Illegal Immigration In Greece (and In Europe)

[RED SHERIFF]

I was being partly sarcastic...

 

and partly serious....

 

its not about if these types can become rich and live in affluent suburbs..

they can be used in roles and jobs especially rural areas to stimulate the economy and growth

 

greece needs to stimulate the agricultural sector....... these types of immigrants have been have been useful in many places...

[Tzatziki]

It does not matter who you trust, who are you to deny these people?

[Tzatziki]

That's the question I keep asking Saudi Arabian princes, the very nation that exports the Jihadi interpretation of Islam through the teachings of Saudi Wahhabism which created ISIS and this mess. Who are they to deny these people the thousands of normally uninhabited air conditioned tents they set up for the Hajj pilgrimage? Does Qatar or any of the other Arab country supporting ISIS not realize there are millions of displaced people whom they can take in as slaves? I thought the corrupt, evil families that own those countries love slave labor. Israel isn't taking them in either. In fact Israel threatens migrants from Africa with prison sentences.

 

I'll tell you what I think, the Saudi princes, along with their allies who created this mess, can pay Greece and Greece can then build a temporary concentration camp for the "Syrians." Once Assad has regained control of Syria from ISIS, we can send the military deserters (on Saudi Arabia's dime of course) back to Syria where I'm sure they'll be welcomed back with the sort of sympathy we have shown them.

 

I would not use Saudi Arabia as some sort of example to try to emulate, let alone visit, live in or support.

[Tzatziki]

who are you to suggest that these non-assimilating migrants are entitled to what europeans have created, nurtured, cultivated, bled for and funded? 

 

they are entitled to kaka, to kopria.

 

they are viewed by those who want them in europe as cheap labor. the cheaper, the better.

 

What I am trying to say is that it is wrong for people to be denied the right to move freely as they wish. 

 

Also it is inhumane to reject or not help out all these people fleeing the hell that is war. 

[Tzatziki]

Your home, your car, your belongings are personal property, vast land masses are not and should not be. 

 

Saudi Arabia should be held accountable, but change is earned, it needs to come from within for the most part.

[Tzatziki]

Thankfully, it's not your decision to make. I can't begin to imagine the plight of these displaced people.

[Tzatziki]

dis

[King_Katsouranis]

What I understood form this thread is ThrylosG7 is happy to accept Orthodox Christians.

Open up the border to the Ethiopian Orthodox Christians!!!

[King_Katsouranis]

I agree with you on economic refugees, they have no right to be anywhere near Greece or Europe.

However, with the displaced Syrians it's a completely different situation. As much as I don't like immigration, in conflicts like Syria  every country has to play some part in helping people out by accepting ACTUAL refugees. If you tow  the Christian line, you have accept refugees otherwise it can be perceived you are picking and choosing

Christian values to suit your political point.

[King_Katsouranis]

Reaper, if from the mix you can choose people that suit the values better - fine.  BUT lets assume Greece couldn't, thats not an excuse to not accept anyone. 

[King_Katsouranis]

Saudi Arabia in the context of broader Europe is irrelevant. (Not that I disagree with your point in general)

In the context of Europe, and the EU accepting a quota of migrants, Greece has to take some of the brunt rightly or wrongly. Taking a few thousand undesirables is probably a better trade off than losing all the subsidies and benefits of being in the EU.

[King_Katsouranis]

Unfortunately, it's a very real possibility.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/26/block-migrant-quotas-and-lose-eu-funding-eastern-europe-warned/

 

[King_Katsouranis]

Yes, but the problem is the blackmailing as pathetic the current situation it is can become disastrous. Especially, when you have His Lordship of Incompetence Tsipras in charge of a country. It's not exactly confidence inspiring to have a bloke who can't sense when to tow the line and when not to leading the Greek delegation. 

[Korisos]

Turn away every single unaccompanied Muslim male. If the Syrian is a Christian AND with a family then look into accepting them but no guarantees. This strategy should weed out thieves, rapists and terrorists masquerading as "refugees". 

 

Most of the "refugees" are men of military age who instead of staying home to fight for their country decide to flee and fight border guards for illegal entry in the EU. 

 

They use children as bargaining chips since it's easier for children to obtain refugee status then the rest of the family floods in. Real lowlifes these people. 

 

 

[gyros]

I agree.  I will take Syrian Christians with a family but not taking Muslims.  Probably the worst people in the world.

[Tzatziki]

So sad to read a lot of these posts  :ph34r:

[Tzatziki]

Not only will we have to repent for the sins of bad people; but we also will have to repent for the appalling silence of good people.

[King_Katsouranis]

In all fairness if you think accepting 5- 10 000  endangered refugees is going to have any effect on the labour prices in Greece? There is downward pressure on labour prices in Greece by virtue of 25%  unemployment, which is exponentially more than the 5 - 10k refugees  coming into a country.  Why don't Scandinavian countries have cheap labour when they bear the brunt of the refugees (I'm in no way advocating their stance on taking in immigrants)? 


The elitist banker rhetoric is troubling. In the whole context of this argument  we have people being elitist by not wanting any refugees, but then at the same time they bitch about elitist bankers...

 

[King_Katsouranis]

The wealth and unit costs of labour in Scandinavia is proof that the labour costs argument is bollocks, there are other arguments for where people are getting screwed, but they don't involve refugees.  I think if you were to visit Scandinavia the lifestyle is just fine, there are a few shitholes, but that exists in every modern society. I can assure people still do whatever the hell they want and don't really fear their lifestyles being  destroyed. 

What makes you think the Orthodox Christians from Syria are going to integrate any better than any other Syrians? Especially when most Greeks aren't actually religious, it's just  a civil form of organisation.

 

[King_Katsouranis]

The  only difference there is  in your first point is religion. What if someone muslim by birth but doesn't practice religion, they are practically culturally similar. In fact they would have a better time integrating in Greece  compared to a devout Orthodox person as hardly anyone in Greece practices religion. 

I already addressed your point on wages. It's irrelevant what 5 - 10 000 refugees do, when there is 25% unemployment in Greece. There is enough downward pressure for them (refugees) to be statistically insignificant. 


Honestly mate what next is Putin going to lead the Russian and Ethiopian special forces to liberate Constantinople.

 

[gyros]

If you want cheap labor, then import a bunch of Chinese people who will work.  They come to Europe and their will be a ban on Souvlaki with how spineless Europe is.

[King_Katsouranis]

My  issue with your above post ..

 

1. No one hardly practices religion in Greece ?? I suspect there is far more than you think. 

 

Also What does that have to do with the integration of a devout orthodox into a country that 95% of people identify as Orthodox and who 90% of people say they attend church. Granted the graph below is 8 years old but i doubt that a further 50% have decided not to attend church in the last 8 years. 

 

 

Now lets compare that to a Non practicing Muslim as you claim would integrate easier....and 

 

lets be real how many of those male refugees do you really think there are in the masses of Middle aged men that are no practicing Muslims lol 

 

i think 10,000 is the most that a country like Greece should be able to handle - Greece needs to look after its own first as well . 

 

Its not just about Greece this is a plan to flood all of Europe - however if they can bring down Greece to even lower levels why not. The EU dont want ethnic and cultural diversity. 

 

Regarding Putin - i dont buy the take back the Poli m*****es . My views on him we can debate in another topic.

The religion question is not so simple, it's a cultural thing to go every now and then. I wouldn't classify myself as religious but I go every so often as well.  You're presenting that graph like people are religious in Greece, they definitely are not to the extent you claim. As per Gallup ( http://www.gallup.com/poll/13117/religion-europe-trust-filling-pews.aspx ) from 2004 the weekly church attendance in Greece is 27%, so maybe a third of the population actually give a s%$#! about religion since there are next to no accessibility  issues in Greece like there are in the diaspora.  That figure is also  probably now  lower, as religious observance is on a downward trend. Additionally, 12% of the Greeks don't identify as G.O, so probably less than 25% attend a GO church weekly. That tells me religion is not a big deal for most of the population.  

Whenever I am in Greece it dawns on me that our parents/grandparents generation hold onto religion and their views are really out of whack with their siblings that remained in Greece. 

I'm not arguing with the EU point, because Europe is moving towards one homogenous place. However, if a bunch ( 10k or less) of non practising muslims or even practising muslims come to Greece then it's not going to destroy the country like the doom merchants claim. It's quite simple Greeks will enforce Greek (not G.O) values on them, the same way they did with the Albanians. It's not like the Albanians have been a problem and unable to integrate, despite most of them being Islamic.  

 

[King_Katsouranis]

Albanians have not been a problem do you realise how much crime they are involved in ???? How old are you ?? do you remember what happened in greece when Albania beat Greece just after euro 2004 ?? 

 

have you seen the kids doing the Albanian eagle sign in the friiendly against Serbia - did you see our wonderful NT player Panagiotis Kone doing it as well...not to mention the malakes who are in the Greek army no less ?? 

 

I'm happy to show you pics...no mate Albanians, and muslims do not integrate well at all

They went out celebrating and a bunch of fascists had a go at them and it got wild.  Aren't people allowed to celebrate??? 

What is wrong with Kone? 

Serious question when was the last time YOU went to Greece? 

@ Reaper.

I genuinely think in this case it is different. A lot of the  Syrians who are moving are educated civil people that have been forced from their homes. Part of my point is, that an educated muslim who was a doctor or lawyer is probably less of an issue then a christian deadbeat.

Edited May 30, 2016 by King_Katsouranis

[gyros]

Exactly.  The people that are coming over to Europe are mouth breathing neanderthals.  The doctors and engineers are still in Turkey.  I read an article that said that two thirds of the refugees in Germany are illiterate.  The companies with job openings are finding them useless.  But I don't have a problem if they all go to Germany.  Just as long as they don't pollute Greece.

[King_Katsouranis]

Actually most are not educated or even bilingual. The professionals - ie normal educated syrians - are in massive refugee camps scattered across Lebanon, Turkey Jordan etc. No professional would stick his wife and child on a purposely sinking boat you have paid Turkish mafia 1000s of Euros for.. for an opportunity to drown.. Once they reach Greece the vast vast majority refuse to even give their names..so they can lie their way to germany..

 

These are not doctors and nurses.. these are young uneducated Pakistani and Syrian men who willing to risk their lives to get to germany.

 

 

I should have been a lot clearer. I'm talking about the Syrians that fled over the border in neighbouring countries going through the proper channel, and would arrive in Greece as part of this migrant deal . The point i'm trying to make is that they are probably muslims, BUT would actually be good citizens. Which is why its really important to do away with this Orthodox brotherhood s%$#!. The Serbs in fact are such good brothers they recognise the skops as Macedonia.