes me miss a player like kyrgiakos..if k papadopoulis is to play CB, he needs a strong assured partner to guide him around.. with time, our attack can soar...fetz was great, in my opinions ninis played a very good match, and salpi is a good compliment...would be nice to have the option of a point man there...i wish mitroglou had a better attitude, i think he is skilled enough to be useful for us... konstantopoulos was shaky, it is obvious this was bc tzorva and sifakis are out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Overall a good game though we could have scored a couple more...good in the 1st half, dropped a bit in the 2nd but picked up again toward the end. Our defense was like a brick wall just standing around looking at them at times so not the best they could have done...Konstantopoulos I've seen play very well but didn't have a commanding presence; he just needs more time. Salpi can be a dangerous player and can score goals if you can connect w/ him, but he often doesn't get to the ball since he's short. And he doesn't really create on his own. I would have liked to see Mitroglou in sooner. Samaras in that position would have been good instead of his usual left to right drifting. And I'm still hoping Gekas will come back! I agree about Kats and Kara; I wouldn't start them anymore at this point. But we look to be on the right track and I think we're going to be really good! Fetfatzidis and Ninis were the highlights for me. Bravo Santos & team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 i partly agree about kara and kats...its time for them to go..karagounis should retire.. despite this, and despite the fact that they were partly to blame for the goal scored on us, they were factors in all of our goals..interesting...with a new team coming around the corner, its time to finish these players off...im not opposed to them playing here and there in some of our qualifiers, but when euro comes around and they are too old, we need some players to step into their shoes, which is a problem..they need to gain expereince and now is the time the thing is, we have a problem in greece with CMs..who should play? fotakis? kafes? they are 29 and 32...we can push k. papadopoulous up, but he offers nothing in attack (apart from set pieces) is kone good enough? maybe try and call some younger players up? we need to shuffle things around and see what we can do WITHOUT kara and kats in the 11.. also, i need to say this bc it made me laugh...ok, our center let that guy run through our team, but what kind of tackle was that from moras? i saw him do it and i laughed..to me, he just seems like a slightly above average player...i will even say avraam is better...but this makes me miss a player like kyrgiakos..if k papadopoulis is to play CB, he needs a strong assured partner to guide him around.. with time, our attack can soar...fetz was great, in my opinions ninis played a very good match, and salpi is a good compliment...would be nice to have the option of a point man there...i wish mitroglou had a better attitude, i think he is skilled enough to be useful for us... konstantopoulos was shaky, it is obvious this was bc tzorva and sifakis are out.. I agree with everything you say except for the midfield, in my opinion the importance of the centre midfield area can't be overestimated. Despite what the media say Messi isn't the one that makes Barca great, he contributes, but Xavi, Iniest and Busquets make them tick (hence the reason that Spain are so similar in style to Barca and better than Argentina). The most important thing in football is defending, which includes pressing. If you're solid you always have a chance. If you don't press then you can't be solid and if a team is good enough to dominate possession against you you're in serious trouble. PAO's biggest weakness is the same as Greece's: the inability to press in midfield. Next time you see Barca play watch how Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta and Alves press their opponents. Ok, they dominate possession because they are so good in possession, but they always win possession because of their pressing ability. They work so hard. What we saw against Malta wasn't a one off. I see it every single game, for both Greece and PAO. If I could have access to a whole game as a stream i'd list every time it happens and you'd be shocked to see that Katsouranis and Karagounis NEVER press. Having K.Papadopoulos in there would be hugely beneficial, it doesn't matter if he's not going to attack. Busquets doesn't attack, Makalele didn't attack, Gilberto never attacked, etc. A holding midfielder's job is to break up the play, that's it. He has the height to win headers from goal kicks and excellent positional sense, passion and strength. If Ninis is also in central midfield with Fetfa just in front of them then the attacking onus would be on them. I'd also be pleased to see Fotakis have a chance. He works hard and is a neat passer. Not everyone in the team has to be a world beater, sometimes someone that's willing to work hard for the cause can be a good cog in the wheel. I have no idea what sort of condition Pliatsikas is in but a player from the u-21s would also be an option. Torosidis in centre mid would also be good if Maniatis/Vintra/Galitsios can step up to the plate as right backs. After all, a midfield 3 of Torosidis, K.Papa, and Ninis could be competitive against anyone. There are options, the current lineup simply doesn't not work though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 i agree about k papadopoulos...i wasnt saying dont put him into the midfield cause he cant attack...i was just pointing out that we will need a player with extra attacking capabilities to partner him. i think he should definitely be moved into the midfield we just need to find the right combinations..sokratis can partner avraam in the back, although i wish papa was paired with someone more reliable...lets hope manolas continues to improve and has a solid season next year..i hope to see him develop more and start getting involved in the ethniki. yes, i believe fotakis can play, but i dont want to see him in the starting 11 in the euro...i dont think toro should play in the midfield either..possibly to fill in but he is fit for the right wingback position and his running is important to open up space on that side..he is a quality crosser as well and can provide great attacking width that vyntra is unable to...he is also a quick defender...i wouldnt be opposed to seeing how it works, with possibly maniatis/vyntra filling in the right...i just think hes a huge asset on that wing. i too am dissapointed about pliatsikas, he seemed a neccesary addition to the national team and a good replacement for the aging veterans...i like ninis moving into a attacking midfield position too, but i dont know if he is tough enough to play that position in the big time... either way, things need to be shuffled around and figured out soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcp Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Good comments by all! What's the deal with Mitroglou anyway, is it only attitude or is it lazyness also? He can sore but if he's a problematic character I think I understand why Otto didn't use him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akritis_1944 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 6/10/11 Croatia at home is the big one. I can't see us winning that to be honest. A draw maybe but they have better players and if they need a result against us i'm afraid they might get it. You have more faith in the Croatian team then Croatians themselves!?!?!I watched the Australia v Serbia friendly last night with 5 mates all of whom are Croatian. Ok 1 of them is half Serbianised-Bulgarian (SKOPJE) and they said that the Croatian NT is way past their glory days that they said they expected them to be playing for 2nd place behind Hellas. Now I too am apprehensive to heap praise or have lofty expectations when it comes to our ethniki with Kara and Cazzu as the midfielders but when 5 Croatians tell you this then I take much more notice than you talking up a Croatian team that has done nothing for 13 years! I don't rate Croatia and I would not be surprised if we beat them in the home match. yes inidividually some of their players are world class (Modric, Mandzukic) but as a team they don't have it and I am not scared. We may well lose against them, but it is because we suck not that they are head and shoulders better than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 NO WAY are we going to lose to Croatia, no freaking way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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