athinaios

Corruption (as the thread's title) isn't the only problem. Incompetence is the other. The sport (soccer) has been destroyed in Greece and too many people only care how to get revenge against their opponents of all sorts. Greek police and those who are in change of public safety are criminally incompetent. 99% of the resident citizens have their lives and their properties damaged because of sports violence. Here are a few short videos of someone discussing the way the police was used. Incredible. http://www.leoforos.gr/football/story/89580/den-mporei-na-timorithei-o-panathinaikos-yparxei-egklimatiki-ameleia-vids

This kind of violence hurts the teams, the particular sport, and the fans. So, let's see, PAO will now have to pay $100,000 to fix Leoforos, ontop of whatever fines from the league, possible points deductions, etc. Berg and others are disgusted by this and now want to leave. I wouldn't be surprised if they do so in January. I was hanging out with a couple friends on Saturday to watch the Real-Barca game, but I was sneaking peeks into the PAO-Oly game situation. It was embarrassing. Outsiders see the situation as we would see it if such events were happening in a Third World country, dismissing the idiocy of the people involved as primitive and uncivilized. Well, are they right? :huh:

Oh, yeah, I forgot. Fortune cookies are the best :blink:

It's actually very easy. I'd call some of the hard core fans (those who are ready to do ..jihad for their team) and ask them to wear Arsenal colors and then attack & destroy everything and everyone in sight..... :lol: :lol: :la:

What is the ancestors' influence? Genetic? Cultural? Myths? In other words, are we bound to do or be like our ancestors? Culture, which includes indoctrination of people, makes them who they are. Of course, there are exceptions that break off the mold, but most people follow and aren't interested in the facts if the facts (and history) make them uncomfortable.

My tarot card/plam reader is more accurate. And, who can forget Nostradamus? He predicted everything, everything I tell you. tsk :1eye: Anyway, today, both countries are downplaying the incident. Turkey apologized. Russia said no retaliation other than tell Russians not to visit Turkey.

Bananas, in the US and many other countries the perpetrators are dealt directly. They're arrested, charged, and processed. They face fines and ban from the game. Soon, people get the message that they can't do whatever they want even if they're frustrated for whatever reason. In result is that 99% of the rest of the fans enjoy the game, plus there's less damage to private and public property. But, I agree with your observations. However, if they really wanted to solve this ridiculous problem there are ways...

PAO will be called to the sports judge on Wed Nov 25th to explain or plea its case after the police and ref reports are now submitted to the league. I've been thinking, why should my team (say I'm the owner of a team) should be punished because some fans, even if they wear my team's colors, breake the law? I'm not in control of them. I take reasonable precautions inside the sports venue, but why should I responsible for law & order outside? It's the job of the police or whomever. Now, if I was the owner, I'd install metal detectors (cheaper than the fines and the bans and the damages to the facilities), and screen every bag, even pat down everyone who enters. Further, I'd ban those convicted of any violence or unsportsmanlike behavior. Nowadays, with technology all this is possible. I'd make sure the game is played in a civilized atmosphere and would allow families with kids to attend a safe event. I would admit supporters of the opposing team, though initially I'd seperate those who wear colors. *** I understand that for some people their identity, their purpose is a sports team, but they have to understand they will not be allowed to destroy my team. They would not allow to destroy the experience for the vast majority of the fans. Those who get off with violence, destruction, and mayhem, will not have a place in the stadium. They can go to a bar or wherever to fight with other idiots. It's amazing to me that after serious violent events just a handful of people get arrested. I wonder how many are repeat offenders. This has to stop. Unless a team is knowingly allowing hooligans to run the show, no club should be punished for the bad behavior that should have been controlled by the monopoly of legitimate force a society has. Oh, and as the gov, I'd ban the organized fan clubs if there's evidence they've turned into a base for hooliganism. I'd bet that most of those members really care about their club (mafia style) and not the team, because it's rather evident, the "organized" fans mostly hurt the team they supposed to support. ***This is analogous to this forum. The few who thrive on mayhem and destructive behavior aren't allowed to destroy our experience here. I think 95% of our regular members and posters here are great. I thank you for helping making this forum a nice place to hang out and talk. Cheers. :tup:

Sorry, but this is the 21st century guys... Do you still believe in prophecies? That guy might have led a saintly life but no one can predict the future. Well, I actually take this back.... I predict that I'll have Chinese food for dinner! :lol: Anyway, back to the topic... I'm not sure Turkey shot down a Russian warplane by orders of the gov. The violation isn't a serious one to warrant such an action. Turkey would be risking too much in my opinion without a clear benefit. Of course, the wild card could be Erdogan who's a magalomaniac like Putin.

Which team could have played Bayern and done well tonight? Unfortunately, the gap between the very rich teams (like Arsenal) and the rest of is getting wider. A few million euros difference in the budget probably isn't the determining factor, but the gap is in the many tens of millions. The half a dozen big teams can spend for 1 player as another team spends for an entire roster. Even in Greece it's evident, when, for example, Indeye costs more than the budget of entire teams. Greece is a small market with weak teams. And, the way the whole situation is no one would invest. Don't be surprised in Berg leaves in January. Greece missed a golden opportunity to turn things around and become like Portugal, another small country like Greece, but with a few teams that go far in Euro play. The opportunity was in 2004 and the immediate years after that. But, a corrupt, unfair system destroyed soccer in the country.

Look, such games are expected, that's why you take care of the other games, as Oly has done so far. It'll come down to the game at Karaiskaki, which actually it's a great thing. Let the best team go forward. But, don't expect Arsenal to be the same team you beat in the first leg. Unfortunately, the gap between the very rich teams (like Arsenal) and the rest of is getting wider. A few million euros difference in the budget probably isn't the determining factor, but the gap is in the many tens of millions. The half a dozen big teams can spend for 1 player as another team spends for an entire roster. Even in Greece it's evident, when Indeye costs more than the budget of entire teams. As for your game against Arsenal, I don't know what the best strategy would be. Try to not lose or try to score at least once? Tonight, I thought your defense didn't do well, not because of the 4 but too many mistakes. If this is repeated, Arsenal will plenty of chances to score. I think you should demonstrate power; they must respect you (and fear you) since you beat them at their home. If you appear weak, they'll step all over you.

So, if Greece shot down a Turkey airplane when it enters Greek airspace would be OK? Just saying, 'cause many wrote in these forum in the past that's exactly what Greece should have done. This can play out in many ways. Turkey hasn't exactly been going along with the West in the Middle East, especially against ISIL. What Turkey has had as an advantage since WW1 is its border with Russia, so a long as Russia is considered a western foe, Turkey's role & location is important to the west.

what? I thought I checked "permanently" for content, etc. hmm :la:

Life was very cheap for most of human history (and, sadly, still is in some parts & cultures). Everybody, and I mean everybody was a barbarian. Of course, the new countries (after 17th c) chose to hide the attrocities of their ancestors and highlight the ..genocides of others. If I were the king of the Balkans and the greater area, I'd have everybody do a DNA check, so they could see how everybody is related going back only a few centuries.

I think what's going on is all sides are playing their cards. Interestingly, they haven't announced what would happen as far as penalties, etc. against PAO. The club is negotiating and threatening to bring its fans out in protest. This can get out of control, so I guess they're all trying to figure out what to do next. I'm also guessing that Alafouzos cancelled this because he was offered something by Kontonis. We'll see. I hope this is a turning point for Greek football. It's an opportunity for the other clubs who have been discriminated against to raise their voices. This league is nothing "super" or even legitimate.

Well, this "super league" :lol: has to go. If several teams leave and create their own, they could do that but what are the legal ways of doing so, and getting recognized by UEFA so there's participation into euro games. The Cypriot league won't accept Greek teams. Many decades ago, the top Cypriot team would play in the Greek league and usually didn't do well.

Well, I'd be happy as they are. They didn't have to risk injuries, didn't have to play in a harsh environment, and most importantly they'll get extra rest before their euro match. They should thank the cannibals who created this....

Doxa, you do the same here in this forum. We do not condone this, no matter which fans do it. OK? I'm going to say this to you in public as well: I've been sensoring/deleting your provocative language. Next offense, and you'll be tosed out. You may get off with incidiary language, but this will stop now. What we witnessed today (and sadly too many times in the past) at Leforos is a disgrace to Greece, its history, and its (most) people. This is a sport and not tribal warfare. This forum will not deteriorate into an arena for immature persons to lay waste. Most of us come here to have fun, exchange views and hang out among friends who may support other teams and have different views on all sorts of subjects but we do it in a civilized and mature way. And, for this, I'm thankful to all of you who make this hang out time a positive experience.

Well, honestly, I don't monitor all the posts there, so I'm not really the PAO mod in reality. I actually spend more time elsewhere doing stuff, so there could be a need for another PAO mod.

There's a problem mixing people with different cultures, especially if there's a critical mass of new immigrants who concentrate in ghettos. In there, religious militancy and cultural mores find fertile ground. Europe has a problem with low birth rates but admitting large numbers of people who not only have different cultures but also are strong opponents of western way of life is a bigger problem in my opinion. The video above is highly edited for maximum effect. I don't know what number of refugees or econominc migrants behave like those animals in the video, but increasingly more Europeans are developing a negative view of such migration. Interestingly, those who perpetrated the Paris attacks (last week and earlier this year at Charlie Hedbo) are actually work against the ...greater plan of islamization of Europe. The better trick would have been to peacefully fill Europe with Muslims and then.... It's clear now that Europe will react. President Hollande is asking for constitutional revisions and other legal measures in an effort to control the migration and throw out the undesirables. https://www.facebook.com/IrelandFirst2015/videos/643403292466166/?fref=nf

Another testimony from a ref, who says Oly has had the benefit of most refs in Greece. http://www.onsports.gr/Podosfairo/Super-League/item/507947-Tsiniaris-Ehoyn-asylia-oi-paiktes-toy-Olympiakoy Yes, gavroi have better players, but they get tens of millions of euros from the CL every year, and in order to do that, they had to be Greek champions. The greatest complaint I have, regarding our club, is that Tzigger did nothing to protect the club. A man of his economic power let our team unprotected. Also, with Pateras and the rest of his cohorts who helped the club for a couple years and then abandoned it, because their little dicks got in their way of their brains. Football as a brand has been damaged in Greece, but I wonder why don't the other teams (most of them) start another league without gavroi.

I just re-read the first couple of pages in this thread... Oh, the excitement and celebrations.... Back then, I said "Although it's nice to bring such players to Greece, that brings excitement to the fans, I'm old enough to know that these moves are hit-or-miss. Most of these transfers turned bad. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited about the club trying to raise the level and be more competitive. Yet, I want to see how big name players apply themselves and what contributions bring to the team, instead of cashing in their fame and collect $$ while they're semi-retired." Let's not forget that whoever was in charge of the planning (Anastasiou has to have part of the blame), should be fired. The idea was that this team would be playing in Europe this season! We needed ready players to qualify. Instead it was a total failure and none of the transfers helped. It's incompetence, to say the least, that you get a player like Essien to help you at the end of October (if that)!!! Disgusting.

At the risk of sounding too practical or too old, I'd say a good education & a degree is more realistic and helpful in your life. Very, very few lads make it to pro teams. Here in the US, there's an abundance of tallent (football and basketball) but only the very lucky ones make it to the pros. And, it's not a matter of talent or personal drive. It's luck and the brutal fact that there's more supply of talent than positions. I'd say, research schools and see which ones have strong soccer programs/teams. They might give you a scholarship to play for them if you can prove you're good. Bulid up your resume. The scouts concentrate on those schools. Rarely a talent is discovered at a playground any more. These are old stories. The colleges that have good teams also have a good academic reputation and money for scholarships. Get a degree no matter what. Not only it's more realistic but education and a critical mind is something you have with you forever. Good luck!

Guys, I agree with what you all say. But, we would take such a win over any team like Arsenal. Heck, I'd be happy if we won the same way over Brugges or Gabala. I see dark days ahead for all Greek teams. With no good Euro presense, I can't see great players coming over, unless like Essien who maybe was thinking to come and retire. This is the result of a decade+ of criminally managing the league. The quality went down. I'll never forgive Tzigger who didn't fight the building of the corrupt league, especially given his $$$. And, most other teams would benefit if they destroyed the rotten system that was build to benefit Oly and through Oly its sattelite teams. I realized the decline many years ago. Yes, Greece won the Euro in 2004, but it was a bright moment that came with hard work and luck and a German coach who forced Greeks to do it his way. But, as with the Olympics, these two bright moments were wasted opportunities, ontop of wasted of billions of $$. I also thought that the mismanagement/corruption/bad quality of the sport would damage it perhaps irrepairably. Many fans were turned away in disgust. And, for safety too. It became unsafe to take children to the game. This is how many of us got hooked. The live, personal connection mattered. The lack of competition and the corruption turned away viewers too. The times had changed. Young people--the future supporters--had many other options for entertainment, including several other sports. The monopoly of football was breaking down. Now, few people attend. TV ratings are way down. The league hasn't found a sponsor this year, etc.... Awh, it's so depressing.... -_- <_<