athinaios

Today, the PAE revealed the numbers, but everybody is not on the same page.. DY said he'll reveal everything on Monday if PAE doesn't come clean about the numbers. Keeper Vlaho is signed by Benfica and PAO will get much needed cash. But, does anyone know what money must be in the club's possession and by what date so the team isn't penalized or worse relegated?

I read that Greece is trying to redefine the story of Adam and Eve, because a new law allows transgender persons to self-determine their gender, legally now. Do you think that Greece's traditions and identity have been altered too much, enough, not enough enough? Membership in the EU and greater integration in Western Europe had an undeniable effect on the laws of the country, but it seems that Greece is being brought forward often kicking and screaming.

This doesn't look good at all. If PAO isn't relegated would be the best outcome right now. I really don't get Alafouzos, he approved the transfers in the summer, he knew the situation, and to basically pull out after the season has started is unethical, stupid, vindictive, and anything else bad you can say. I don't know why the new people at the helm aren't telling us what's going on. Karagounis said "no" to joining the effort to save the club, and the veterans of the team issued a similar statement why the current management isn't more transparent...

In my conversation with people who don't want any restrictions to gun ownership and use, they say 2 things, after they mumble that "more education" is needed... 1. A bad guy with a gun is stopped by a good guy with a gun, meaning all the good people should be armed. 2. We need to have guns to defend our freedom, especially from the government. In my judgement both those arguments aren't valid. For #2, good citizenship and democratic institutions is the best defense against authoritarian government. If we get to the point of the government coming after the people, it's too late. Gov. has overwhelming firepower nowadays. As for #1, see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCI4bUk4vuM

This is what I'm hearing after reading that..... You're in prison, so the rapes and beatings will continue but there's a promise of good ..food. Excuse me, but the club has an existential crisis and they're now discussing a new development about the γηπεδο?!!

Trump was always a snake-oil salesman, bullshitting his way through life, but a successful con artist. This we knew way before he entered politics. He lived in NY so we got to know him very well over the decades. The most surprising thing for me was that he would get so many people to buy into whatever he's saying, because he never had thought about any issue deeply or has good knowledge of it. But, once he got the flag of the Republican party the tribe closed behind him. I understand why he'd hit a nerve, as you say it, but com'on, at least you'd want a competent, qualified doctor for what ails you.

We should not cede the definition of patriotism to the scoundrels, the intolerant, and the ignorant.

The US had a founding ideal: equality under the law and of opportunity. Falling short of this ideal (and, boy, have we fallen short for so long), is the real disrespect. For me worshiping the symbols themselves without understanding what they represent is hypocritical. I also don't have to pledge allegiance to the flag or to the anthem itself or even to the president! I support the constitution and ideals upon which this country was founded, such as--life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness!

Ala refused to meet with Ouz and stopped paying additional money to the club, but reportedly he'll pay the taxes, loans, etc. The key is that the club pays the players by end of Oct. Once this is done, then they'll sell a couple players and finish the season limping. Forget Europe for a while; I think it's certain that PAO will be kicked out. But, given the situation, if the club avoids bankruptcy it'd be the best outcome. Btw, I don't think going to 3rd div. for 3 years is the solution because most of the debts won't go away. Now they could dissolve the club but... As for the debts, yeah, some of them are stupid, but some are to people who need those payments, including the club's workers, managers, trainers. You know, if I had a small business and a club owed me money I'd be pissed off. Ala has to open the books and explain how exactly we got here. He should not be absolved of any responsibility when this past year he approved all new signings and spendings. He promised Ouz certain things. He better be a man and own up to those promises.

Looking back someone can say it'd have been better back then to have declared bankruptcy and fallen to 3rd div. like AEK because the law was more lenient---discharge the debt (which is unethical if you ask me) and climb back up in 3 years. Not anymore. But, the fact remains: Bad people still control the league. I want to see the PAO books open so we know what happened when and by whom. Transparency may help with fixing the club, same with the league eventually. But how do you account for bad decisions? Same in politics. You may reduce corruption but incompetency can ruin any effort. Alafouzos wasted lots of money by selecting bad coaches and bad, expensive players. Let's say I'm very wealthy and I pay Greece's debts today. Do you think that its leaders won't accumulate huge debts quickly again?.... Same with football. PAO needs a very wealthy person who will dump tons of money into the club and lose lots of it. Oh, and by the way, forget having a group of people collectively guiding the club... not in Greece; such models don't work there.

I agree with most of what you're saying. But, even though Alafouzos was totally incompetent and failed in every single task, including the task he first claimed wanted to do--to get the club on sound fiscal state--PAO is in the same position as when Ala took over. Back then no big-money PAO person stepped in to save the club (SHAME to those who left the club in such a terrible shape), and I'm afraid no one will step in today. So, Ala just took everyone for a ride only to return the club to same horrible position. The new law does not allow a club to shed its debt, unless the club is dissolved, including giving up its symbols! Plus 3 years in amateur league, and another 3 to climb back to div 1..... that is, if they still can climb a division every year (doubtful)... So, 6 years, plus old debts... This is not good. But, once they get to div. 2, the debts are awaiting... So, PAO can't do what AEK did.. shed the debts and return in 3 years. Don't get me started with Gate 13...

Well, Alafouzos called it quits today. He's leaving though he said he'll help up to $20 million of PAO's obligations. Apparently, the club owes and has running obligations of lots more than the 20 mil. I was never a fan of Alafouzo as a manager and owner of our beloved club, but he did step in when PAO was about to go bankrupt, again, and when no one, nobody, was willing to save the club. In many conversations here, when many were asking for Ala's immediate resignation, I didn't think he was holding on when there was a better alternative. Simply there was none. I figured that he was probably losing money by owning PAO. He leaves while the club isn't in a worse position it was 5-6 years ago, in terms of financial obligations. And, by the way, he's still willing to fork out another 20 mil, something the wealthy previous owners did not when they abandoned the club. So, here's the moment so many fans wanted.

They'll sell keeper Vlacho to Benfica now. But, I think you're right, Alafouzo would have walked away already and save some more of his money. He knows if he leaves with no one else to take over (with money) the club will go bankrupt. So, he won't leave in a few weeks or in the near future, but the club will be barely making it. Also right about the brand name. PAO in 3rd div or in bankruptcy is bad for Alafouzos' business and for Dimitris'. Maybe they're playing a game to force creditors, perhaps the gov (for OAKA), and players to accept less. They'll need to keep the team safe and do as well as possible in the Greek cup. No to harp on old arguments, it was many years ago when I was saying in this forum that Greek football is being killed by the people involved. The damage may be too much now to recover, because a whole generation of youngsters never truly identified with a team. Besides there have been many more distractions for young people (and adults) so football is not one of the few sports or activities available like it was when I was going up. The sport if it survives will have to be entertaining to attract viewers... But, with hooliganism, bad players, horrible officiating, corruption, and unplayable fields, there's no attraction. The gap with the Euro teams is getting bigger. Only gavroi have managed to still be competitive but they have a bigger budget than all the other Greek teams combined. So, it's no surprise that you see two-digit ticket sales in many games. It's not sustainable.

Three years in 3rd division and kiss this club goodbye. All the better players will leave and if the club continues, then it'll be just any other struggling club. Alafouzo saved the club from going to 3rd division years ago, but he's been one of the most incompetent owners ever. He wasted 40 mil. of his own money too. But, if he leaves the club without finding anyone to take over, he better leave Greece too.

This morning he announced that he's pulling out as PAO has 80 mil. debt. This doesn't look good at all for the club.

Well, Greece controls its future, and it has a very doable schedule ahead. It would have been nice to be withing 3 points of Belgium since they have to play in Greece next match, but finishing second still gives Greece a chance to advance to the World Cup. I also think Zeca was a great addition. He was everywhere against the Bosnians.

Just for the record, PAO won the double after defeating OSFP 3-2 in the league's playoffs. I haven't watched a more exciting game this season than game 5 when Panatha went to gavroi home to beat them by 15 points and win the title. Just a few weeks ago, everybody was upset about the team being shut out from the Final 4 and how Oly was such a better team.... Well, Oly didn't win anything this season, and PAO won the double. In the 5 games for the championship, PAO was clearly the better team. It lost 2 games because they lost focus not because they were vastly outplayed. A well-deserved title. Back on the throne after 2 years....

I happened to follow the events in the 1990s regarding Skopje. Mitsotakis was realistic in wanting a name with the word "Slavo" in it. The region had the name "Macedonia" in Yugoslavia and Greece hadn't objected, so when Yugo broke apart, the Skopjans kept the name. It's been decades since and the issue hasn't been resolved. It was Samaras who brought down Mitso' gov.

Panatha will win its final 2 games. Well, basically they just need not to finish last place, and they can beat Panionios to do that. If only we had Ouzounidis 1 year ago when Strama was given a high budget and the keys to the club............................

Berg will leave. He's fed up with the Greek reality and he thinks the team won't do anything spectacular any time soon. Making 5 mil ain't loose change; it's good money and I don't think Berg's value will go up. I also think it's better to get this money now and get a couple needed players, plus pay the salaries, because PAO needs internal peace. Unpaid players is bad for morale. I heard that Alafouzos is looking for a new owner to take over the club.

Man, you lost my most brilliant posts ever! The damage would have been worse if I hadn't disappeared for a month. [crazy busy at work, plus I'm selling my house and buying another one.... that's the plan anyway] Does the new update include the Stephen Hawking speech software?

^^^^ I'll repeat, I was young and I got old waiting for this to happen. Back in the early 2000s, we were talking about the Votanikos's stadium about to be built and we wished it'd be ready by 2008 our club's 100th anniversary..... Well..... AEK should have never agreed to demolish their old stadium before getting a new one finished.

If I were advising Trump to score political points, I'd say drop a few bombs here and there, because it polishes the commander-in chief credentials, and many American respect strong presidents. Many Dems came out supporting punishing Assad. This action can be used to show that Trump can oppose Putin (for show of course), and it takes the focus away (even if temporary) from other problems this administration is having. As to Trump, he never had a serious understanding of world affairs; he just spoke in great platitudes and generalities, most criticizing Obama and Clinton. He changes his views as he goes. NATO was obsolete until a couple weeks ago, now it is not. Trying to remove dictators was a bad idea, now?... Fareed Z is right by the way.

Have you seen this movie before? I know I have..... and it sucks. I support various teams in several sports and most of the times they are not doing well. I can deal with that. But, what bothers me to high hell is when my team, like PAO, beats their main opponents but lose the title. This season PAO got more points against Oly, PAOK, AEK. Many seasons we'd win handily if the league was of the top 5-6 teams, but of course we didn't, because we drop the most points to lesser teams. Very frustrating. ΑΝΑΛΥΤΙΚΑ Η ΒΑΘΜΟΛΟΓΙΑ ΤΩΝ ΝΤΕΡΜΠΙ 2016-2017. This includes the latest PAOK-PAO (3-0) when we didn't care and had only 2 regular starters on the squad. Εντός Εκτός Σύνολο Ομάδα Ν Ι Η ΓΚΟΛ Ν Ι Η ΓΚΟΛ Ν Ι Η ΓΚΟΛ Βαθμοί Παναθηναϊκός 2 1 0 2-0 1 0 2 3-8 3 1 2 5-8 10 ΠΑΟΚ 3 0 0 6-0 0 0 3 1-6 3 0 3 7-6 9 Ολυμπιακός 3 0 0 8-1 0 0 3 0-4 3 0 3 8-5 9 ΑΕΚ 2 0 1 6-3 0 1 2 0-4 2 1 3 6-7 7

Do you mean, PAOK-PAO?