greece Macedonia Name Dispute

[Hudson]

I do not discount the feelings of people(s)....  They have a right to feel anyway they want, but such feelings may be based on erroneous knowledge! 

Many people want to claim a special relation to someone great, because they themselves can feel better/great by ..association.

But, why is association important? Does it mean they have special qualities that were transmitted through the ether, or DNA? Are others, not related or associated with the great (μεγας) person somehow inferior?

Can the non-associates acquire the special qualities another way?.... Like through education (ideas) or emulation (practicing the principles)...

Say a random person came to us and asked to be venerated, worshiped, liked, be given authority and glory.... and, that they asked for such benefits because they could prove that their great grandfather was one the most brilliant persons that ever walked this planet...

What would be your response?....

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by Hudson

[Bashibozuk]

What would be your response?....

1) In my book, reasonable people say "Prove it!"

2) Reasonable people accused of a crime say "Prove it!"

3) Reasonable people dragged to a civil court say "Prove it!"

4) As far as know, Greece does not plan to move its northern borders farther north!

5) It is easy to prove that neighbors' theories about the  Macedonians are ludicrous

6) We sabotage our ourselves with own and often mumbo jumbo theories.  Some of the neighbors are neither dumb nor illiterate. 

7) My mother told me that I should listen and not talk with one exception:  Suicidal car-drivers must be persuaded to park the car at the closest, safely reachable, safe spot.

[Bashibozuk]

The Macedonia-maniacs may wish to read a NEA article under the headline “ Θύελλα αντιδράσεων για τη «μακεδονική μειονότητα» - Πυρ ομαδόν κατά της κυβέρνησης”.

Apparently the BBC presented the "Slav-Macedonians” as an invisible and oppressed minority in Greece.

According to the report …. Greece implicitly acknowledged the existence of "Macedonian language and ethnicity". Yet she declined the existence of the "Macedonian minority" for decades.

In the context of the report, the BBC spoke with Mr Fokas, "his mother tongue is" Macedonian ", a Slavic language related to Bulgarian and has been talking for centuries in this part of the Balkans. In his son's modern house in a village in northern Greece, leads me to the painful history of the unrecognized Slavic minority of Greece. "

Mr. Fokas self-designates himself as "Macedonian" and Greek. As he claims, for almost a century, the Macedonians in Greece have been subject to suspicion and have been persecuted "even though their presence was not accepted by almost anyone."

"Most are reluctant to talk to strangers about their identity. For themselves and others, they are simply known as "locals," who speak a language called "local" (dopya). They are completely absent from the textbooks of school history, they have not appeared in the 1951 censuses (when they were simply recorded as "Slavic language") and their existence is not publicly reported. Most Greeks do not even know their existence, "the report says.

ND and KINAL are concerned and ND called on Alexis Tsipras "to do today the obvious: to clarify directly, categorically and in all directions that" a national Macedonian minority "does not exist in Greece". …....

The response of Mr Tsipras can be summarized as while everything is OK, the ND and KINAL claim that the sky is falling.

He also added that "the Prespa Agreement eliminates any margin for raising a minority issue".

 

[Bashibozuk]

Interesting news appear today at the NEA and in the article

Σκόπια προς ΟΗΕ: Είμαστε «Μακεδόνες», μιλάμε «Μακεδονικά», τα προϊόντα μας είναι «Μακεδονικά»

or, for the Anglophiles:  Skopje to the UN: We are "Macedonians", we speak "Macedonian", our products are "Macedonian"

The problem is that it is suggested to note, inter alia, the use of the aggressive term "Macedonian" or "Macedonian" to refer to all official bodies of the neighboring state, but also to private entities not receiving a financial grant from the Skopje state for which enshrine the use of the term "Macedonian" or "Macedonian".

The same is what the Skopjans ask for and their trade names and trademarks (trade names, trademarks, and brand names).

Skopjans are calling on the UN for the aggressive determination to agree to the official or short name of their country. The impressive is that despite the fact that they refer to the two definitions "Republic of Northern Macedonia" and "Northern Macedonia", they also establish the pure "Macedonian" or "Macedonian".

This requirement is legitimized by Article 7 (3) of the Prespa Agreement, in which Greece agreed that the term "Macedonia" and "Macedonian" means the territory, the language, the population and their characteristics.

My comment: While we were concerned for the ethnicity of the Alexander the drunkard, the neighbors were picking our pocket. I guess that Oscar had the patriots in mind when he wrote

Yet each man kills the thing he loves, 

By each let this be heard,
Some do it with a bitter look,
Some with a flattering word,
The coward does it with a kiss,
The brave man with a sword!

 

[Bashibozuk]

My impression is that in normal countries there is the government and the State. The latter has diplomats, economists and international law experts. Before one signs an agreement, one must have its experts (inside and outside the state) to check the agreement one intends to sign. I wonder if

a) the government was helped by experts and if not, why.

b) What was/is the role of the other parties and particularly the role of ND? Does it have access to any experts? If not, how will it be to govern, if it is elected? If it does, why it failed to point these weaknesses to the Greek parliament?

Is it necessary that the Greek government must as a burlesque troupe? Apparently, it is.

Many years back Mitsotakis-father and Kiro Gligorov had a friendly discussion. Kiro suggested that his country could have two names. One used inside the country and another for use out of his country. Mitsorakis stated that this was the craziest proposal he ever heard. Kiro Gligorov then informed Mitsotakis that there is a country that is called Hellas inside and Greece (or similar) outside.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Bashibozuk
Orthography

[Bashibozuk]

The Microsoft supports a keyboard named Macedonian (FYROM) - Standard.  

[Bashibozuk]

Today I used Google to find the Slavic equivalent of wet nurse.  The answer came back and over the answer one could read Macedonian!   Well, sometimes, the other fellows win.  What can one say?  As usual, the patriots could choose between the bad and the worse and grabbed the worse.

[Guest]

Tsipras the fool visiting Skopia and posing for selfies with Zaev what a disgrace.