athinaios

1789: your assertions include unproved allegations. You may disagree about policy, and decisions made by Obama but why do you rely on silly conspiracies to prove your point? Which, by the way, what is it? That Obama has been helping ISIL, explicitly and covertly? That Obama is a hidden communist? When exactly is he going to establish communism, next December? #4...are you sure about your claims? And, what ridiculous thing to say that Putin sought approval..... Yeah, like Saddam got approval by his parliament to invade Kuwait...

double wow.... You begin to sound like Trump.... What is exactly criminal (in a legal sense that would warrant imprisonment) in Hillary's past? Be specific, not you hate her policies, bad decisions, pant suits, laughter, whatever... She's no angel by far, but she and her husband are the most investigated political couple ever. Republicans in Congress spend $20+ mil investigating Benghazi and the emails. Same with the FBI, and the hounds of Faux News. Are all conspiring to let her get away? It's ludicrous, but that's what comes out of your observations... Obama was given a wrecked economy, which was losing 800,000 jobs a month. Here's a car, all smashed up, and once you get the key I start complaining at your ineptitude to get it running perfectly, without spending any money on repairs of course! For all the onerous Republican projections that Obama's policies would destroy the economy, the opposite has happened in spite of Republicans in Congress sabotaging everything. The debt has to be considered as a % of the economy. The world's money is flowing to the US, buying US T-bills and debt, often at record low interest rates, and, even negative interest! I wonder why anyone would buy such IOUs from a country they don't trust..... hmmmm By the way, you're also wrong about Detroit. It's was not destroyed by Obama. Bailed out GM is the world's #1 seller of cars. The auto industry (car makers and thousands of other attached businesses) was bailed out, and as with banks, the US treasury made money after bailout debt was repaid. It's was a strategic decision to keep alive the automobile industry alive. As for the banks, Bush initiated the bailout with no strings attached, Obama continued and tried to regulate Wall Street. Both parties have received money from WS and have strong ties to this sector. But, unlike Putin, Obama didn't imprison his political adversaries, his billionaire enemies, or closed news media and arrested reporters critical of him. Apparently, you don't understand how the US political system works if you keep asserting that Obama, or any president, has the unchecked powers Putin has. All the cases you offer in support of your argument prove exactly the opposite of your thesis. Of course the president has powers, but he can't raise or spend a penny without Congress. Your second paragraph has a cyclical argument that relies on bad logic and evidence. As for democracy, elections, etc. Let me repeat myself: dictators can be popular and may be elected by majorities. When the Roman republic died, elections kept taking place, but the citizens were electing dictators who only promised to protect the properties of citizens and provide law & order. Thomas Hobbes in his Leviathan (17th c.) argues that people have natural rights but in order to protect life and property willing give up all freedom to the benevolent dictator. Many societies have done precisely this. In Russia today, most people don't care about liberal freedoms, like free press, tolerance and diversity. After all, Russia has never known democracy or has been influenced by the Enlightenment. They care about nationalism, consumer goods, and strong authoritarian leadership. When Putin goes into Ukraine, takes, Crimea, meddles in the Middle East, he's got overwhelming popular support. When Obama, for example, meddles in Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, all hell breaks loose and there are a dozen factions including public opinion pulling in different directions. He wants to sign international treaties and the Senate objects. Let us not forget how this dictator (Obama) wants to shape the Supreme Court (under his authority under the US constitution) and he can't even get his nominee a hearing at the Senate. Have you heard about this?.... :la: [ps. don't click on this link]

wow, man, even those not familiar with US politics realize that the US suffers from too much of dispersal of power, hence the 3 branches of government (two of which, Congress and Presidency are controlled by two opposite parties). If you really think Putin and Obama operate with same impunity and control of their countries then there's nothing reasonable one can say to change your mind. I hope you haven't taken the magic potion of Faux News... Yes, there some Americans who believe Obama is the worst dictator, not born in the US, and who wants to take their guns away, help ISIL and the Muslim theocracies, while promoting radical socialism (maybe communism). Right?

There are several things here, so let's separate them. Greece has not been able to successfully and efficiently run their own affairs, including the economy since 1821. Entry into the EU was rushed, partly on fake numbers Greece gave the EU, partly to forge a union with a common currency (monetary policy) but with dozens of different national economic policies. The drachma was exchanged at much higher value than warranted too. Many Greeks felt rich almost overnight. Many Euros got tired of Greece's behavior, especially the newly elected Syriza's rhetoric and amateurish stance. It was punishment time. Since the 1980s, Greece thought it was smarter and could fool the EU. Payback was almost natural when the Greek state went bankrupt. The austerity package was badly planned and implemented. It has turned many Euros (for different reasons) against the EU. Extreme parties became stronger (not a good thing either). Greece became a lab animal on life support and with no recovery in sight Greece remains badly managed by her own leaders! Let's say I was rich enough to pay off all of Greece's debt. So no more crazy austerity or capital controls. Is anyone confident here or anywhere to assure me that this mess would not happen again?...

Serbia and Milosevic were cleared of directing or organizing the ethnic cleansing, but not so fast.... However, the president of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) did state that it was ""conclusively proved" that the Serbian leadership, and Milosevic in particular, "were fully aware ... that massacres were likely to occur, and in violation of international law, did nothing to prevent them. This is more damning since the Serbian government had influence with the Bosnian Serbs (Mladic, Karadzic, etc) By the way, dictators can be elected and have the support of the public, especially in times of crisis, and ultra-nationalism. Putin and Erdogan come to mind... Some people place a higher premium on supporting anything connected to their identity than the facts. Serbs=Xtian, Orthodox.. (v. Catholics, Muslisms), therefore Greeks and Serbs are brothers. Tsk.

How much is to rent one of those apartments overlooking the stadium? B) It might be cheaper than the season tickets...

Did you guys hear about lending the stadium to PAS for their euro game? PAO said offered to help PAS, and announced it, but when some fans objected management took back the offer. What do you think about it? Should a Greek team help another that's playing a Euro game?

So, an unstable Turkey will make Greece stronger. Huh! Who knew?...So, Greece will gain territory? Money? Influence? Maybe the US and NATO will have Greece as the base of operations instead of Turkey. That's what you want? [is Tsipras like Andreas? "

You say, "pushed us more".... I don't doubt your estimate, but do you know anyone who was thinking of voting Remain and then said, oh, this guy Obama pissed me off and now I'll vote Brexit... I just don't see it. The net result probably was no net effect. Now, I could see it if George W. Bush and Tony Blair said it... :lol: I'd agree the murder pushed a few people to vote Remain. But, think about it... why should such a thing do it? Any crazy person can do crazy things; it's not rational to change your vote based on such act. Whether remaining or leaving the EU should be determined by other factors, if voters weighted the facts carefully. Most people are compelled and vote by identity politics. It's the story they tell themselves about themselves and their tribe, and then act upon this story. It's mostly emotional and the facts don't get in the way. Britons, Americans, Greeks, etc all do it. The lack of factual information is stunning. "I'm not like that" I hear you're saying now. OK. I didn't say "all people" but most... Europeans have to figure out what Europe means and what being a European means. Likewise with sections withing a country. Integration happens when most people accept a narrative ("the story") and see themselves as belonging to a particular tribe.

And, I say, the Brexit vote was going to win by 8 points but Obama made it much closer than that!. Who's right, Farage or I?.... :cw: In my estimate what Obama said didn't make the slightest difference. Why would it? It's a European matter. In some sense the US could argue against a united Europe....

This was a very bad thing for Turkey as it allows Erdogan to be more dictatorial and imperial, which is not good for Greece. A lot of people died and more will because of this, dare I say, amateurish coup. I'm not supporting military coups by the way.... Thousands of judges, officials, real and imagined enemies of the current government are fired or arrested within hours of this coup. Those lists of "undesirables" (political enemies or critics of Erdogan) were made before the coup. The state institutions and others, also the news media, will further be controlled by the authoritarian ruler now. Democracy isn't always desirable or even understood by many peoples. Turkey and Russia are such examples. The authoritarian rulers enjoy popular support. This coup failed in part because Erdogan has the support of a large mass of Turks. Nowadays the social media make it possible to mobilize people. Controlling the traditional news media isn't enough. Another effect will be that Turkey can forget joining the EU for decades now.... What? Who wants to be in the EU? :la: :whistle:

It's over. A badly organized coup and a miserable failure. Even though I think Erdogan is a maniacal dictator and I wouldn't be upset if he was deposed, I don't think military coups are the way. But, not only the planning was bad, they miscalculated the reaction of the people and even within the armed forces. Frankly if there were elements who might have supported a coupe against Erdogan, they wouldn't risk their lives unless the coup would seem to be successful. If the leadership, especially the prez and pm and some other key power heads aren't arrested, usually there's no chance for a coup to succeed. Further, let's assume the challengers were honest in wanting to "restore democracy", did they realize that if they failed Erdogan would emerge even more of an brutal authoritarian? He now has an excuse for more retribution against his enemies, including those who had nothing to do with this coup.... Amateurs... I can hear some Greeks saying "the colonels" knew how to make a successful coup!

.Some of the passages I would like edited out are the following: Quran (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." Quran (3:28) - "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them..." Quran (9:23) - "O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers.'' Quran (3:10) - "(As for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against Allah, and these it is who are the fuel of the fire." ............... And, who are you to edit the word of God?..

Yes, people should have self-determination, and there's lots freedom in a state of nature as they say. (Except when there aren't good choices available...) But, then people discover that larger societies and cooperation come with benefits. Of course, the devil is in the details as they say, but Britain was getting a great deal out of its membership in the EU. I understand that not everybody benefits equally, but on the whole it's been a positive for GB. There was lots of misinformation about the Brexit. Those leaders who campaigned for it are now mumbling a different tune as to the huge benefits that Brits immediately (or long-term) would enjoy after the exit. One issue was immigration and free travel within the union, but illegal immigration wasn't GB's own problem; all the members had that. Also, GB wasn't a signatory of the Schengen Agreement (free, no passport travel among members). Plus, GB had own currency, etc. Many Brits didn't fully understand the details of what the EU membership entailed. I'm not saying they didn't have the right to say they want out, but I also think the vote was based on misinformation and on many levels of dissatisfaction with own economic status, against globalization, against the economic elites, immigration and fear of refugees, the struggling middle, lower classes, etc. As for important revisions, many constitutions require big majorities, on the theory that 50% +1 vote is a slim margin that can change from day to day. In the US, 2/3 Congress (both chambers: House-Senate) must vote 2/3 to amend the constitution, plus 3/4 of states needed............. This Brexit triggered lots of discussion about Greece. I know we had a long and heated discussion last year on the topic, but let me reiterate my view that Greece outside the EU would be far worse. The country has demonstrated incompetence at every turn, and when the going was good it was not because Greece was isolated and left to its own devices. Before you start cursing at me, just think of the systems and projects Greece has undertaken without foreign direction...... A few things come to my mind... tourism, the Olympics, the (gasp) Super League, elections, pollution, etc, etc.... I'm not in favor of foreign tutelage for Greece, because foreigners want to protect and advance their own interests. But, sometimes, irresponsible people need a good structure and supervision to recover. Greece needs to be more European to solve its problems. The terms are very harsh now, I think excessive, but if Greece is to change for the better, it's through the EU. Hopefully, there will be a "haircut" of the debt but Greece by-and-large is still steeped in corruption and inefficiency while blaming others for its mismanagement. On a side note, there are lots of media talking about ..20 years since the death of Andreas. Well, he was in a unique position to do great things for his country but did great harm by setting Greece on a disastrous path 30 years in the making. It could be said that Greeks themselves were always so fractious and warring that were not able to cooperate ever since the 1821 Revolution, they looked to the superpowers for leadership. Yes, the first Greek parties were... The British, French, Russian... It's like when the Greek teams were hiring foreign refs for their football games for the derbies.... No? If the European leadership reads the Brexit as a warning sign that the middle classes should be the main beneficiaries of economic policies, Europe will emerge stronger. It may also benefit Greece in that the national debt should not be paid at the expense of killing the debtor. But, no matter what, Greece has to change its practices and they way it does business, and I believe it can be best done within the EU, and under supervision. I know this injures national pride, but... _____ and now something fun:

Hey, are you knocking Drumpf? He's going to make America great again.... [click on the title in the video if this link doesn't work; HBO is blocking this video from being played on other websites, but it's OK on Youtube]

Typical business in Greece, which shows how things "work" there. I got old waiting for a proper home for our team. Even in this forum, back some 12-15 years ago, we were excited to hear that the new PAO home (not at Leoforos) would be ready for the 100th anniversary which was in ..2008.

Barca wins another championship and could win the cup too. Over all, in the last 10 years, this team has been phenomenal. Even though I'm very happy for Barca, there's a chasm between the elite teams and the rest of Europe. Yes, money isn't everything but it sure makes a big difference. How can you compete with an elite team when it can spend more for one player than the whole budget of a Greek team?

I'm happy for Leicester even though my team is Tottenham. I wouldn't jump into comparisons about Ranieri. Some coaches are better suited for a club rather than a national team. Ranieri has said he is a club coach. Managing a national team requires time to get to know the players available. I don't know if Ranieri came in and saw the total disrepair of Greek football and said, screw it, I'll just make some money. He could easily have not tried to do what Rehaggel and Santos did--and they had a revolt by the Greek players--when they asked them to show up for practice early in the morning. Our primadonas wanted to show up after noon.

Great ideas and plans fail if you don't have the right people to implement them. Also, enough of this "proud people" and whatever. Yeah, everyone is special.... But ... Have you heard of "The Misery of Being Greek" [1975] http://users.uoa.gr/~nektar/arts/prose/nikos_dimou_misfortune.htm'>

The problem with Essien and players like him for a team like PAO is that he is the top $$ earner while producing very little. This is a destabilizing force in a ..poor club when others are asked to take a lot less. Berg was the 3rd top earner, and he has been a fan favorite and more productive for the team.

To be or not to be? This is the question. Or, more aptly: Do you think UEFA will kick Greece out? Will this be a bad or a good thing? Can there be internal reform to create a truly professional and fair league?

You have first to demonstrate that it's better to know history and the truth, and thus be open minded. Those who have such knowledge realize that much of history is a struggle among civilizations & cultures who used any means, including brutality and propaganda, to achieve their goals. But, having such a grasp of true history usually leads individuals to worrying about pressing matters in the here-and-now (quality of life issues), instead of gearing up for a fight over claims about Alexander's legacy.

I watched extensive highlights of the game. This team, the way they play, isn't good enough for Europe. Yes, no Leto, no win last Sunday. We struggled to beat a team that is at the bottom of the league. A combo Leto-Berg will be nice for us for the playoffs. I'd be hopeful if we had Ouzounidi as a coach. He's got Panionios performing above their wildest expectations.

Leadership matters and its decisions affect lives. Same in politics, same in private business, same in all organizations. However, leadership comes in many styles and flavors. Not all are appropriate everywhere. You can be a great business person making real estate deals and firing people on tv, but this doesn't make you a good political leader, in the sense that you can actually do something good for the people. Alafouzos may be good in leading a media outlet like SKAI, but he's a terrible club leader. Not only he's ignorant of football but he has made horrible choices as to the management team that surrounds him and advises him. A great leader is not great because he knows everything; but rather he finds great people to work for him. Conviction and staying true to principle may sound good, but if a battle plan is proving disastrous you've go to amend it or defeat is certain. Ala seems to be stubborn (?) or unable to judge the ..judgment of his people. He stuck with Anastasiou way too long, even after one after another target were being lost this season. Same stupidity with Strama now. This guy had not succeeded in anything anywhere he coached. Yet, he was the one selected by Ala. Everyone who knows football sees that Strama lost the game against gavroi by (again) making the wrong subs and pulling the team back. But, Ala also has worsened the internal culture of PAO. Internal culture is like the blood that keeps an organization alive and well. It's my view that the club does not have a winning attitude, nobody has confidence in anybody else in the club, the coaches have not inspired the players nor had they gotten their respect; the players don't know or care about the PAO name, history; and the whole club has become a whining child, blaming everything and everybody else for their misery. It's the wrong focus. Yes, the league, the refs, and whathaveyou suck but this is not your biggest problem. What Ala said after the Karaiskaki game is typical incompetence and transferance of blame to anything but himself, the coach, and the team's managers. Some self-reflection is necessary, but I'm afraid we'll see more of the same for a long time. Ala has spent lots of his own money to pay for the club's debts and other running expenses, so he feels he's entitled to doing whatever he wants, which is wrong since PAO should not be his private toy, as Tzigger used to think/do in the past.

I don't know how the expression "winter coat" (palto) came about, but Essien is such. Not to brag, I said this in this forum last summer. :(