Brklyngrk

Do that also mean we lose the non-direct CL spot (the one PAO had) as well, replaced with an EL spot?

0-4 Final

Whether we like it or not, there is no subjectivity in regards to rankings. It is a calculated system based on points accumulated against opponents over a four year period (I believe its four years) weighted slightly more to the current period. Every team is in the same boat.

Anything can happen, the U21 OLY team just beat Bayern in the U21 Youth CL....

Wasn't crazy about him but he has produced some results. We do need a no nonsense coach. see what happens....

Nobody wants mass migration into their country as most countries do not have the resources to help them. From a cultural perspective, it changes a dynamic/composition of what that nation's culture is especially when assimilation does not occur. Having said that, Syria took many Greek refugees when they were fleeing Turkey (I guess history is cyclical). I am not saying we should accept every migrant, what I am saying is that we should be hospitable and helpful as much as we can. That doesn't mean granting everyone asylum. What that means is treating them like humans. If there is a boat that capsizes, we rescue them. If there are starving on our streets, we feed them (as much as we can). If we are truly proud of our culture, than we know we have an obligation (first as Christians than as Greeks) to help those who are of need. As a parent, I can't imagine anyone can looking at that image of that toddler on the beach and not feeling disgusted with what is going on. While the parents may have been at fault, that doesn't change that a child lost his life before he even understood what life was.

Didn't Inter win the Champions league a few years back with only one Italian on the team? Everyone in Italy was celebrating just the same...We would all prefer that the majority of the players be nationals on our teams but talent is talent and if that talent is better, than they deserve the spot. All things being equal, then obviously pick the domestic players. The key is not the 1st teams but the youth development. If you develop youth, then you wont need to get foreign help as the talent will be infront of you. You mention England but Spain/Germany import high quality players and they seem to have plenty of Spaniards/Germans coming up the ranks!!!

Gilberto Silva a few years back was the captain of Brazil when he came to PAO.

He will play in the Europa League.... http://www.sport24.gr/football/omades/Paok/me-mpermpatof-sto-europa-league.3642656.html

The truth is, in order for the SL to get the attention of Europe, it needs to develop talent and be able to showcase that talent in Europe. The further a club goes in Europe, it is understood that they must have talent. Once the major clubs start buying that talent and it translates well in their league, then the SL will be taken more seriously. In the last few years, OLY has been the only club that has done this with some degree of success (getting fees excess of $10 million). The other SL clubs have not gotten anything close. I am a PAO fan, have been every since I was a little kid bc of my dad, however, what's good for the SL is exposure in Europe and if that happens to be because OLY goes far in the CL, than be it. Remember, if OLY does well, than interest in the SL will also increase. Same thing goes for any of the clubs in the EL. A rising tide raises all ships.

The road from Athens to Kalamata cut the commute significantly, it pretty much goes directly to Kalamata where in the past in would go to Tripoli. I did notice a lot of Dutch/Scandinavian types more in Kalamata then I can ever remember seeing there. For the most part though, Kalamata was mostly filled with Greek speaking people (tourists/locals). On the Islands, I noticed so many Italians, way more than in years past but the Germans were definitely missing....

Came back from Greece this weekend (was there for a month) and made a few observations: 1. Went to three islands and they were all packed! We tried to rent a car and they were telling us that they were all sold out. The only difference between this year and years past was that majority of the tourists were foreign, predominantly Italian. There were very few Greek tourists. 2. Went to Kalamata were my family is from, and it was packed as well. Though for the first time being there, I actually heard foreign tourists. In the past, it was 100% Greek and Greek-Americans/Australians. 3. In speaking to everyone there, from family members to cab drivers, for the most part, they blamed the govn't for the mess Greece is in and for the handling of the negotiations. Most of the hotel owners were upset that the negotiations started as the beginning of the season hurting their early bookings but for the most part, they were able to recover. 4. The locals still went out and tried to enjoy themselves. They did mention that they did cut down on some of their spending but this did not prevent them from going out though their vacations were cut from years past and if they did go away, usually it was in close proximity to where they lived. These are just my observations and I did go at the peak of tourist season so it can be just my experience.

The thing is that privatization will help the country. Take the Helliniko project, even if the govnt gets nothing for the property and signs a 100 year lease, they come out ahead. How? 1. This is an asset they no longer have to put tax payer money in to maintain (I know, they probably havnt but lets assume its nominal). 2. Jobs will be created in the development of the property. This will lead to people being able to spend money, the government will get taxes on the income generated by the employees plus the VAT on the increased spending. 3. Taxes on the income generated by the Hotels. 4. At the very least, it will increase the value of the property and all of the surrounding areas. So you take a non-performing asset (which in essence is what that piece of land is) and turn into a revenue generating asset even if the government doesn't directly get a cut of the profits.

If you do not vote for the deal, than what do you do? They will be even greater unemployment, pensions will be reduced further all the while prices will go up (remember we are an import the majority of our goods). Also remember that Greece needs to print new currency which would take quite a while. There is no good answer. Regarding privatization, if done correctly, it does benefit a society. Private companies are more likely to run projects more efficiently, create jobs and add to the overall GDP of a country. Greece benefits from the increase of tax revenue on both the development of the project and the people employed. If the Elleniko airport ever gets developed, it is projected that the project alone will add millions annually in tax revenue. There will be jobs in construction, restaurants, hotels, etc...Some of these jobs will be permanent which only helps the economy. The value of the entire land goes up including its surroundings.The other side to that, the airport sits idle, no jobs, no tax revenue.....

It's crazy, 2 weeks ago, he held a referendum bc the terms were too cruel. After his referendum, destroyed the economy further, he accepted a much harsher proposal. If there is any saving grace, Greece will finally put in reforms necessary to attract outside investment and make the private sector that much more competitive.

Sometimes you need to hit rock bottom (hopefully we have) to fully understand the implications of what needs to happen and why. Some how, he has galvanized all of his opposition (at the expense of his own party) in giving him 100% support on getting a deal, unfathomable even a few weeks ago.....Because of what has happened, I see the reforms being implemented this time.

Apparently because there was such an outflow of cash, mostly due to the referendum and the inability to get a deal, Greek banks will need about 10 to 14 billion euros. The entire financial sector will probably need to be restructured with some of the major banks needing to be completely recapitalized!

Is the Ukrainian team supposed to be really good? I saw a twitter posting by some Ukrainian football site that this was an embarrassing result for them....

Apparently the new finance minister is doing well....Minister Tsakalotos is a breath of fresh air,? Malta Finance Minister Edward Scicluna said in an interview. ?The language has definitely changed, and from what we heard from him and shown through his presentation, he strongly agrees with the Eurogroup that Greece needs a major overhaul.? Finland?s Finance Minister Alexander Stubb, one of the most trenchant critics of the Greek government, said the Oxford-educated economist Tsakalotos ?made a good presentation? even as he was pressed for more concrete proposals. Analysts say Varoufakis?s removal may raise the chances of a new deal for Greece, averting broad default and keeping the nation in the euro region, at least for now

The only way I see Greece getting a haircut on the debt is if it agrees to some sort of milestone agreement. Basically, in three months, if Greece has implemented X, Greece gets to keep the interest payments from an escrow account. In 6 months, if Greece's reforms are still being met, maturities get pushed back....

It's not about being for sale, it's about being serious in these negotiations. If it is true that Greece is unprepared, what better way to anger your peers by not being ready. Remember, Tsipras said that the banks would originally be open on Tuesday.

Kathimerini's Brussels correspondent @Elbarbie: Acc to info:Greeks came without proposals.Tomorrow will submit new request and proposals.

I think the referendum answered one question, that the people are angry at austerity. They want the euro however they cannot handle the bad policies that have been stuffed down their throat. It showed the EU that if this is issue is not addressed, it can have a social revolution across Europe. The Portuguese socialist party, who is similar to SYRIZA and running for elections in three months, echoed Tsipras call for end of the austerity and ironically is looking at Greece. Many of these southern European countries are looking at Greece as a test case. Spain just said that we will look at debt reduction for Greece, France said the same thing. Italy stated that they want growth options in any package. Not sure what any of this will mean if the banks cannot open in a few days but everyone is aware that something has to be done. Hopefully, Tsipras can present to the EU a comprehensive, robust, detailed package that includes everything he wants along with some cuts. Something the economists can agree makes sense and works.

I did not want SYRIZA, still do not care for Tsipras but the people have spoken. There is anger and rightfully so. The majority of the no came from out of work youth you have not been able to find a job for a long time. I met some young kid the other day who came here from Greece, he must have been 27. He told me that he and his friends had just obtained their masters degrees and not one of them could find jobs. They were just sitting there and after 6 months, he came to the US to get a job as a waiter. How can that be acceptable? Our best and brightest leaving because of lack of job prospects. To say that he was lazy would be unfounded. And then you have the EU who is just being punitive. My son, who is 5 asked me why are people waiting on lines at the banks in Greece. I told him in simple terms that the ECB cut off funding (the other EU countries). His response, that is messed up, why would they do that to Greece. That is not a nice thing to do. A 5 year old realizing what many of us adults do not. I know we live in a world were economics and finance are king, but we also have a social responsibility to our fellow man. Last week, I would have voted Yes. Today, I am not sure but I do not blame the Greek people for voting No.

The biggest issue that most of Europe has with Tsipras is that they cannot get a straight answer. He flip flops all the time. He is telling the public to vote NO on the agreement while having told the EU he accepts it (of course it was a few days to late). I have always been taught that your word is similar to currency. If you want it to be worth anything, you have to stand by it. He has lost all credibility with the EU. We want a leader that can walk into a room and be able to articulate our arguments with sound, insightful solutions. Someone that is respected and considered an equal, not an outcast.