athinaios

You're right. Bad owner/management decisions brought a boatload of crappy and expensive players. But, at least Alafouzo has paid out of his pocket for those mistakes and some. Especially during difficult times, with the economy and the league producing no value. I'm not related, do not know, and have no financial benefit from Alafouzo whatsoever. However, PAO was going to the third division in the post Tzigger and Pateras (etc) eras under tremendous debt....and after months of no one willing to show up and rescue the team, and days before dropping to 3rd division, Alafouzos showed up and pumped in money, did whatever he could, got UEFA and Greek permits to go on, and made the team good enough to win a cup. He's been a bad decision maker but we have to remember where the team was before he showed up. He didn't destroy the club even though he hasn't elevated it either. I don't know about you guys, but I like the fact that PAO's history doesn't include the team playing in 3rd division. Now, debts that go back to the 2 previous regimes, need to be retired. Who is going to come up with another $10 mil? I will be the first to call Yannis and tell him to sell if anyone serious expresses interest. Maybe you know someone?

@jvc Com'on man, you're quoting a Ghana rag? And, who's Essien to talk about PAO? He took $1.6 mil (maybe more) to come and retire at PAO. Very unprofessional on his part. He never took his job seriously. Alafouzo or whomever the coach may be, if you get paid lots of money (I think he was the highest paid) you should respect that and give 100%.

Hey, you guys, did you find Alafouzos' replacement yet? Better hurry, because the club is heading towards a financial iceberg. According to this article http://www.sport24.gr/Columns/giannis-seretis/duo-dromoi-gia-na-apofugei-ton-titaniko.4498509.html (and if I understood it correctly) PAO is facing losing UEFA's approval, which if it happens it'll lead the club to second (or third?) division! The reason, what else, is the club owes tons of money and there's no money. So, what now?..... (maybe Mesi's transfer would be delayed for a while?) I don't know if the article is accurate, sounds like the writer knows what he's talking about.

I think Hollywood changed in the last 30+ years as society changed, and as social progress took hold. Same with TV. Yeah, back in the days, they would promote stereotypes, but there have been many, many films about slavery, social issues, controversial topics, lots of women in leading roles, etc. I wish we lived in a society where we wouldn't have discussion about genders and races because such would not be factors any longer. No need for quotas either. You're good, here's your award. I don't care even if your skin is green, you come from Jupiter, and you worship Assura Mazda (not a car by the way )

Yeah, but it'll be interesting to see how much spin can win him the day... or his presidency. Spin is one thing but like Putin says (on SNL) when you're going to lie Donald lie about something important! (not about something easily verifiable, like the small size of his... ___) Trump has a very thin skin, and needs to be exulted all the time, so his ego may big his downfall.

Leadership matters. The rhetoric of leaders also matters. Trump has used it skillfully to create an electoral coalition that won him the presidency, but he has to understand certain rhetoric empowers the worst and normalizes abhorrent behavior, so he should stop. He's the president now.

Nikitas is probably guessing right. In this ocean of troubles for Tsipras, if he could take some credit for progress on the Cyprus problem, he would not hesitate to send those 8 back. So, don't anger Erdogan, play nice in exchange for something. Plus, as others have said, Greece cannot afford to escalate with Turkey. Military exercises are costly, so unless absolutely necessary... I think the courts decided correctly as Turkey is a brutal state, turning into a cult. Those 8 may have committed crimes (killing civilians?) but there's no way they'd get fair treatment if sent back.

The "western world" has gradations. Women in the US are not treated as nicely as women in the rest of the advanced western world. The social services, including pre and post-natal support, etc. Women are different in some ways, right guys? Physiologically they have different needs, and as mothers as well. That's why women, over all, have different priorities than men in regards to public policy. Men tend to focus on law and order, aggressive foreign policy, guns, strong whatever, etc. Women are affected by how strong the social safety net is, and thus they care more about family planning, social services, day care, health care, education, care for the elderly, etc. But, do you see any problems with that in the US? I mean, it's not exactly even plane for women and men of the same socio-economic level as far as opportunities and treatment. Example: health plans cover Viagra but not birth control (the ACA forced plan providers, but this is being rescinded under Trump). Example: There is a big swath of conservatism in this country, where gender roles are still stuck in the 19th century. The view that men are for business and women are for housekeepers. Men are assertive, women are bitches. What do you think the reaction would have been if a woman had come for a debate unprepared, having to explain "grab 'em by the cock", and, she brought to the stage her 5 children from 3 different men. Somehow I think she'd be treated differently than... I want to agree with you and women have same liberties. They do in constitutional ways, not in reality, as laws are applied or how society treats them. However, I'm glad to hear that you are for equal rights and treatment.

No, what I'm saying isn't the opposite of not not airing negative stuff about him, when the facts (not allegations) and videos, and statements he, himself, had made looked bad. But you probably think that was negative coverage. At the same time the media, both on the right and mainstream eviscerated HRC mostly on allegations. And, false equivalencies became the norm. "Grab them by the pussy because you're a star" was equivalent in coverage to those emails she was hiding and the possible conflicts of interests with her foundation. The Repubs and their media spend tons of time and money investigating Benghazi and?..... The media loved Trump for the ratings, especially in the GOP primaries. He spent very little money because he was getting this terrific and free coverage.

I agree with you. But, I'm pondering whether his style (never mind his substance for a while) is what most Americans think is appropriate for a president of the US and the leader of the free world. Most people don't know or understand the details of policies, but they have a sense what's appropriate for this high office. No matter what you thought of Reagan, he was very presidential. Same with Obama. I just don't know if Trump's pettiness, juvenile behavior, and blatant lying would make him even more unpopular and, thus, ineffective. I think coming in the way he did, and with the lowest approval rating of any president means that he doesn't have much political capital to spend. Many people voted against Hillary, others stayed home, and many Republicans held their nose voting for Trump. So only a small, hardcore element is behind Trump. The mainstream media gave Trump lots of uncritical exposure, while he has been viciously attacking them. Now, they're watching every move of his and aren't shy in challenging him. I mean, they now call the "alternative facts" what they are, lies! >> Chris Wallace similarly challenged Priebus on “Fox News Sunday.” Wallace said Trump had made statements that were “flat wrong” and that there needed to be discussion about “the president’s honesty.” Wallace showed photos of the crowd at Barack Obama’s first inauguration and compared the number of attendees to the crowd gathered at Trump’s. There’s no question that fewer people attended this year.

But, guys, the bottom 40% has nothing to invest, so the market fluctuations aren't directly connected to its well being. So, the market "corrected" bigly (or is it, big league) in 2008 but ever since 90% of the wealth has been captured by the top 5%. By the way, if you put your money in the market under which presidents (Democrats or Republicans) you'd do so much better since the 1930s? It's not even close... (generously, I'm not including Hoover and his Great Depression)

I'm in the market, so can you tell me when the peak will be so I can see everything and sit on cash? We never learn, it seems. Unregulated capitalism leads to extremes and implosion. Also, the strength of a country's economy isn't measured by its over all gold holdings or GDP but by the strength of its middle class. Further, what makes the middle class strong is not an accident but specific policies and the law.

Thank you Bananas and Tzatziki for your cool, and levelheadedness. I'd also like to point out that not all fouls are the same, "professional" or not. Some are more egregious than others. For example, if someone bumps into you or trips you, accidentally or on purpose, they get a yellow card, but if you turn around and shoot them, you will be ejected into Hades.

Don't worry, everything will be terrific.

But, hope is eternal.... Little Herbie could beat the muscle cars! So, if you score one of these, you can easily beat the Zastavas! But this is what happens when Herbie isn't handled correctly..

Guys, we let this thread go out of bounds, trying to be as accommodating as possible during this rough election season, so from now on all posts and posters that use inappropriate language and/or taunting will result in warnings and suspensions. We can't continue like this. It's not what this forum is about. I just warned 4 members who posted above. You know who you are, so STOP it!

My goodness, this was so gooooood. They won this game on their own; gavroi didn't lose it. Gives me high hopes for this team... I think we've been winning 90% of the knockout games against Oly many years now, so we'll get another cup this season. Of course, I'm not losing sight of the Euroleague and the domestic championship....... But, maybe this team will peak on the right moment..

^^^ I agree that a coach needs some time to change the team's style. Just think that Ouzounidis had to work with so many different players every game, because of absences, injuries, transfers, and others who practically now are not on the roster. When a new coach comes in and produces immediate results is when the team has a strong core but needs adjustments, which is not the case with O right now. Look the season is a bust, but it was a bust before O came.

Oh, I think on this one you're wrong my friend..... Is this what happens in the real world?? No! Those who get most of the benefits always want more. And, they complain the most when they lose a portion of their huge slice... Just for fun, read Forbes magazine (or any of its type). You'll see how many analysts, editors, economic players, etc, all complain about the disastrous policies that practically kill the entrepreneurial spirit, tax the job creators too much, etc. etc. Meanwhile, 90% of the economic boom since the Great Recession of the 2008-09 has been captured by the top 5%, while Wall Street has been breaking records giving bonuses to its employees, CEOs, money managers, etc. Anyway, I don't want to go into another topic... The thing is to keep healthy competition going. Capitalism leads to monopolies unless there's oversight and regulation. Like any society that's healthy, UEFA has to make its competitions healthy. Same with national leagues. It's not fun or good for Greece that 1 team has a bigger budget than all of its competitors combined and wins 99% of the titles.

oh, it wasn't for this match... that's what my source tells me..... I got on their case about those lotto numbers too and they said those are the winning numbers, but not for this week's draw!

Funny thing, I can't explain it, but all those who can tell the future cannot figure out how to score the winning lotto numbers...

No, no, I know someone from the ..future

I got word, that once the second half starts, PAO will bang in 2 goals within few minutes. I thought with both teams not having much to lose would be playing more openly... Low quality game. Maybe I'd spend $10 to attend, not more.

@Bananas Yeah, I'm of the same view. I've been saying for years that the gap between the top (maybe a dozen) teams and the rest is huge and getting bigger. A handful of teams have budgets greater than the whole Greek league. You can't compete with that. Maybe there's no difference in how competitive they are among teams who spend $200 and $250 million, but there's no way a team with a budget of under $10 mil. (like PAO) can compete. Same in Greece, where Oly often had budgets bigger than all of their competitors combined. Now, the concentration of great players in 3-4 leagues also increase the quality of the teams & leagues. This brings success and more income. But, the titles are won only by a handful of top teams. The rest are like film extras who appear just to make the scene work. I think UEFA is making a big mistake for allowing this to happen. I like Bananas suggestions. The only snag may be the definition of "foreign" player. If someone is a European citizen and part of the EU, then they can work anywhere within the EU.

I have appreciated Zeca's zeal and contributions but he's hurt the team several times when he gets cards, especially when there is absolutely no reason for such. This would drive me mad if I were a coach. He's not mature to be a captain. He also appears to be a complainer, judging from his constant chatter with the refs. This would piss me off if I were a ref.\ Anyway, I think he can still contribute.