athinaios

No matter what happens, this is disgusting. It's unfair to the people/fans to see this kind of display. If we get lucky and sore one more, there's got to be some serious thinking about this team.

Ridiculous, simply ridiculous. Kabala missed an easy one. This PAO would be lucky to content for the title until xmas... Oh, sorry, I forgot, we got Essien to help us content until at least next Feb. :/

Sure, this is where the money is.... plus not winning points in Europe, PAO will be one of the worst/weaker teams

None of the new players has helped......... so did we get them for the domestic league only? :/

We have too many players that have no basic knowledge of handling the ball. They can be powerful and in good condition (like Karelis) but they are not smart nor can own the ball. :( s%$#!. they scored..... We are really bad not to by up by 3 already against this team....

We have too many players that have no basic knowledge of handling the ball. They can be powerful and in good condition (like Karelis) but they are not smart nor can own the ball. :( I think we can scrape by this Karbala crappy side... but it shows how ..not good we are.

It seems that Tsipras miscalculated with Varoufakis, who was an "expert" of game/risk theory and wanted to push the Grexit card much more seriously than Tsipras wanted. Tsipras recently said he should have had Euclid as finance minister from the beginning. True Tsipras had a bad hand, and most poker players lose such. But, he was unprepared, he gambled badly and he demanded to be at the poker table by forcing the country into elections. "Would Samaras have done better?" Probably, not because he somehow is more skillful, but because of the terms of the deal were slightly better, plus--let's not forget this---precious time wouldn't have been wasted. Did that matter? Well, just the damage from capital controls, losing economic productivity and income, and billions of euros left the country, was a price Greece couldn't afford to pay, but it did because of Tsipras's tactics. However, In order to better understand a situation, we have to examine it from different perspectives, not only what Greece wants/needs/deserves/thinks. How did the euros see this conflict? I've written lots here on this, so I won't repeat myself. But, I think Greece would have reacted like the euros (even worse) if this issue were about Fyrom, Albania, or Turkey. ;) (Am I wrong?) Whatever view you have of the EU many Europeans see Greece as the petulent, irresponsible, lazy member who has lied and cheated into the club. Justified view?...What do you think? ...Oh, I know, the poor Greeks who everybody is jealous of and wants to destroy for centuries..... (whatever). You're probably right that Tsipras didn't expect this harsh treatment.... which makes him more amateurish in my view. Look what happens in this forum as an example. The moment personal insults are thrown, no rational conversation can take place. So, if you call your negotiating partners (at the table you chose to go to) "thieves", "gang members" "nazzis", etc, etc... What do you think they'll do when you have a weak hand and in essense you're begging for a good deal??!!!

it seems that new elections are coming very soon. It was obvious that Tsipras couldn't govern when his coalition is divided and legislation was approved by a majority not by his own party/coalition but by/with others. Tsipras was not ready for PM, nor did he calculate correctly. He got a worse deal than if the previous gov were in place. He forced the country into elections while he didn't have to.... because these tough measures would have been taken by Samaras, so Tsipras could have come in with the claim, "we'll try to do the best we can but the previous gov has tied our hands"..... so, he could have proceeded with getting rid of the old guard, the corruption, etc. Of course, this assumes that Syriza is for that....

Greek football has been relegated to a lower division and will probably sink further. The owners and the idiots who were in charge killed it. Here are some additional factors that don't bode well for Greek football. the money, talent gap between the big and lesser euro clubs is getting wider; only a handful of teams are true competitors for trophies; money flows to successful teams, because it's hard to invest in a mediocre/bad club in a shitty domestic league the Greek league collectively didn't realize that the generations born after 1990s have many more opportunities to spend their time & money; in the past, almost every boy had an interest in footbal, but not anymore; so they've lost millions of fans. Fewer interested people, especially in a small county, the sport suffers. the low attendance is partly to the bad visuals: crappy fields, bad officiating, and play; the other is the violence. I wouldn't take my little kids to a soccer game in Greece (for most games), because it's not safe; many people are disgusted by what has been going on. Sports in advanced countries are for some crazy fans who have no life but live to be a fan of a team (minority), but for the most part (majority) sports are for entertainment, often for all ages. When the latter withdraw the remaining pool is more toxic because the hooligans seem to treat this as their domain. corruption. If you believe (as it is) the game is fixed or unfair it chews down your interest and participation (and your spending) the general situation with the Greek economy drastically reduces the flow of money into soccer there. Do you think any of these conditions will change any time soon?

But, let me ask you. From someone who likes watching football/soccer, which is more entertaining? MLS or Greek league? I don't follow MLS regularly, since I don't have a favorite team, but I've seen many games on tv and in the stadium, so I can compare them to the Greek games..... Well, aside from having an interest in the outcome of my chosen club (PAO), most of the Greek games are truly unwatchable. Think that a couple decades ago, soccer was not even mentioned during local sports news, the US national team was bad, etc. Now, I do watch the national teams (men, women) and it's really entertaining. Even though I supported (still do) the Greek national team, most of the games I've seen (even in the glory days) were pretty bad. The same it can be said when PAO won the title in 2008 under Schum. They played some 5-6 great games, but the rest were horrible. They couldn't string 3 passes together. It was luck and some brilliant moments by individual players (like Olizadebe) that scored pivotal goals at crucial moments.

I agree with you, they should scrap the playoffs. Even though PAO has benefitted from this in the past. This is not basketball. Actually it has harmed the Greek teams, because apparently they are not 100% ready when they play euro teams for all sorts of qualifications. All the big teams expect preferential treatment, but it was Oly that managed to establish dominance behind the scenes--a thing I'll never forgive Tzigger for. He was a very rich but totally incompetent leader of a team.

I have and will be deleting offending posts with no warnings. Dialogue implies civility, otherwise it's an idiot's screaming match--the kind that we don't want here. I'm all for freedom of expression, but there is a way of doing. Because some don't really understand what this means, let me put it in simple terms: does my post contribute to making this forum a pleasant place to hang out? [pleasant for the community, not for the provocateur] is it appropriate for the topic and the place? does it respect the other members? we don't have to agree, but we can respectfully disagree.

When PAO was falling like a rock, with huge deficits, and club & fan morale at its lowest, nobody, nobody of financial means stepped forward to save the club. None of the big fat asses who claim to be fanatic PAO fans. This is the fact. Alafouzos saved the club. He did tons of mistakes but you have to judge him from where the club was to where it is now. Lots of mistakes he made, but you would make similar or worse mistakes if you had taken over, especially with so low budgets, deficits, and when the club owed millions $ to past players. You can fault him for not spending more money. I don't know if he has it. But, in my mind he truly saved the club when no one else wanted to touch PAO with a 10 yard pole. And, it's much harder to be successful when the budget is so low. Has he stopped any big fat cat from investing in the club as Tzigger did? Tzigger was the worst, by far, owner of PAO given his money. The worst drought of titles ever under his tenure. He alienated everyone, and he left the club vulnerable and a second class member of the "super" league. Also, could you please explain to me why Greeks teams are so special? (aside from us being hardcore fans of our favorite club). Give me something that the other teams don't have.... Don't you think money, good management/ownership, and domestic league all play a role? Can you identify what Greek teams have that others don't so they can be more successful? OK, I'll give you one: crazy fans. Good asset. But even though the Panathes overwhelmed the Belgians in the stands (even in Belgium), the bottom line was our team lost 3-0. PS>Nowadays a Greek team can have 40-80% foreign players. I noticed in the last couple seasons, especially gavroi would field 10 or 11 non-Greek players.

One of the better chances we had to get near the CL. But the reality is there's not enough $$ to compete with the wealthier clubs in Europe. The top elite, 6-8 clubs, then there's the second tier of maybe another half a dozen, and the rest are the ..extras to fill the movie scene. The money is astronomical nowadays and the gap is getting bigger. Hard to compete with others when you don't have the money plus a crappy domestic league. In many ways, if your competition gets better you look weaker. Too bad that PAO didn't beat Brugge, but the Belgians although didn't show anything special have a much higher budget, better overall squad. I'll be happy if PAO becomes a serious club in the Europa league and starts kicking ass domestically.

Grim Reaper.... so appropriate for the gavros forum! :D Welcome and enjoy reaping! :rolleyes:

I had to work so I missed the game. We kinda knew this team wasn't ready for the CL. It's the reality given the finances. Brugge has 3-5 times the budget we have. Now it's absolutely essential we beat the next euro team to qualify for the Europa. The team cannot afford to go home this early. Otherwise, I can see selling Karelis, even Berg, and set the sights for a decent show in the domestic league only. Damn it. I hoped we could advance against Brugge so at least we had the Europa secured. :(

For the investment PAO has made, they need to advance! They didn't sell Berg and Karelis while they spent $$ for transfers, so they must have a decent run in euro competition this season. As for tomorrow's game, I still favor Brugge. I mean of course I want PAO to advance, but I fear they'll concede at least 1 goal so Brugge has the advantage. PAO has to score at least 1 over in Belgium. Hope PAO doesn't repeat the pattern of wasting the first half.

Tsipras has a long history (since his student years) of Marxist ideology. Of course he could be pretending all along, but it probably means something to be lecturing on, arguing for, advocating Marist ideology. Now, what does this mean? Well, Marxism is like xtianity. [by the way, the notion of communism was articulated by Plato, and the early xtians were communists]. It can mean many different things. Some Marxists are on the left of social democrats. They operate withing a liberal democracy whose economic system is evolved capitalism. They don't advocate a violent transition to a communist state, like Leninists would. There are no advanced communist countries today to align a smaller country like Greece with. Realistically, Tsipras realized exiting the eurozone would mean even worse conditions for Greece than the current draconian measures are creating. [China is not a communist country in practice; plus you wouldn't want to practice what China has in the last 20 years] Please stop with Greek history as an argument why Greece is great today and why the country is important today. If you rely on the distant past too much it means that you have nothing left to talk & do today.

Well, as many times in the past, PAO can concede an early goal. If this happens, it's PAO that will have to risk and it'll be a disaster as the team isn't ready yet, especially against a better put-together team like Brugge. I saw too many amateurish mistakes yesterday, including the tough tackle by Sanchez (no way you do that in the midfield when there's not big threat; did he apologize yet?). Brugge will take advantage of our mental lapses in Belgium next week.

But, why did our team waste most of first half? This is a very worrisome pattern continuing for far too long. We dropped too many points last season becasue they wasted one half. It's not easy to always have to dig themselves out of a hole. Are the coach & players not prepared for their opponent? Haven't done their homework?

Again, certain players should never start or play many minutes on this team. If they play with no mental errors or silly mistakes, PAO can do very well this season.

Great win. Congrats to PAO!

Given the circumstances, we should hold on to the 2-1. It should have been 3-1. In the next game, PAO will be better and it'd be great to have a win in the pocket.

Dubya said this? :lol: :lol:

This was the best draw we could have gotten, but we're still the underdogs here. There's a tremendous pressure on our team & coach to advance to next round. I don't know how conservative Anastasiou will be. We have several new players and they seem to give up too many goals, most due to mental lapses. Pao needs this more than anyone. Not only for the obvious psychological boost, but for bare financial reasons. Anyway, I hope we do well, and I would take A's score, 3-1 :D