warzycha Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 To anyone who can help Sorry to sound dumb but there are some points I do not understand: 1. What is the point of the play off system and why has it been introduced. 2. The decision for Kalamaria vs Olympiakos should have been left until the end of the season. Not that I am making excuses but Pana I think would have been 4 points clear, then down to 1. Perhaps psychologically this affected them in games vs Iraklis, OFI. No excuses they were poor performances and would Pana have derserved the title? Also the EPO decision to reward 3 points to Oly was dumb and deduct 3 from Kalamaria? I would have thought the game should have been replayed. If the EPO decision is upheld, talk about winning on title on technicality. 3. Is there any talk of reducing the Greek league from 16 teams to 10 teams - play each team 4 times with 36 games. They call this a Super League but how can you have 3 teams relegated each year. Should be 10 teams with 2nd division champion playing for the right to be in Super League. To me Super League means elite not mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 @ Warzycha: 1. The playoff system was adopted to create some more interest and to make more money for the teams. Every year towards the end of the season there are always many teams that know they can't win the title, they are too far from second or third place, and they are saved from relegation. The playoffs creates more incentives for more teams to play hard all the way to the end. Now, the 5th place is coveted somehow by few good teams that will play hard for it. I read somewhere that the superleague gets to directly negotiate TV rights for the playoff games and it's their only way to generate income. For the regular season each team negotiates their own TV rights. Also money from tickets for the teams must be another reason. 2. CAS decided to reject Kalamaria's appeal, so it's over. Another blow to Greek football that declared a champion on a technicality. 3. I am with you on that. Reducing the teams to 12 imo would make the league much more interesting. Greece does not have the market for 16 teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBoy13 Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 today at 2.30 pm (greek time) it is Tziggers interview... gia na doume an tha pei tipota kalo i tha pei tipota vlakeies opos panta.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Tziger interview now. the big news: "o Panathinaikos 8a ginei polymetohikos. Twra, amesa" :o Vardinogiannis will stay with the 50% of shares. The rest will be bought by anyone who is interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 so does this mean PEK can effectively co-own/co-run the club with tzigger? not sure how that would work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 It sounds that 50% of the shares will be up for anyone to buy. I am desperately searching around for that check book ... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBoy13 Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 ante akousa kai kati kalo... 50% einai anoixto gia opoin thelei... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 The 50% will be made up of new shares up to 80 million euro, which will be allocated to football operations (and transfers). Vardinogiannis will keep the 50%, Erasitehnis already has 10%, so I gather that in reality 40% is up for grabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoglani Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 The 50% will be made up of new shares up to 80 million euro, which will be allocated to football operations (and transfers). Vardinogiannis will keep the 50%, Erasitehnis already has 10%, so I gather that in reality 40% is up for grabs. independend of the the shares Next year we gonna be the champions :nw: :nw: :nw: :nw: :nw: :nw: :nw: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYPAO13 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 its a start but NOT GOOD ENOUGH. GET RID OF TZIGGER TOTALLY, hopefully its a start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenTitus Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I say get rid of the negativity and the endless bitching. I 'll be back on the development when I figure out what this is all about. All I 'll say at this point is that Vardinogiannides have a solid financial basis that has secured the club financially through the years and I would be very careful before forcing them out - especially when the self-proclaimed saviour is a guy who successfully manages other peoples' money. All in all, this sounds like a great prospect but I 'm not sure what PEK are trying to do generally speaking so I 'll just wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 It sounds that 50% of the shares will be up for anyone to buy. I am desperately searching around for that check book ... :P I think there selling PAO on E-Bay :LOL: GreenTitus: Vgenopoulos is a big business man - he knows his stuff. Also remember if you want to compare professions, Vardinogiannis was a rallycar driver :LOL: 50% is good. although doesnt somebody have to have majority share :blink: otherwise who makes the decisions if Erasitexnis buy the remainng 40%? Also itll be good that PAO has new owners, but if the managers and existing crew stay around making decisions for the team and its operations, we wont be making any difference. Vardinogiannis shouldnt be making decisions on team affairs/signings IMO... He should have advisors lining them up and suggesting to him, and if he has had them all along, then they need to be fired and replaced beacuse theyre hopeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoglani Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Well it seems some didnt really understand what Tzigger stated. by keeping the 50% the Vardinogianni family will be some sort of financial safety pole for the team in case some of the new buyers come out to be Psomiadides like. He wont be automaticaly the one who decides. From what i understand neither the rest of the shareholds will be the ones who decide about transfers and so on. Those shareholders along with Vardinogianis family will create teamcouncil which will be probably maned by former great PAO players and maybe some of the shareholders. Those will practicaly lead the team. Something like FC Bayern Munich if you like where there is a management which is indepentand from the owners. Later on if the law will allow PAO could even become an Stock corporation. I am very very optimistic since now Giannakopouloi will be part of the PAE aswell This will bring the fans back to the stadium and we all know how crazy these 2 bros are. BTW on sportdog i read that Cleytons transfer seems to be breaking according to overated price request from Larisa. Wierd though this information came directly after Vgenopoulos gets the chance to become part of PAE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 well i thiink its a smart move business wise by vardinogiannis... basically it says indirectly to PEK put your money where your mouth is or shut up bc i seriously doubt other than giannakopouloi + vgenopoulos there is anyone else who is gonna put up 80 mill euros for a 50% stake in pao.... remains to be seen if pek actually do buy in....which im pretty sure they would and should! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 This is GREAT news and we should be celebrating! I understand its still up in the air, but Tzigger seems to finally be caving in. Bravo to the thousands of Panathinaikos fans who took action! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Well it seems some didnt really understand what Tzigger stated. by keeping the 50% the Vardinogianni family will be some sort of financial safety pole for the team in case some of the new buyers come out to be Psomiadides like. He wont be automaticaly the one who decides. From what i understand neither the rest of the shareholds will be the ones who decide about transfers and so on. Those shareholders along with Vardinogianis family will create teamcouncil which will be probably maned by former great PAO players and maybe some of the shareholders. Those will practicaly lead the team. Something like FC Bayern Munich if you like where there is a management which is indepentand from the owners. Later on if the law will allow PAO could even become an Stock corporation. I am very very optimistic since now Giannakopouloi will be part of the PAE aswell This will bring the fans back to the stadium and we all know how crazy these 2 bros are. BTW on sportdog i read that Cleytons transfer seems to be breaking according to overated price request from Larisa. Wierd though this information came directly after Vgenopoulos gets the chance to become part of PAE management is never totally independent of owners....owners APPOINT the managers that make the transfers - is that what any half intelligent owner would do? I mean PAO is private organization, do we know for sure that Tzigger is "deciding" on trasnfers? (saying, cuz I dont know).....but yeah wouldnt it be great for the clubs playing affairs to be directed by someone who knows a thing about football? Im just hoping that we APPOINT some new managers....I understand Tzig keeping a share, whats most important is that he doesnt have full say in the team's management and affairs...because hes wrong, and wrong pretty much all the time. New owners will look to hire new managers is what Id be excited about. Im hoping PEK does it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisskiss Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 At least this means that PEK & Tzigger will sit at the same table and discuss things - which is what Vgenopoulos asked for in the 1st place. Hopefully they can put their minds together and come up with a model to elevate us where we belong. Personally, I think the Vardinogiannides are eyeing the new stadium and the business opportunities it offers them moreso than the financial gains from the team itself. If they can compromise with who's entitled to what and who'll be responsible for the team affairs, we may get a decent outcome. The ball is in PEK's court and if they fork out the 80 mil, then the V family has to be accepting of their ideas - we have some light at the end of the tunnel but for now lets wait 20 days until the fineprint details are released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 I don't think PEK has anything to do with the new status. PEK is a club of people who say they care for Panathinaikos, and have lobied on behalf of (secret) people who wanted to buy shares of the PAE. That's all they really ever wanted and now they got it. What tzigger announced to day does not leave room for "clubs of concerned fans" to be part of the team unless they show some "green". I don't know enough about the move, and he said he will give details in about 20 days, but in general looks like a win-win situation. First it will increase the shares by 80 million. If that's 50%, then the Vardinogianides value their part at another 80 million. He said that the new funds will be allocated entrirely to football operations. Even if we assume Panathinaikos liabilities are 50 million per year (I am just guessing here), this would leave about 30 million extra for transfers :o Are you kidding me? If this works as I think it could, it would be a giant leap for the club. Second, Tzigger remains as a security blanket. If the plan does not work, we are back to were we were, which is not perfect, but not terribly bad either. Third, all the noise makers get to show their faces. Anyone who wants a piece of the pie, they just have to buy it. Let's see who they are, and who puts their money where their mouth is. Fourth, the fans might start feeling better about the team. Honestly, I never cared for Tzigger and his abilities to led anything, but all of a sudden he looks like he woke up from a deep sleep with a pretty good idea. Let's see what develops in the next few weeks and we'll be able to judge one way or another. Besides this major decision, I hope they go ahead with major re-organization of the front office to support the team who sweats on the pitch better, and to give them the little extra they need to excel and bring home some silverware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 http://www.sportdog.gr/new/article.aspx?id=62989 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenTitus Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Drakos, just a note for the record: not that it matters all that much at this point, but Vgenopoulos is a lawyer. Simple as that, a banking lawyer who worked a compromising deal between a bank and several ship owners and found himself with some powerful friends and everybody's trust. He is considered sound and tremendously able but he remains a manager of other people's money who made a lot of money himself. I understand that some people get too excited over Panathikaires who promise glory and power but we can't overlook the facts. So, if he wqants in fine, but I would certainly prefer someone like Latsis or Pateras - people with real assets and a long tradition in business, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBoy13 Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 eki against peseiro: http://www.supersport.gr/soccer/anational/....asp?aid=148741 im with eki on this one... peseiro is sooooo idiot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 i agree...it isnt right to speak to your coach like this, but peseiro has consistantly proven that he is incapable of leading this team...eki is right to be pissed, he was in great form last match and then he isnt in the starting 11 for this important game? peseiro has shown he cannot handle the coaching job here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBoy13 Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 i agree...it isnt right to speak to your coach like this, but peseiro has consistantly proven that he is incapable of leading this team...eki is right to be pissed, he was in great form last match and then he isnt in the starting 11 for this important game? peseiro has shown he cannot handle the coaching job here... plus we dont know if he always ekis fault that fights with peseiro... ego edo i cant stand peseiro.. not even to watch him on tv.. i want to slap him so bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 but Vgenopoulos is a lawyer. :huh: i thought hes vice chairman and founder of Marfin Bank....... Thats huge managerial experience man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 eki against peseiro: http://www.supersport.gr/soccer/anational/....asp?aid=148741 im with eki on this one... peseiro is sooooo idiot... Pesiro doesnt reward good performances, he doesnt give fair chances, and doesnt punish bad ones...When Mantzios played well, he never sees the field again.....Ninis plays well, make sure to not play him EVER again...Eki is just as frustrated as the fans, and at least hes not afraid to speak up.... Swearing and threatening to not play wont help us though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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