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Accor6

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Sheriff I agree but one thing is certain these "hooligans" are most of the time put up to destroying things, you may not believe it but most are organised and not only by the fan clubs but by people involved in football including owners.

 

Why haven't they closed the gavro club that was caught with heroin in there last week?

 

Seems rules apply to some but not to others. That club should be the FIRST one to be shut down.

 

assuming they are being put up to destroy things....no matter who is putting them up to it..nor how organised they may be... if the law was to punish them accordingly (serious jail time) they would decline the offer next time to act 'on orders'....

 

shut them ALL down...I don't care...  this debate is not colour blind.....(not for me anyway)

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Sheriff its not assumption it happens a lot of the time. From memory wasn't is Marinakis who got some "hardcore gate 7" fans to go cause fights at a 3rd division game few years back? That's one example only

 

I don't think they should be shut down unless they have broken laws (ok some do break laws but go unheard) but I don't see the harm in having a club where everyone gets together and watches a game together....

Edited by Original Sydney
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I give credit to the Oly club that made a post in favour of PAO and what has happened to them, in the end after all the hate & rivalry put aside we are ALL football fans and when 1 suffers, they will ALL suffer.

 

You know what I'd really love to see? All organized fans, peacefully demonstrating for a fair league. And, all agreeing that from now on, games should be a celebration of the sport where fans from both teams can attend a game!   And, they can do this without approval by anyone; just agree to co-exist in the stands, like other fans do in many other countries, like Britain and Spain.

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For some really strange reason, Greece makes the simple difficult and the achievable impossible.  Allocated seating where ID is required and cameras all over the place to catch culprits would end all this.  Individuals could be identified and at the very least, not allowed into stadiums again.  Instead, because this is apparently too hard to achieve, the EPO and government take the easier road of blaming and fining the clubs and gates.  How many people threw the lighter on the weekend ?  One.  So go get him.  Why should Olympiakos or any club for that matter pay for the stupidity of individual fans.

Edited by Bananas
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I believe it's cultural. It starts with no respect toward others. Anyone who knows Greece can tell you that its citizens have no respect for any law and of course no respect toward others. This "anarchy" is demonstrated everywhere, from how people drive, to throwing garbage everywhere, noise, etc. And, as we've seen with the new leftists, they are just as bad as using the state for patronage and corruption. I'd say 80% of Greeks are steeped in this kind of culture.

 

With no serious law enforcement, it has become a ..game to engage in violence.  This atmosphere has become the norm. The hooligans have harmed the sport and their own teams.

 

Of course, there are ways to keep them out. We're not trying to re-invent the wheel here. Other countries have done it.  But, in a system of general malaise, it's hard to do anything.

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Reaper, I get what you're saying about prosecuting the offender ... or the lack thereof. However, even if (as we fully expect) the judicial system doesn't do the job, the big question is, why do the clubs allow these individuals back into the stadium ? Why are the clubs themselves so enamoured with these "hooligans" ?

The clubs can if they want to slowly get rid of the trouble makers who I am sure are in the minority. But they choose not to, and for the life of me, I can't see why. If the clubs are waiting for the government to help, they'll be waiting a while. Better to take charge of your own house and get it in order I say.

Like I said, Greece, making the achievable impossible.

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Sheriff its not assumption it happens a lot of the time. From memory wasn't is Marinakis who got some "hardcore gate 7" fans to go cause fights at a 3rd division game few years back? That's one example only

 

I don't think they should be shut down unless they have broken laws (ok some do break laws but go unheard) but I don't see the harm in having a club where everyone gets together and watches a game together....

 

Edited by Accor6
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Demi tried exactly that and we saw the results. That is why Alafouzos and Marinakis are in bed with these groups. If the government was serious about basic law and order, the scene would change over night. In the UK, it is not the clubs that go after hooligans, it is the police and authorities who are paid by the taxpayer to enforce basic protection to the public from violent and unhinged individuals. The only time the clubs are involved is when the police tell them who to ban or when the police want access to their internal CCTV cameras.

 

I've always thought that the way Demi was treated was disgraceful.  Great player, great club man, the best.  As for seeing if the government can or wants to do the job or not, time will tell.  The point I was trying to make was that I find it surprising the clubs themselves don't clear out the trash.  Year after year after year, the clubs pay fines, and lose more revenue due to playing games without fans.  And yet, they still want these prezonia in their stadium ?  Truly odd.  I've got nothing against the average fan in Greece and I love the electric atmosphere during the derbies, but when you start throwing objects onto the ground or storm the pitch, hey, you've crossed the line.  Having said that, I gotta say if someone had thrown something onto Marinakis when he walked onto Leoforos, that would've been pretty cool.

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This is an interesting article (very long) about the history of violence in Greek sports:

http://www.contra.gr/Longread/via/ta-prwta-epeisodia-to-sok-me-mpliwna-kai-to-ksulo-se-zwntanh-metadosh.3869810.html

 

These kind of things one could witness in a under-developed country or a failed state.

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Apparently Dimitraki Giannakopoulo will be holding a presser tomorrow at OAKA. It will have nothing to do with basketball but rather PAE, KAE, and Erasitexni's reactions to Kontoni's recent actions against Gate 13... "Exoume na akousoume pola" says the president of KAE! Can't wait! B)

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Im all for these fan clubs but as soon as they throw objects onto the field and cause violence than thats where the line has been crossed. These fans bring atmosphere but at the same time they hurt the club time and time again with fines and point deductions. Just cause other club fans cause trouble and act foolish doesn't mean our fans have to follow. Unfortunately, this violence in greek soccer will never end until the EPO and presidents clean it up. They need to force these malakes in jail and ban them from the games. Clean it up like they did in england. The same day of the PAO-Olympiakos derby, madrid got thrashed 4-0 by barcelona and the fans didn't storm the field and make it a mad house. If that happened in greece, the whole country would be burning. I don't blame the families of greece for not showing up to games.

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