athinaios

You've got to win this one. I think if any team is going to challenge gavroi this year it has to win the derbies, because we all know we drop points here and there often to lesser teams that gavroi don't.

The last 2 years PAO drew teams that could easily have beaten and advance to the CL or at least the Europa. I mean what teams do they expect to draw? But, this team has shrunk is any measurable way. Tzigger was the worst owner ever for PAO. Especially because he had the means ($$) and also didn't protect the team. Never before PAO got so few titles in a couple decades. As for Pateras and his buddies, they were big mouths and had lots of incompent people around them. OK, the brought Sisse and got us success for one year....They spent tens of millions of $ and the team had nothing to show for after a year..... They left the team with big contract players and the debts followed. When PAO was like AEK none of those big shots came to the club's rescue. If it weren't for Alafouzos and the fans PAO would have fallen to 3 division or worse.

Hungary, and other easter European leaders use specific code words to describe this wave of refugees as another invasion by Muslim, etc. Epic battles were fought in those lands between the Ottoman Turks and the local people a couple centuries ago.

I haven't seen the demographic data of this election yet. Those who want state jobs voted for Syriza (or any other gov party) want this to continue, but this has to change as it's been one of the causes of Greece's problems and since the Europeans demand that the Greek public sector shrinks considerably. I don't know what Syriza will do since Tsipras signed the new deal and personally promised to implement such reforms in order to get the latest bailout. This gov has 155 out of 300 but I believe there are still people within the majority coalition that will not agree to the tough measures that must be taken according to the memorandum.

This is one was a weird election. It was clear to all that no matter who won certain policies would take place. No choosing a new directions or anything. Voters know Tsipras lied and wasted precious time while costing the country some $20 billion. But, in the absence of an alternative, they voted for him again hoping he may do some domestic reforms on the margins. I think people are tired of traditional political parties and their long-serving politicians. I also think in the absence of any credible alternative, Tsipras was the only one standing. But, what Greeks really want is another story. The left, center, and right in Greece have been statist, advocating for a large public sector, special privileges to all sorts of interest groups, etc. It's an interesting split personality phenomenon: blaming/hating the state (gov) but also expecting it to solve everyone's problems, all of them. The political parties play on this stage....

I said similar things about him back in the summer when his transfer was announced. I asked why a great player goes from a better team to a worse one to an even worse one? You figure it out. Also, for me, given what had transpired in the last season and PAO's goals, earning a spot in the CL or at minimum in Europa was essential. So bad planning to get someone, so expensive, and not being able to use them until October!!!! The club does not have a good manager.... As for Trianta.... Shame. Your free time ain't exactly free. All pro club players have clauses in their contracts that they have to keep fit, avoid other sports (to prevent injury), etc. If someone's behavior affects their performance, then there should be consequences. Also, it may be legal to do something, it doesn't mean it's ethical or prudent. I would want to create a club culture that brings people together, that they care, and help each other, and are willing to help the team, while they realize what team they have the honor of playing for. Internal culture matters very much in every institution, club, country, etc

I agree. Obviously there are some players who handle the ball well, are football thinkers as they read the game well and act upon. But, who's the best? I don't think there's an answer unless you define precisely what this "best" means. Here are some factors. So, who's greater in these circumstances? great player, but team, never wins anything. Plenty of examples of such players not very technical but strong and his personality lifts the team to greatness different eras, different styles of football; the physical aspect alone would make a huge difference. A mediocre player today who's conditioned 100% would frustrate any "old timer" many of which were semi-amateurs... and when the training was not as scientific as it is today. the opposition has changed, in power and intensity, and strategy. Harder to do the stuff of the past on the pitch today. Keeping those things in mind, I think Messi has to be at the very top (I can't say "the best" for the reason I stated), because he's very diverse, and has done great in very hard competitive leagues.

The Ethiopian traffic got funnier when I noticed that pedestrians actually crossed that crazy intersection! :lol:

Those players who are good and think can go to a better team aren't motivated playing for a team that's going nowhere! Marcus is frustrated. I don't blame him if he wants to leave. With Anastasiou & company what is PAO going to do? The club has reached its ceiling and it's the same story for 2.5 years now. Anastasiou had 2 weeks to prepare for the Panionios match. Ouzounidis read him 100%. Blocked Berg and PAO got 2 chances for goal in 90' Berg knows football and sees what the coach is doing (or not doing properly). I don't know what Berg thinks nor do I know what goes on inside the club. But, I played the game and in general I do know success breeds confidence and makes you produce the extra effort, whereas failures are demoralizing and everything & everybody are affected. Hard to find motivation if you have no confidence in the coach, and/or you think the team isn't going anywhere (given the expectations). Then you start saying, let me hold back a bit to protect myself... it's not worth killing myself over this.... It's basic human psychology. In a highly competitive game, inches, or fractions of a second make a big difference. How? Well, by running a little harder, putting your foot or you body out to block a shot, fighting for the ball, being motivated.... Now multiply this by 11 players on the pitch and the game takes a very different course.... ;) Obviously not all goals are preventable, but ... You see how so may goals PAO conceded because one or more PAO players weren't putting 100% of effort. Now, go down by a goal or miss a good chance or don't create chances because of lack of effort, and the game is lost. It's as simple as that.

Games like this one is where a team wins titles. But, if you lose to Gabala and Panionios then you're not a good team. Shame. Very disappointed, but not surprised. I don't remember seeing a game since last season where I said, it's fun to watch this team. All of us hoped for the best, but... :xxx:

I bet we'll win this game one way or another, because everybody knows the title is demanded by the fans now after the ridiculous show in euro play. Bad planning. Also, I read Dabizas's interview the other day, and there was a problem with the medical/training staff. Clubs must have a great team behind the playing team due to the demands of the modern game. I'm skeptical why we have so many injuries so early in the season or why PAO has been getting people who have injuries. Anyway, the years when we beat Panionios we seem to do well. I never liked that team. They always play us dirty, especially at Nea Smyrni.

Thanks for this. Very interesting. I was surprised to see that 1/3 of the PK are not converted. So, for every 2 goals there's 1 missed attempt. I'd have guessed the conversion rate would have been much higher.

If you're saying that the thread is/gets smarter because of personal attacks, or incendiary comments, then you're confusing being passionate about something and keeping it civil--as this forum's rules stipulate. We're trying to keep this a nice place to have a conversation not a place for a bar fight..... which is eventually what happens if left unchecked. Oh, yeah, having "passionate opinions" doesn't give anyone the right to destroy. Live your uncontrolled passions at the door, gentlemen. This goes for all: Yes, it's everyone's right to think and say whatever they want... in the appropriate time and place though. If anyone feels so passionate that want to destroy a place, well, this is ain't the place to do it. Curse, fight, destroy, and stink up your own house or the houses of people who may allow you into their houses. Not here! In simple terms, the answer to these questions is "yes": does my post contribute to the discussion? is it appropriate for the topic and place? do I use language that's respectful of other members? does my post & my behavior make this a nice place to hang around? (nice for the community not the provocateur) Next steps, besides the warnings, include not being able to post until mods approve your posts, and banning the offending member.

OK. This is a good, nicely-stated argument within the forum's decorum here. Now to respond.... Greek sports fans have done worse and for what?!! It's often a media and public frenzy about an event that conveniently forget the big picture. For example, recently some American doctor went for a safari in Africa and killed Cecil the lion. My goodness the outrage, the media coverage, and mobilization of groups, etc. First, the issue of lion-killing for sport is complicated (this is not the place to debate it), but second, I don't think anyone would have noticed if an American killed an African while visiting/vacationing Africa. Oh, the funds raised for the preservation of lions but how about the millions of humans who die of malaria? (not to mention other preventable causes) I happen to agree with you about the problems of large immigration waves. I've said so in this thread. But,we disagree about how to handle them and what becomes of them once in a country. European leaders should be leaning hard on the Arab and Muslim countries to take these refugees. This includes Turkey. IF this is an existential threat, impose sanctions, like they do on a country that threatens the EU or dumps people and products into the EU. But, it's not humane to gun them down, starve or drown them.

Dear friends, This is a hotly-debated issue, but it has escalated to insults. This will not be tolerated here. No personal attacks and no calling anyone "filth" or other derogatory names. I'll go back through this thread and start deleting plus ..awarding yellow cards. Damn it. This is not how I want to spend my time on my day off.

Look, scenes like that don't help the immigrants' cause. Through selected videos out of context or without all the relevant facts are pften used to incite. Personally, I condemn such acts, though these scenes are rather ..mild by comparison..... Also, it's not "those Muslims".... Xtians, including Greeks, have done things like that, even riots much worse than what this video shows. Have you forgotten deadly and destructive soccer riots?!! Those Greek fans from all Greek clubs have done worse and not because they wanted ..bread, or water, etc.

Unless conditions improve in those war-torn, poor countries, there will always be illegal immigration, so it's in the interest of the wealthier countries to be proactive in foreign policy with long-term vision. In the near future, the changing weather & environment will produce more refugees. The Middle East is getting drier, whereas with the rising of the oceans countries like Bangladesh are going to lose much of their land. Now, what do you do with those who are risking life to enter a country? Shoot them? Drown them? Arrest them and keep them locked up until they starve to death? I'm amazed that so many.. good, devout, pius, Xtians with apprarently the love of Jesus in their hearts, are saying just that! The other problem is integration. I recognize that very different cultures are clashing. When newcomers arrive in big numbers, they establish their own communities where they try to preserve their own culture which is often very different than their natives'. Conservative Islam is a problem in most western societies. It's difficult to eradicate its influence but not impossible. There should be no Sharia (law), and women should have the rights and protections of civil liberties & the law. Compulsory public education is a must. Any terrorist activity or threats of violence (I don't care for what reason) must be grounds for immediate expulsion or other severe civil penalties. Unfortunately, some of the Xtian churches are in favor of any religious law and their own "independence" from the secular (evil) state. Even in Britain the idiot leader of the Anglican church is OK with Saria, which allows Islamic "courts" to adjudicate! Female genital mutilation is widespread in the ghettos of Muslim communities in Europe, not to mention other mistreatment of Muslim women. This must stop. Speaking of ghettos, the more separation there's the more difficult to integrate and, thus, difficult reduce the influnce of traditional/conservative religious practices. Young people and those born to immigrants should have a way to integrate and to find economic opportunity outside their own communities. If this happens--as it has in the US--you'd be amazed to see these new immigrants becoming more patriotic than the natives. Btw, did you see the black kid who almost died getting into Greece a few years ago, now being the highest scorer in the university exams? The modern state was built on notions of citizenship and nationalism, and thus created patriots! (forget the movies, before the modern state, there was no patriotism as peope's allegiance wasn't with the country but with their clan, tribe, and their religion--like Afghanistan is today). If you have a stake/interest in the country, they you are a patriot citizen. So, the task is to make the new immigrants have a stake in their newly-adopted ..country.

I'm not sure how accurate polling is in Greece, but several are showing the ND-Syriza gap gone, and in a couple, ND is ahead by a whisker. This may reveal a trend, which in politics is very important. If the debates don't change this momentum, then you'll be surprised by the outcome of this election. Another thing I'm looking at is the % that answers the question, which party do you think will win (regardless of how you'll vote). It used to be Syriza by a big number, but now this is almost gone. Again, this is an important indicator. Of course there are many "undecideds"..... But, they don't break for one party usually, so don't put them in your favorite column yet. Actually most of them follow the trend/momentum. By the way, it's strange the polling is forbidden in the last days before an election. Weird "logic" if there's such....

It's sad, in my opinion, that there aren't good alternatives right now. Tsipras lied, proved to be incompetent and unprepared. The old guard (ND, PASOK, traditional left) are all worn out and with no credibility. The other splinter parties are opportunistic with no real chance to push for anything. This clown Kamenos of the "Anexartitoi Ellines" was against the "mnemonio" but once he was asked to be part of Tsipras' gov he changed his tune. There are no good choices for Greece right now, because it dug a big hole for itself. Everyone is responsible, govs and people alike. It has a political culture of the early last century. I wouldn't know whom to vote for right now. What do you want to happen? I mean given the realities of the situation.... What can the next government do?

:lol: :lol: :lol: Thank you! I need that! I've been steaming this evening and I needed to laugh. PS>I wish PAO had lost to Man U 0-5 tonight. Why? Because this would be more respectable than 2-2 and out.... Also, this would mean that PAO would have gotten good $$$$ for playing a famous team like Man U, AND, and, PAO would be going to Europa!!

I don't know if this team can win the league. This defeat can be much worse than not going into the Europa. So, let's say by a miracle they win the domestic title. They'll still have to qualify to go to the CL next year. For the last 2 years, they drew very, very favorably. I mean what do you expect? Gabala? OK, they got a nobody of a team. Couldn't frikin pass that one either. The same with the national team, very favorable group, but if you lose to Faroe Islands twice you're not a serious team. Second, if your plan is to play in Europe you bring players that can help you immediately, to qualify for euro play!!! Whatever they spent for Essien (who I said may be here to retire) they could have gotten back and more by advancing into Europa if not play at least another 2 games (as Brugge did against Man U). Even if Essien is good or whomever they aren't really interested in the crappy Greek league if there's no hope for euro play. Unless of course they come to cruise to retirement. Frankly, I don't care to see Essien doing fantastic tricks against Levadiakos or Platanias. Oly has gotten tens of millions of $$ by automatically qualifying for the CL all these years, plus they have an owner who has more $ than all the rest of the league. It's easier to attract worthy players who play well in europe matches while they struggle to maintain their interest when they play in crappy league on even crappier fields. So, for years PAO has been bringing in players who don't really give a s%$#! nor do they know the history of the club. And, it'll get harder to attract quality players.

Thanks Reaper for the stat sheet. We were outclassed by a smaller team. I also agree with Val about Dabizas, etc.

Alafouzos isn't a soccer guy. His responsibility is to pick the coach and good advisers. Unfortunately there's noone else besides Alafouzos to guide the club. Anastasiou should resign. He did a great job rescuing the team from the bottom, but it's obvious he's reached his upper limit. Bad planning too. Spend money for what? It's the euro play that brings you recognition, points, and money. For the domestic league they only needed a couple more players (could have gotten them from other Greek teams), and a better approach to not wasting points against lesser teams. Maybe we should realize that the ceiling for this team is the domestic cup... :( (maybe)

One of our worst Euro nights, considering the opposition. Now back to the chicken coop fighting with other cocks for chicken s%$#!.

PAO has become a very small team. At least they should get players that can string 3-4 passes together. I'd sell everyone except Berg and Steele