athinaios

Well, I don't know about the cases you mention. Some people never change. The conservative Jews (Hasidim and others) have identical beliefs of the hard-core Muslims. They live by the hundreds of thousands in NYC and elsewhere in communities that often clash (not violently though) with the gentiles. What is it that they don't resort to jihad? But, studies show that give people hope and a decent living conditions they develop a stake in the system. What is it that the US has done so well in integrating imms? Now there are sociopaths and closed-minded people who never going to change.

Oh, yeah, as this would happen under the new US admin... States have raised the min. wage about the fed level. I don't know what the number should be, but that number by itself doesn't exist in a vacuum. Depends what you can buy with your money. Big cities are very expensive to live in, and their suburbs becoming more expensive. Where are they going to get the labor for the service industry if they pay min. wage? Anyway, a $10/hour min. wage may be OK, in certain areas, if you have free health care, cheap public transportation, education, and other social services. In the US, since the 1970s, middle class wages haven't risen (adjusted for inflation). Many consumer goods have become cheaper (appliances, clothing, food, etc) so wage earners have seen an improvement in their lives. However, 3 items have far outpaced wages: cost of education, housing, and health care.

I don't know if this is true, but first someone (other than Tsakas) has to show interest. Alafouzo means well but he's totally incompetent to be a club owner who makes decisions. I don't know what Gilberto is doing, or anyone else Ala has around him. Actually, Ala is cheating himself for all the money and energy he's put into the club and he has nothing to show for. He should go, but who's going to buy this club in this condition and the condition of the league?

The restaurant business outside the fancy places relies on cheap labor. Some of this labor is undocumented in the US. The kitchen, delivery, cleaners, bus boys, etc, work long hours for little pay and many off the books. In the US there the refugees aren't a big number compared to other immigrants. The key, with people who have different backgrounds that clash with US society, is to integrate and educate them. When there's a ghetto, bad things happen. If someone thinks they can advance and have a decent life, they develop patriotism in the country in which they have stakes. Europe has done many mistakes with its immigration policies. It should not accept anything it cannot absorb. Many of the immigrants end up in ghettos, disillusioned, and they seek something to make them feel important, even if this is hooliganism or worse. Merkel made a huge mistake by saying Germany would accept hundreds of thousands of refugees. If Germany needs new workers, it could have done this quietly, more orderly, and accept people who'd get a job, not end up in ghettos. Immigration is a big topic of discussion (usually not a good discussion, because most people get emotional over this issue and argue like maniacs), but it's always been a fact of life in every nation. Good immigration (legal or illegal) could be a positive factor on both ends--the country and the imms.

I don't think you're reading this exit poll correctly. Only for those who thought imm was the most important issue, Trump won big, but only among those people... Further down, you see that What should happen to most illegal immigrants working in the U.S.? 60% said :Offer chance to become legal So, isn't that contradictory to your conclusion, that this issue was the most important social issue? Trump won on the promise to bring back jobs to the rust belt and because of he (and the right wing media) whipped the conservative base with anti-Hillary prop. This is also shown by the exit poll you cite.

Ha! Do you know who uses the undocumented workers?... It's business owned by Republicans, from farms, to factories, to construction, to meat processing plants, to affluent who use nannies, to landscapers, to ..you name it. He's now talking about a ..fence. We won't built a wall, nor will he deport more than Obama did. And, he may even legalize a bunch of them. It took a non-traditional Republican to deliver the presidency to the GOP by running on themes traditionally Dems did.

No, Atromitos would not bring in lots more fans, but who really knows? With success, things happen. What I want is for a more competitive league, which would be good for a better spectacle and making the top teams even better. You're right that the bigger clubs dominate in England, Spain, Germany, but their leagues are far more competitive. Same with a few other leagues whose teams are classes above the Greek ones. Look at the numbers Blackhawk provided above.... IF this is not a huge crisis, I don't know what it would be. The sport is dying and the idiots in charge are fighting for chairs on the Titanic.

Sorry, they should pay us in several extra boughatsa trays at least. ['cause the 2 trays they've been sending us every month aren't nearly enough]

I don't like the idea of the playoffs either. Play your games and in the end that's the finish order. Or, have a smaller league as there's a huge gap between the top 3-5 teams and the rest, and have them play 4 times a season. But, in my mind, all this is cosmetic bs. They should make the league more competitive and add quality. Once they get rid of the mafia, (this is a big IF), then there are ways to boost the reputation and competitiveness of the league. Maybe revenue sharing; a draft; salary caps, etc. This sport is dying...

I know John Oliver has a selective focus and exaggerates to make comedic comments, but his latest (last for the year) show was interesting.

Friends, It's been a week since the US general election, and a new page in American politics has started. Let's put the other thread to rest, because it escalated into personal attacks, so let's respectfully discuss the new president's tenure and related matters here. Let's remind ourselves that the point of this forum is to welcome a diversity of people and ideas, and to have a good time, even when we disagree with others; and, it'll be fun, because we'll be having a civilized discussion, right?... So, president-elect Trump.... We'll be watching but who can say what he'll actually do? How do you judge his first moves and statements?

No, I didn't imply anything bad by it. I simply pointed out something people may not be aware of, that in 2000 we had the same phenomenon. Actually I remember how both parties played both sides of the issue. As Gore and Bush went up and down in the polls, it looked possible that either of them could win the popular but lose the EC vote. And, yes, both sides had criticized the EC when it was convenient to them. After the election, it was the Dems that asked for constitutional amendment. New York, for example, has passed a law saying that if the other states do it, NYS will allocate its electors on national vote outcome!

I suspect the liberals would say, if the system elected Clinton via the EC had she lost the national vote, she should be the legitimate president, because, as I said, the established rules dictate so. It would be Attila the Hun who would be yelling bring down the system. No? But, it's one side that has consistently labeled its opponents as illegitimate. BO won everything and was never accepted as legitimate by a big faction on the right that now says, let's play by the rules... However, liberals are on the record since 2000 (remember that election??) that the EC should go.

@Bananas It was PAO's fault that allowed Oly to be the only one to mostly benefit from the new CL. It's beyond any debate that Tzigger left PAO unprotected when the "paragga" was being built. It was gross negligence because Tzigger was a very rich person. Instead he made the wrong decisions, divided the club, and had incompetent people around him and in important positions within the club. (do you remember the presidents he appointed?) So while we were fractured and masturbating dreaming of past glory, Kokalis and Marinakis invested lots of money into their team. They were smart to understand that building a strong team and an EPO/league/refs to their liking, they could win titles, go to the new CL, get $$$$$, which would invest (most?) back into their empire to get more titles, etc, etc. I have no confidence a country shaken to its foundations by the economic crisis and by corruption that some good solution will emerge any time soon. If I were to fix this, I'd throw everyone out, get professional technocrats outside the realm of the teams and put them in charge of the league, EPO, and refs. But, I'd also make a main issue the competitiveness of the league. Oly above all, but also the other bigger teams would object, but I'd try to make the league like the NFL in the US. I would not allow big gaps among the teams to take place. Spending caps, revenue sharing, draft, and whatever else the successful teams in the US do and they have sports that are very successful. And, yes, why not have Platanias win the title? The Euroleague is revamping basketball to make it more competitive and more entertaining as well.

Yes, most definitely, Trump would not accept the result and we would never hear the end of it.The calls for revolution and storming the Bastille would echo in this forum too. For me, Trump is the legitimate president because he won based on established rules. But, I'm also for abolishing the EC or changing its relevance by states deciding to allocate their electors differently. It's an 18th century "safety device" put in place by the elites to prevent the common people from doing something crazy. In my mind there's no need to have the EC today. We should allow the national vote to determine the national president. It's absurd to have a candidate get millions of votes more than her opponent and lose the election.

So, the 2016 election is over. Trump wins the presidency by winning the Electoral College and losing to Clinton by about 2 million votes in the popular count. Funny thing, because he has been deriding the EC for years as "unfair", "stupid" etc. The best change the country can do without a constitutional amendment is that every state passes a law that says it'll allocate its electors either based on % of the state vote or give them to the person that wins the national popular vote. This way the EC will be rendered moot. The EC is a 18th century anachronism, invented by the elites as a safety mechanism to prevent the election of someone like Trump chosen by the ignorant public.

haha... What money? They probably spent it already... {the check is in the mail, as they say...}

What I meant is that when there is a serious crisis in a country, extreme groups (fascists, anarchists) surface and gain followers. I don't think Xrysi Aygi would be as strong if Greece wasn't in such a bad mess. In the 1930s, in the US during the Great Depression there were fascist and communist ..movements, because of the near collapse of the economic system. When law and order and civic responsibility break down, and when people feel desperate, anarchism (like, I don't give a crap about anything) is fueled, but also at the same time fascist/ultra-nationalist parties gain power. You said it, in a way... When you have foreign powers threatening or abusing the country (even if it's through economic means), and when you have an influx of immigrants who want a piece of your meager bread, it's expected to have ultra-nationlist/fascist parties gain.

Ah, we have a true betting man.... :) The odds? I'd say 99-1 the EU will disappear! You know the Austro-Hungarians started WW1? And their fellow allies the Germans sent Lenin to Russia with a train full of gold.... So, they're also responsible for communism too.

Hungary's Karl Orban is no angel, to put it mildly. He dreams of another empire, the Austro-Hungarian one, and he's exploiting the anti-immigrant and anti-Jewish sentiment to pass authoritarian measures--restricting freedoms, going after political opponents, like Putin does, whom he admires--while blasting the EU, which few years ago saved Hungary from bankruptcy by giving it $26 billion. His strong anti-communist stance and his rabid religious fervor are seen as very attractive by the right wing, including the extreme right, and people like the "Burkean conservatives" like Evans-Pritchard, and our own 1789 here. A Greek-American was appointed ambassador to Hungary and spent 3 years there. Her memoir on that experience in Hungary is interesting. Here's another article from the Polico on Hungary and Orban. By the way, I'm taking bets as to the demise of the EU...

Greek society is in crisis on a fundamental level, not just the financial sector. I agree, no matter who's in charge, if the country can't feed itself, and buy stuff it needs (like heating oil), there isn't much choice other than accepting the terms of lenders. I'm not saying the latter haven't put the knife to the bone, exhausting Greece and fueling fascism. But, there's no reason the Greek gov can't modernize the public sector, fight corruption, etc. But, I also think the people have to rethink their attitude, starting by treating each other better, including respecting the environment and the land they occupy. If you think that all ills are foreign-borne, then look at they institutions or organizations controlled 100% by Greeks, like EPO, the soccer league, etc...

I have to ask the same question as Bananas. Why is Soros for open borders? We may know his hidden agenda, but it's not enough to say he's for open borders without providing a reasonable possible explanation. Also, like most people, I don't think he's a single-minded person.

There are also laws against proselytism, so the official religion is protected. The Zeus worshipers, if organized as a religion, should get recognition. As for the mosque, it could be built anywhere. I read that the proposed site was once a military barracks that can be used for housing since there are buildings there already. That sounds good to me. The issue for me is that there has to be separation of church-state in a modern society, so the state does not favor one over another. I can't help that chuckle when I hear fanatics of one religion criticizing or ridiculing the religious practices of another religion. Nobody seems to notice that 99% of the religious follow the culture and myths of the place of their birth. As far as I know, no one chose where to be born.

I'm with you. I'd instantly change my religion the moment I tried bacon and was told can't have it :). Btw, all religions have silly prohibitions, from eating shellfish to clothes.

First, it's a shame the old Omonia square was destroyed, but it's not the first time something classical and beautiful was replaced with a monstrosity. Look around Athens and you'll see ugly apt. bldgs, garbage, and cacophony. Anyway, so I understand.... If a country says it values freedom and liberties, should it allow people to believe in Zeus even if this goes against majority's worship preference? Instead, do you want to copy backward dictatorships, and oppressive theocracies? And, if you don't allow for a mosque to be built, what are you preventing exactly? That those Muslims will not find a way to pray? Instead of promoting enlightenment and fighting superstition with education, some people choose to kill each other on the debate whether the deity likes pork or not, and whether he has designated some sheeple as the chosen ones.