chameleon65 Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Well I just read this and thought how much are the trifilli worth? Maybe one day we'll get close to ManU ;) LONDON, Feb 17 (Reuters) - Manchester United are still the richest club in the world of football, as revenues from the game's top 20 teams heads towards the two billion pound ($3.78 billion) mark this year, a report showed on Thursday. United's income of 171.5 million pounds ($323.8 million) for the 2003-04 season kept them top of the pile for the eighth year in a row, according to the Football Money League report published by consultants Deloitte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 chelsea is the richest club in football then real madrid. the difference is that man u's money accounts are transperant same with poa, they could be a rich club if you took into account vardinpoofta's bank accounts. but how much of that money is up to him ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos13 Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Avtually that's not the point. The report by Delloite and Touche of London lists clubs based on their annual TURNOVER. That is the profit they make compared to what they spend. Manchester United ARE the most profitable club in the world because of the huge merchandise and CL and ticket revenues. Chelsea are NOT the richest club. Note I use the word 'club'. Chelsea have a very rich owner, richer than entire ManU. But that's his money, not Chelsea's money. What I am saying is that Chelsea FC does NOT generate bigger turnover than ManU and many other clubs. In fact the money they have spent this season is much more than they brought in through merchendise, CL, and ticketing etc. There was a report a couple of weeks ago showing how much loss they were making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I spose it comes down to how you use the word richest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evalagoal Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 And how well you market, and not by the size of your wallet... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 PAO is not even profitable.. 6 months ago the deficit was 18mn euros.... ;) If we list the 20 biggest debtors in european football I am sure that AEK, Thrynos will be in the top 5, and PAO will also make it to the top 20!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos13 Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Pappou: This season alone PAO has made a lot of money from CL. 9 points in CL group stages equates to around 12-13m Euros. Add to that the TV money and advertising and ticket sales, there is noway PAO are running at a loss. Maybe that's what they tell you because that's what they want us to believe. On the more general issue, only clubs that end the financial year in profit can be listed as profitable businesses. Chelsea are running at a loss because the money they have spent on players far outweighs the money they have made from CL, merchendise, tickets TV etc. They have spent 200million Euro in the last 2 years alone on players and their salaries. They won't make that money so easily. But Abramovitch has money and 200m Euro to him is alike 200Euro to you and I. He is rich, but Chelsea are running at a loss. He doesn't care though. This is some entertainment to him, and once he gets bored he will sell and find another hobby. As for Manchester United, if Malcom Glazer take over, it will catastrophe for them. He wants to buy the most financially successful club on millions of borrowed money. He will even sell Old Trafford to finance players etc. In other words, Manchester United will go from being millions of Euro in profit to hundreds of millions of Euro IN DEBT. Very dangerous game to play and that's why the fans will kill the guy if they get their hands on him . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachos Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 I like this topic. That you can learn some economics from phantis I never expected!! :LOL: Pappou, are you an economist? (you said you work at a bank) B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Pappou: This season alone PAO has made a lot of money from CL. 9 points in CL group stages equates to around 12-13m Euros. Add to that the TV money and advertising and ticket sales, there is noway PAO are running at a loss. Maybe that's what they tell you because that's what they want us to believe. Are you crazy re? We only had 2 wins and 3 draws!!! How can you get 13mn euros!!!! I think a win = 300,000 euros and a draw = 100,000 how did you come up with this amount of money? :o And when I say a loss I am talking generally not just for this year... end of year 2003 PAO was -18mn euro.... If I accept what you say (not in those numbes though) maybe now we are -15mn euro!!!! I am not sure.... The financial statements are due in March, I will tell you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos13 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 This is because according to the English press 1 point in CL is worth around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Your info is incorrect... There is no way that a draw equals 1mn pounds!!! The draw is 100.000 the win is 300.000 but the big monmey is if you go through to the next round (not sure how much it is to be honest)... I am guessing Irlandos will have all these details posted for us.... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_kafes Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Ok first of all... The money from UEFA for a draw are 100K Euros and 300K for a win. What you have read about each point been equal to 1M might have to do with clubs like ManU who have a 70000 capacity ground along with their big TV rights and sponsorships. Second.... Deloitte & Touche Rich List is about INCOME. This is why Chelsea is on number 4 for 2005. Some of the clubs in there just manage to break even (REAL is one of them and they consider this a big success since they have been operating on LOSS for many years) About PAO We can never make it to the RICH LIST top 20 for many reasons: 1. Very small market (Other than Greece no one else is interested in watching us play therefore our TV rights are very low) 2. Very small ground (this is why I insist that we need at least a 50000 new stadium. You cannot create a big team without having loads of customers week in week out) 3. Sponsorship for PAO shirt is about 2,5 MIllion Euros a year while Siemens Mobile pays Real Madrid 20 Million p/a About the RICH LIST (what is calculated) They calculate the income from all revenue sources as disclosed in reported accounts or other reliable sources for the previous financial year i.e 2003/04. All figures are translated at 30 June exchange rates. The figures do not include VAT anywhere and income from player transfers is excluded unless stated in the report. They categorise the revenue in 3 main categories 1. Matchday (this includes gate revenues and merchandise sold from the stadium facilities - food & beverage, shirts etc.) 2. Broacasting (this includes turnover from TV rights of any national or international games- Championship, Cups, Uefa competitions, Friendlies) 3. Commercial (this includes any sponsorship revenue from Sports goods companies -Nike,Addidas- revenue from companies that dvertise on the shirt or on the Ground) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Your info is incorrect... There is no way that a draw equals 1mn pounds!!! The draw is 100.000 the win is 300.000 but the big monmey is if you go through to the next round (not sure how much it is to be honest)... I am guessing Irlandos will have all these details posted for us.... ;) You are wrong. Panos is right.You think that Group 14 would hang around for just 300.000 euro's a win whilst UEFA get all that TV Money and advertsing? Anyway, I reme reading 2 years ago when AEK finished with 6 draws "AEK)Psomiadis dhladh) yesterday, received fro UEFA their last installment of 6 million euro's from their CL campaign". That included everthing, points, TV money and adverising (billboards / back of ticket advertising). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chameleon65 Posted February 19, 2005 Author Share Posted February 19, 2005 I agree if PAO have some $ and get support from other sponsors or investors, find or build a new stadium that would at least have 40k seats. Obiously it's easier said than done since it's a big financial risk. I think UEFA should take the example of the NFL and use a revenue sharing system where the the bigger teams share their piece of the pie to lower ranking teams so it can make things more competitive instead of seeing the same old teams at the top of the standings. But I don't think that will happen soon. I think also it comes down to greed where they want to maintain the big market for the traditional big western euro-teams instead of shifting some of it to the east and balkan side of europe. Is there a player salary cap in the UEFA? Here's one idea, maybe PAO should be the 1st team in europe to put cheerleaders. Can you picture some hot babes in green short skirts and tight white shirts B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 chelsea is the richest club in football not really.... i mean they do have the most valuable assets probably- but the team itself isnt that rich- its just that they have a superinvestor obranovich who can do anything- the teams actual value isnt the same. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiotis Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 yes i agree we need better marketing and sponsoring etc. but that comes if we start bringin in a lot of success consistently in europe and greece, cuz say we have a 40,000 seat stadium, how many times do you think it will fill up, 5-6 times a year, fans dont come to the games these days, regular fans are scared off, and there arent enough of the fanatical ones to fill a stadium, just recently we had around 2500 ppl at the kallithea game and 7000 at the sevilla game, it all starts from the crowd, if we seell out every game like the big teams(man u, chelsea, arsenal, etc.) we will get paid more for sponsorship and all that good stuff will come along, but the key to getting all of that is success...hopefully we can get some of that soon enough cuz we know how pissy our fans are and turn against the organization in a matter of a two game spell :angry: :tdown: :tdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallofsoccer88 Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 just recently we had around 2500 ppl at the kallithea game and 7000 at the sevilla game, it all starts from the crowd, if we seell out every game like the big teams(man u, chelsea, arsenal, etc.) we will get paid more for sponsorship and all that good stuff will come along, The ticket prices for games at the Leoforo are very expensive (the Seville game was obscene :blink: :tdown: ) due to the small capticity (only about 13000). Charging folks 60-70 Euro for decent seats (when Greeks don't make a ton of money in the 1st place :( ) I figure at a large stadium like OAKA if they can charge 15-40 Euro for tickets and bring in about 45000-50000+ (derbies, CL/UEFA Cup) and a decent amount for regular league games (20000-25000) it can break even despite paying rent :la: :unsure: . I think PAO needs a new stadium (or OAKA) for this to happen. Even playing in OAKA for a few years in the short term wouldn't be a bad idea (they've done it before). Also, isin't Leoforos banned for use in the Champs League by UEFA?? It'd be a good excuse to put those games in OAKA :la: . Presently, you could also put league games in the Leoforos and derbies + European games in OAKA. Though I don't know how much AEK are paying in rent so this may not be the best idea. Supposedly it's expensive, but if we get good results in Europe would help out in making a profit. Granted, they were bankrupt and almost got relegated due to it <_< . In short, if the above were to happen, PAO management would have to lower ticket prices cuz it'd look stupid to be charging 40 Euro for shitty seats at a big stadium. Either that or everyone would be sitting in the upper deck :LOL: :( :blink: ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 not really.... i mean they do have the most valuable assets probably- but the team itself isnt that rich- its just that they have a superinvestor obranovich who can do anything- the teams actual value isnt the same. ;) ye, like I said; it depends how you define rich in this case doesent it ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_kafes Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 ...if we seell out every game like the big teams(man u, chelsea, arsenal, etc.) we will get paid more for sponsorship and all that good stuff will come along, but the key to getting all of that is success...hopefully we can get some of that soon enough cuz we know how pissy our fans are and turn against the organization in a matter of a two game spell :angry: :tdown: :tdown: You are forgetting some really important things. Those big sponsors have much bigger target groups (bigger markets than Greece) and that means they are ready so spend more money. (the most lucrative shirt sponsorship deal is Bayern with Deutsche Telecom worth 17m p/a but Germany is the Largest European market that will never happen in Greece we are 10 million people) The same goes for Broadcasting money (they cannot go up as the Greek championship is a joke and no one cares to watch it in Europe) Serie A or La Liga are broadcasted all over the world. The only thing that PAO can do to increase income is build a 40000 plus stadium with REASONABLE ticket pricing and make good European runs every single year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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