athinaios

I don't want to start a big debate about religion in this thread, but imho Trump isn't religious, but he's playing everyone as such. He has to, since he has to rely on GOP voter support. But, for a person who bragged as never having read a book, I doubt he read the Bible. Remember when he said, "nobody reads the Bible more than me"? Seriously? Who says that really? And, his "2 Corinthians"? [It's "Corinthians II"] :- D Does anyone here thinks Trump is religious? Or, that he follows any religion? Never mind, whether he behaves like a good Christian... Up to a year ago, he'd go on Howard Stern show to brag about lots of stuff no serious Christian would say out loud... The "grab 'em by the pussy" wasn't an isolated incident. I hope one of these days someone asks him to recite his favorite passage from the Bible. Anyway, for me, actions matter more than words in this case.

OK, this is funny, but there's science behind it. Why do UPS (delivery service for those who aren't familiar with the largest private delivery service in the US) trucks only make right turns? OK, they make left turns too, but not against incoming traffic (two way street), so by making right turns they don't follow the shortest route. Care to guess why? (before you watch the video)

First, let's separate emotions (like "I hate the EU & IMF") from facts, and ideological preferences (anti-EU) from available choices. So, the short answer is.... Greece should do what it its interest but also what it can afford. In other words, the remedy cannot be worse than the treatment. Based on what I know, Greece cannot afford to go back to the drachma. Shedding the debt and loans, sounds great, but bankruptcy means no more $$, and they'd have to import anything they need (oh, and they need just about everything) with a deeply devalued drachma, because I assume the country doesn't export enough goods (to raise hard currency) in order to buy what it needs, from fuels, to foods. I'll write more later....

This is the path we're choosing here. In my experience, very few people change their behavior, at least not immediately, and especially while in the heat of the battle. Like a ref, or a news editor, long discussions aren't really productive and most often are perceived as a bargaining session--which is not.

@Athens4You have to ask them. Polls (OK, from last year) suggest most Greeks want to keep the Euro. Are you asking me why Greece should keep the euro? And, by the way, being in the EU isn't necessarily synonymous with common currency. A few members have kept their national currency. Though I'm not sure Greece could now go back to the drachma without major pains.

Thank you, Athens4 for the good post. Conditions, in my opinion, don't have to be the same, though minimum standards are necessary. I think it goes back to the formation of the modern state, appearing in the 16th c, but really forming in the 18th c. What makes people transfer allegiance from clan, to tribe, to state? It could be myths, aspirations, but above a beneficial relationship. Notions of citizenship, nationalism, patriotism, are forged over time and the relationship between the rulers and the people is based on benefits for both. For thousands of years, people were subjects not citizens. It may surprise you that after the Am. Revo most people identified as citizens of their particular states. The Articles of Confederation (like EU's governing rules) were ineffective. It took another decade to scrap those and write a new constitution that made the US a federal republic. But, it wasn't until the Civil War (1860) that "the US are" to "the US is".. (though some in the South are still fighting the CW. If Euro states begin to see more benefits to cost, attitudes will change. In a way, it's already true. Many Greeks hate the harsh measures but still think being in Europe with the Euro is better than going back to drachmas and isolation.

Well, look, it's worth discussing or thinking about what we can do to make this place more enjoyable. Many, many sites' quality deteriorates when they allow a free-for-all. I'm not for censorship, in the sense of opposing but reasoned arguments, however, we've seen threads deteriorate to name calling and basically members taunting others, or just bullshitting just to vent. Sorry, but this is not the place to vent frustrations by smashing things around. Anyway, this thread will be about matters of science, which I think should concern us all. The next topic, within this thread, can be about anything scientific. Anything, from Space X, going to the planets, to Westworld and AI (artif. intel)

Yeah? But he doesn't admit he's a racist. In the good ol' days, they would admit it as a badge of honor.

I think we have several members who have an interest in science, in the scientific discoveries, and in the debates of public policy that involve issues science has something to say about, like climate change or global warming. I hope in this thread, at least, we keep the high standards of reasoned statements and reasonable discussion. I'll start this thread with a disturbing new study from Stanford U., "Anyone can become an internet troll".... "The research offers evidence that, under the right circumstances, anyone can become a troll." I hope there are exceptions to this, as we'll demonstrate here. Right? Some of you will notice that some suggestions from this article are being practiced here.... A short excerpt from the article: “Understanding what actually determines somebody to behave antisocially is essential if we want to improve the quality of online discussions,... ....Insight into the underlying causal mechanisms could inform the design of systems that encourage a more civil online discussion and could help moderators mitigate trolling more effectively.” Interventions to prevent trolling could include discussion forums that recommend a cooling-off period to commenters who have just had a post flagged, systems that automatically alert moderators to a post that’s likely to be a troll post or “shadow banning,” which is the practice of hiding troll posts from non-troll users without notifying the troll."

You call it a "spy ship" I call it a friendly ambassador. Besides, it's so obvious... .who would spy like that? don't they have satellites in the sky and moles in the US?

Very well said. Except one.... where did you get that ice cream??? I hope you didn't raid our secret stash.... Did you find the key I misplaced? Go to Tantra's ingloo and chip some ice, add some syrup and serve!

This is getting out of control I'm going to edit/delete posts and ask everyone to cool it and take a breather... @aek66 don't repeat: "you are the rag and the liberal mouthpiece." @ jimAdam cool it @Hudson Don't challenge the mods like that. To the mods: ........Same posters keep spewing their garbage and I (and a couple others) call it, they whine that their views must be respected. Well, I demand you respect my views too..<<< NOT APPROPRIATE @thrylos don't escalate @olympic Hellas don't escalate It's late, but I'll be editing posts here and around the Let's Talk About it, because we're not having a discussion anymore. I tried to reply to several of you, or via PM, but I realized it's not working and I don't want to go around in circles. I'll also be deleting and hiding some posts until we figure out how to proceed here. As the mods have said, we don't see everything, and the warnings may be uneven but we have to keep in mind this is not an arena to exercise hooliganism. As a footnote, I'm following the discussion in the GreekSoccer thread and it's interesting to see what happened over there. We can't allow the same thing to happen here.

Com'on AEK66, you don't mean it only means that, right? In the US individual choice is not about abortion only. Of course, the right to birth control, and abortion should be a woman's choice, but individual choice includes freedom of religion and from religion, pursuit of happiness (defined by the individual), freedom of expression, which includes criticism, individual choice in marrying a person of one's choice, access to information, free assembly and association, where to live, what to buy and eat, and I could go on and on.

@Bananas@Hudson well said. People are angry at the establishment, but they share part of the responsibility. Even though there are plenty of reasons for people to be angry and agitated, I'm afraid that in the cases you mentioned, the people are being manipulated by demagogues to whip them into an agitated mob and steered into a direction that offers no solutions to their problems. It's like, let's burn down the house, because there are termites.. When someone is angry, agitated, scared, etc, but without good knowledge or training, they most likely make serious mistakes, rush to judgment, and can be easily manipulated. Practicing citizenship requires serious and responsible effort.

I'd learn how to ride a horse really well.. Interesting questions. I'd be in a quandary if my robotic house cleaner said I'm working "her" too much. Ex Machina is a great movie with lots of twists and an unexpected ending.

^^^ Westworld is a new series on HBO. Its premise is "to satisfy every desire of the guests"... In one scene, the question is, "do you know why Westworld is so successful?" and the answer is, because it gives people what they really want.... to F*** and kill!

That's why I think we have to be more careful and sensible here, in addition to keeping in mind the nature and scope of this site.

@tantra129 As much as many of us have been critical of how Greece has been irresponsible with its finances for a century, the IMF and Europe have not been good handlers of the situation either. Very harsh and unrealistic terms. And the method by which they applied the measures was faulty. They could start with harshness, but then give lots of incentives instead of only pain and a very long, if ever, recovery. If you want me to bail you out, and you've been irresponsible all along and you've lied to me, I'd ask myself if I need to associate with you any longer. If I decided you're worth my help, I'd offer harsh terms but also incentives. Show me that you seriously changed your ways and I'll improve the terms. I could even give you a bonus, etc. Anyway, interesting article but it makes a bad analogy between US-California and EU-Greece. Not similar. One one hand you have a country and on the other you have a "union" with sovereign countries.

Tzatziki, please don't do that again... I almost broke my monitor by turning in upside down...

Sorry mate but you guys should get on with modern technology...... You and your "mobile" phones....!

I've accessed the site from different computers and diff locations. No problems in the last many days. Hmm. [He says so in order to put them at ease....while secretly installing malware to monitor members computers] The times I notice a slowdown is when my computer is on auto mode backing up the drive, or I may have another page open that's "running a script" (sites that are loaded with crap or lots of bad plugins)

I didn't watch the match... found something better to do with my time. But, if you're right, then is it OUzou who told them how to play or that the players didn't go into the box? As I read the sports sites, PAO played like a third rate team and didn't really create scoring chances in this game. Lybe spoke with angry fans after the game and said they players basically can't do anything more....

Well, yeah, you're right. He said those things during the campaign. But, I can also understand why people get upset when things they don't want actually materialize. There's got to be a reasonable discussion about the effectiveness of proposed and implemented policies. Will the wall stop illegal immigration? In my opinion, no. As you know, when there's demand.... (same with drugs, alcohol, etc)

Just for the record.... PAO managed to get a 0-0 tie from Levadiakos at Leoforos today, 1/29/2017. No interest for games like that any longer, I see... Don't blame anyone really. I wouldn't spend my money to see the game if I were in Athens. Dreary atmosphere, bad spectacle, and I'd get upset that the best scoring chance of the game belongs to Levadiakos.

I'm hopeful someone wealthy will step in. The Giannakopoulos family would be best, because they spend but also have a knack for hiring capable managers. As for the debt, PAO needs close to $8-10 million right away. Of the last $5 mil of the capital/stock increase only $3.5 has been raised. The next $5 mil additional increase in the capital/stock that was approved recently has to come from somewhere. That money will be spent immediately to pay old contracts and obligations. I hear that many PAO staff are 2 months without pay. As with many Greek businesses, nobody really knows what the hell is going on. I don't know if sports clubs are required to publicly disclose their balance sheets. Now, the debt is one thing, but if we want the club to go higher, the budget has to at least match what gavroi are spending. Again, we need a "crazy" person to step in. Crazy for PAO that is. The league does not represent value, nor the economic conditions in Greece would allow for a profit any time soon. Even playing in Europe is much harder now, but you've got to make a huge investment to get to the CL group stage and recoup part of the investment.