Tactics!

[DUDE]

Man City got their 1st away win of the season against in form Aston Villa winning 3-1. Man City were superb and Samaras got 2 assists. The first assist was a carbon copy of the goal Patsa got against Bosnia, the second he played a neat 1-2 with Distin who outpaced the defender and scored. Samaras looked like a class act throughout and I have to say he confirmed, imo, my analysis of him. When the team is playing well and he has players running beyond him he is excellent. He's clever, has vision and shows class throughout. HOWEVER, he needs those players running beyond him. In a team like Arsenal for example he'd be excellent because he'd have options and he thinks/sees the game beautifully. He lacks pace though and is very lazy so in a team that doesn't have much going forward and relies on counter attacks he really doesn't fit, hence the reason he's ineffective for Greece or when Man City are not playing well.

So what's the answer? Well when you have a defensive team you need your strikers to work within that balance. For example, having someone like Henry who can't head a ball in a long-ball team just doesn't work, doesn't mean Henry isn't good but the balance won't work. So what does work?

1) Well Greece are a defensive team that have no width and not alot of pace. So I'd go with 2 hard-working strikers. 1 who is good in the air the other who is quick and/or has good movement. That way your team is solid and physical throughout and playing with ALOT of crosses into the box! An example of this is last season's Bolton, very physical, constantly looking to put the ball into the box and had Kevin Davies and Stelios up front. This could work for us imo with Papadopoulo and Salpi.

2) Another method would be to get width and pace in the team, that would mean we'd need players like Patsa or Seitaridis pushed to right wing and Lagos or Castillo on the left. Then we could play one passer/playmaker, i.e. Samaras or Lybe, and another pacy striker, Salpi, or Amanatids. Personally I don't think we are good enough to play this system, (reminiscent of Arsenal's style of play),

3) BUT if instead of having a quick striker to partner the playmaker we had an aerial player then it could work in a 4-3-3 system with 1 target man, much like Olympiakos play. The reason it doesn't work for Olympiakos in the CL is because the defence is a joke, Greece is much more solid. The problem here however, is that Greece doesn't have top quality target man like Konstantinou. So we either try this system with Papa (who is excellent in the air but not quite the beast that Konstantinou is, which is needed for this style), Charistea or find another target man... any suggestions?

4) Another method a defensive team can play is with 2 target men with pace that like to spread to the wings (like West Ham), we don't have the players for this system.

5) The whole team is transformed to play with LOTS of pace. That would mean a promoting Pappas for a try, with a team of:

-------------------------------------------Nikopolidis----------------------------------------

Patsa-------------------------Kapsis/Dellas----------------Kyriakos----------------Lagos

Seitaridis--------------------Katsouranis---------------Basinas-------------------Castillo

---------------------------------Pappas--------------------Salpi----------------------------

This is ambitious and would fulfill many people's wants here who want to see more youth involved, personally I think that this team lacks experience and would ultimately fail.

6) Finally there is the Chelsea system where there is one target man and bursts from the midfield, we don't have the players for this system either. We need Charisteas fit and back to his best which I can't see happening.

So for that reason I'd go for the options 1, 2, or 3.

However, I would like to see more of: Lagos, Salpi and Papadopoulos and would also like to see the introduction of Tziortziopoulos, Zikos, Hilarios Pappas, Papasththopoulos and if he becomes eligible Castillo. I'm not suggesting that tese players should be starting or even featuring constantly in competitive games (although Zikos and Castillo would prob get in the team), but I'd like to see them playing friendlies, games that we may have already won, etc.

Please comment and give your opinions. And no (I don't want foreigners like Castillo, etc, please, we already have a post for that so let's just talk tactics.)

[Athens4]

Nikopolidis; Georgeas/Seitaridis, Kyriakos, Anatolakis, Patsa; Katsouranis, Karagounis, Basinas; Castillo; Gekas/Samaras, Salpigiddis/Papadopoulos

Hows that?

[cyberfish]

Great post Ethnikisti,

I think our NT has established its character with great success, and I would be in favor of refining what has been successful instead of overhauling.

I am fairly certain that we don't have the personnel to play 4-3-3, and that we don't have wingers that can stretch the field with any authority.

I think your first system looks more promising to me. Play hard defense and take your chances up front with two strikers, one skilled with pace, and one with some height.

something like:

----------------Nikopolidis---------------

Seitaridis--Delas--Kyriakos---Fyssas

Gianakopoulos--Katsouranis--Basinas--Lagos

------Salpigidis/Gekas-----Papadopoulos-----

Unfortunately, some of this is wishfull thinking. Fyssas is well beyond his prime, but he is still the best Greek LFB with no substitute in sight. Lagos from what I've seen of him can't defend very well, and unfortunately he can't even crack the AEK lineup as a midfielder.

Unfortunately, while our midfielders are excellent defenders, we don't have the creative one who can feed two forwards, or who can move the ball with authority.

Also, Gianakopoulos is the only player on the team that can stretch the field, but he can't keep a constant pace an entire game any longer, and I don't see a worthy replacement that can play on the line (left or right).

I think our NT can play a nice tight game without wingers (even though they are much in fashion). Our first priority should be to find a worthy replacement for Fyssa. If I were Rehagel I would try Patsatzoglou as a LFB. He is a good defender and has enough skill to push forward if he can stay healthy.

A second (and probably more realistic) lineup could look like this:

------------------Nikopolidis---------------

Seitaridis------Delas----Kyriakos----Fyssas

----Basinas---Katsouranis---Karagounis/Lagos

-------Lyberopoulos------Papadopoulos----

---------------------Gekas----------------

This formation looks more realistic to me with the players we have. A 4-5-1 with Gekas up front because he is quick, he is strong, he is good in the air (one main advantage over Salpigidis), and he can score. Katsouranis in the middle of the field can sweep in front of the stoppers and both Lyberopoulos and Papadopoulos can be creative in the midfield and can score when opportunity arises.

This formation has the added advantage of being very flexible on offense. When the ball is up front we have three capable strikers. When we defend we have three very good DMs and at least one forward who presses in all areas (pap). With this formation we also have three forwards who can play the high balls and who can score both in the air and on the ground. Lybe and Pap are also excellent passers.

That's what I would do if I were Rehagel.

The main skeleton of the team I would not alter:

------------------Nikopolidis---------------

Seitaridis------Delas----Kyriakos----11111

----Basinas---Katsouranis---22222

-----------333333------4444444----

---------------------Gekas----------------

for 11111 = man, no idea who will replace Fyssas when he retires in a few months. I don't think Lagos is a good defender.

for 22222 = Lagos, Karagounis, Tziolis, Kafes in that order

for 33333 = Lyberopoulos, Gianakopoulos (a little closer to the line), Samaras (when we need more attacking power)

for 44444 = Amanatidis, Samaras, Gianakopoulos

for Gekas = Salpigidis would be a good change of pace, and both Lybe and Pap can spell him when needed.

My whole thinking here revolves around the good reports we get from Gekas' play in Germany. If he somehow stops playing well, I would put Salpigidis in as the starting striker. Also another key here is Katsouranis as as sweeper in front of the stoppers.

Some good players would be left out from the starting lineup, but there is always opportunity to play, to impress, and to become a starter. Samaras for example could be a good substitute for either Lyberopoulos or Papadopoulos (I mean he could start instead of them, or he can come in the game at any point). Salpigidis could also be a good player to replace Gekas in certain games.

Well, that's my 2 cents for what's worth.

[JohnnyTheGreek]

We definitely have a problem with the strikers, namely that the age range is too great.

Lymbe is a pure goal machine but only when he's fed the ball properly. So is Samaras. Neither of these two work for the goal, although they have enough skill to create opportunities for others WHEN THERE ARE OTHERS IN THE BOX. I also don't think that there's anybody else on the team who's as good in the air as Lymbe. The major problem is that he's pushing 31 now, and will we really want to send him into '08 at 33 years old?

On the plus side, he's getting tonnes of first team action, and lots of CL action.

I've never understood the purpose of a 4-4-2 as a purely defensive formation. One or both of the center MFs should be directly behind the strikers not only for passing, but for decent long-range shooting opportunities.

To hell with Charisteas. He's washed up at 27 already, and most of the Dutch and German teams know it--this may seem harsh to those who insist on holding the Euro trophy up like some kind of talisman when they need to ward criticism towards the guy, but face facts; he's not at match fitness right now, and doesn't look to be heading towards it in the near future. His confidence is at an all-time low, but we don't need a cherry picker.

Bolton have relegated Stelios to a bench-warmer since the arrival of Anelka (and even a bit before), and I doubt he's match-fit, either. Which is really crazy when you consider how good a season he had last year!

Gekkas as one of the central mids--possibly. He's a total clutz, but as you said before, a workhorse. We would need somebody to keep up at top speed, and he's shown he can do it. Katsouranis would balance him out as a playmaker and as an extra defender.

The next year will be crucial for Tziortsiopoulos and Lagos--if they want NT spots, they'll have to stop letting their nerves get the best of them.

[jarvis1981]

My thoughts are that whatever formation Otto goes with it has to benefit the midfield the most as it was having alot of problems against France.

I realize France is a top team but the midfield had problems stringing 3 passes together.

Perhaps the 3-5-2 is the solution so they have more short outlets to pass to. That's asking the defense to do more than it's share but it is capable of doing just that.

Samaras must stay at forward. I would replace him with a faster forward once Greece has the lead and it's in the 2nd half. The faster forward can run after the opposition forcing them to hurry their play and should the opposition get in too close a breakaway type effort might be forthcoming.

[thrylos]

Greece has the players to succeed with this formation. This formation might be the only one that makes them succeed in tough matches where the oposition is superior.

------------------------goalie

left back------------centerback-----------right back

----------def. center mid----def. center mid

left mid---------attacking center mid---------right mid

------------striker----------------striker

So in essence you are playing a 3-2-3-2