adonis Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 wow we even made it to soccernet.com http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id...england&cc=3436 i didnt know that gilberto will be made highest paid player in greece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXX-18T Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 im not sure i like this idea: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/200...89520-20645345/ whats the use of having a 34 year old as CB if we need to replace him again What about Belharouz HTC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Ok guys, we are actually complaining about a player like djebbour? This kid Is a hot head but he is a hot head who scored 14 goals in 22 games last season. and another 3 goals in 6 games in europe. so i dont know about big club hogwash or whatever but the kid CAN play. I would have him over Pap in an instant. no question. I wouold probably pick him before mantzios too. Petropoulos is unproven and Rukavinia is a inexperienced player. From what ive seen of djebbour, he is fast, very skilled and has a knack for scoring. and he scored two beauties off free kicks last season. He is way more skillfull than salpi and has much better aerial game than him too. im sure if he had the amount of chances that salpi or Ndoye had last season, he would of easily had 20 some odd goals last season. Lets not judge a player because he plays for another greek team. Besides im sure if he scores a few beauties n the CL, many french teams will be after him and probably offer 5 or 6 million for him. so im not worried about his resale value. If someone told you at the end of last season that pao would of gotten rid of Romero, Pap, Seric, Postiga,Manucho and Morris and replaced them with Djebbour, Christodoulopoulos, Cleyton, Silva, Gabriel and young czech prospect we would of all been happy. i also like the prospects of Vyntra at CB and anxious to see who we get as a CB before the transfer period ends. According to reports, it looks like, Ndoye,Dimoutso and bryce moon will be loaned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXX-18T Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Apparently we have signed Aaron thats playing for Irakli on laon from Valencia. He is another striker we have thats only 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcoutavas Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 im not sure i like this idea: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/200...89520-20645345/ whats the use of having a 34 year old as CB if we need to replace him again What about Belharouz HTC? Boulahrouz is a liability in my opinion - he fouls way too much. I saw him a few times with Chelsea and he played like garbage. The kid has potential though and who says he can't hang in the Super League where the competition isn't so stiff.Not sure I like the Ooijer idea either. Maybe Mr. ten Cate can lure Jaap Stam out of retirement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levendi2000 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 even better than all these psofious. andre ooijer - dutch international and blackburn defender might be in green colours for the new season. this is an ideal transfer :tup: hope we get him boys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Apparently we have signed Aaron thats playing for Irakli on laon from Valencia. He is another striker we have thats only 19 it is not completed yet but if he does come he will only be here on loan from valencia. Valencia it seems are not keen in selling him as they have plans for his future andre ooijer - the guy is 33yo. do we really want to be attracting a second choice blackburn 33yo CB. Silva at 32 can at least offer something but not sure about ooijer. I agree with boulahrouz is a complete liability and useless - dont like this idea either at all. Goalnews and one other paper i forgot made mention of a French defender zive or something like that - from marseille, i dont know anything about him, except that his 27 yrs old and that marseille spent 5mill on him last summer to get him from monaco so i doubt they will want to let him go cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 boulharouz was one of the best defenders in the bundesliga and only 26 ...... complete liability? useless???? because he struggled at Chelsea, wher pretty much 2/3 signings fail even though they are class? he made his name with Hamburg where he was top class. Gael Givet would be a good signing by the sounds of it too. Ooijer, I dont know why we want him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUDE Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 What are the powers that be at PAO doing??? 9m over 3 years for Gilberto? That's crazy! They'd have been better off bringing Basinas and spending the big bucks on a creative player like D'Alessandro or Shaun Wright Philips. This is a dumb move, Gilberto isn't a fraction of the player he was 2-3 years ago and now he's gone to PAO at this age it will only be to retire and collect a big fat pay cheque. When interviewed last week Gilberto stated "I have no problem playing for Panathinaikos as long as they pay me very well." That says it all. And did you see his apathetic expression when the PAO fans were going nuts around him? He wasn't in awe of the passion, he merely accepted it with an air of contemtuous superiority! http://www.contra.gr/Soccer/Hellas/Superle...kos/205704.html He'll be another Conceicao. The PAO board's intentions are good, but they are going about their spending in the incorrect manner. Teams like Leeds have spent big and unintelligently in the past and look where that got them. Do you guys honestly believe that Gilberto is that much better than Basina or Katsou who could have been signed for a fraction of the money? He isn't. BUT, creative and/or goalscorers are hard to come by on the cheap. Players like D'Alessandro, Shaun Wright Philips, Louis Saha, Aimar, Luis Garcia, Smolarek, Stankovic, Adriano, Cassano, El Hadj-Diouf, etc, are all players that are available and could probably be seduced by PAO with the amount spent on Gilberto (and in some case much less). The Brazilian captain will add stability, but he won't single-handedly win games, whereas these players would. The spending has to be more wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 gilberto silva is way better than basinas and katsouranis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 comparing Silva to katsouranis and basinas is absolutely ridiculous. id rather have katsouranis over basinas anyday and his transfer sum would probably be near 4 or 5 million euros. plus 1 million a year in contract and ur talkin 8 million for 3 years. with 10 million id rather have Silva rather than katsouranis for 8 million. Besides, of the players you mentioned, Dallesandros price tag is somewhere near 8 million GBP and Aimar is close to 7 Million GBP and those are aside from there yearly wages. Silva and Mattos form the best Defensive midfield in greece by far. with players like CLeyton, Xristodolopoulos,Ninis, Ivan, dimoutsos, Kara, Tziolis and Simao, i believe our midfield is just fine. as for Silva accepting the pao fans passion with a sense of superioity, im pretty sure id feel that way if i was captain of the celecao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXX-18T Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Dimoutsos and Ndoye are being loaned out along with Morris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXX-18T Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Romero gone as well http://www.sport-fm.gr/article/138626 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodoj Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Dimoutsos loaned out? Pity as I saw him as a promising talent who could be a fixture for the NT in a couple of years. Where is he going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 What are the powers that be at PAO doing??? 9m over 3 years for Gilberto? That's crazy! They'd have been better off bringing Basinas and spending the big bucks on a creative player like D'Alessandro or Shaun Wright Philips. This is a dumb move, Gilberto isn't a fraction of the player he was 2-3 years ago and now he's gone to PAO at this age it will only be to retire and collect a big fat pay cheque. When interviewed last week Gilberto stated "I have no problem playing for Panathinaikos as long as they pay me very well." That says it all. And did you see his apathetic expression when the PAO fans were going nuts around him? He wasn't in awe of the passion, he merely accepted it with an air of contemtuous superiority! http://www.contra.gr/Soccer/Hellas/Superle...kos/205704.html He'll be another Conceicao. The PAO board's intentions are good, but they are going about their spending in the incorrect manner. Teams like Leeds have spent big and unintelligently in the past and look where that got them. Do you guys honestly believe that Gilberto is that much better than Basina or Katsou who could have been signed for a fraction of the money? He isn't. BUT, creative and/or goalscorers are hard to come by on the cheap. Players like D'Alessandro, Shaun Wright Philips, Louis Saha, Aimar, Luis Garcia, Smolarek, Stankovic, Adriano, Cassano, El Hadj-Diouf, etc, are all players that are available and could probably be seduced by PAO with the amount spent on Gilberto (and in some case much less). The Brazilian captain will add stability, but he won't single-handedly win games, whereas these players would. The spending has to be more wise. man Basinas is absolultey horrible, and not leaving Mallorca - the last season he spent with PAO he was a total liability and lazy...his performances with the ethniki the last 4 years are also not special at all. Katsouranis - what the hell would we want Katsouranis over Gilberto Silva for man...thats ridiculous. Katsouranis vs Gilberto as a holding midfielder is not even a competition. Gilberto is a great player of great class. 3 million a year salary is fine, we can afford it. Weve essentailly paid for another talented hard working holding midfielder and our central midfiled is looking quite good even for most CL standards. El Hadji Diouf??! What is he doing these days? Hes done nothing since 2002 and has no future. SW Phillps - not the type of 'bloke' that we could afford to spend on one player let alone convince him to leave England. The English bred players DO NOT want to leave the EPL, its extremley rare. Im sure the guy would prefer a Manchester City or a Portsmouth instead. Cassano - PAO will not be able to get Cassano man.....No way. Remember it takes more than a lot of money to get these players, they have to want to come to GREECE. Louis Saha - HELL NO. Hes CRAP, I can write you a full guarantee he will not be anything special in terms of producing or making goals with the team and especially for what hell cost. As for single handedly winning games....a handful of players out there can do that. Nobody appreciates the great work players like Gattuso, Gilberto, Flamini ,Makelele have done in the past only the guy who scores or makes a beautiful offensive play but in reality these guys are just as important on the pitch if not more so. The idea is to have TEAMS that win games. I think its quite smart to throw money on a quite important and less glorious position DM so the team can organize around. Before it was Mattos who did great, now its Mattos and Gilberto paired together, instead of Mattos and Tziolis. We just drastically stepped up our quality in the midfield. Another Conceicao is quite silly, if not just words of jealousy... Conceicao is not the captain of Brazil. Flavio also dropped off the elite level maybe 3 or 4 years before he came to PAO. Gilberto had 25 aps with Arsenal last year (and mind you , that was the BEST Arsenal that has shown in Europe, and yes better that 2005 team in the final who WAS crap) The extra scorers touch etc....a lot of players out there can do this. Its hard to understand, but weve seen big foreign players like Louis Saha can come to Greece and hit 10 goals while player like Djibour or Salpiggidis can come to PAO and hit 15...output is not much better and sometimes worse interms of goalscoring, and price is huge. Output of a holding CM like that cant be measured. You need a quality midifield, and it was a smart signing. Yeah Gilberto is 3 million a year. His transfer fee cost next to nothing though... The signings have been fine. We have bought the rights Ivanschitz, Mattos, got Clayton a top young GreekLeague AM, got a top rated Greek young forward, and got a top Croatian prospect, and an experienced Captain of Brazil .. we havent even thrown the big bucks down yet. You also forget that - PAO has a brand new management who is looking to make a good impression has to spend in order to rebuild the team around quality array of players also looking to give a treat to the fans on the centennial theres every reason for PAO to be spending big this year, and yes theres more to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kojak Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Loaning out dimoutsos would be criminal. Such a waste. I dont even want to think about it! :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve07 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 On the Dimoutsos topic: At first I was pissed that he might be getting loaned out but if you stop and think about it, in the end it's better for the kid to go to another team and be in the starting 11 almost every single time whereas he would be reserved to the bench at PAO. Let him go develop this year and then bring him back next year. Now we still need that BAM! striker signing and maybe another Cb and we are good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUDE Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Silva and Mattos form the best Defensive midfield in greece by far. with players like CLeyton, Xristodolopoulos,Ninis, Ivan, dimoutsos, Kara, Tziolis and Simao, i believe our midfield is just fine. as for Silva accepting the pao fans passion with a sense of superioity, im pretty sure id feel that way if i was captain of the celecao. Ok, we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 it could be good for Dimoutsos too...... Elllini is a great player, but he needs more playing time....he gets limited at PAO, and this year especially. He still hasnt been a consistent starter in the Superleague yet....If we can get him to Panionios, Aris, PAOK or something playing every game it would be great for him too. Hed come back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcoutavas Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Nobody appreciates the great work players like Gattuso, Gilberto, Flamini ,Makelele have done in the past only the guy who scores or makes a beautiful offensive play but in reality these guys are just as important on the pitch if not more so. Sad, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYPAO13 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 we need a big time defender Dimoutsos needs miles under his shoes, then will come back, there is no room for him on this team right now...BAM Gilberto sealed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXX-18T Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...nal/7512202.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXX-18T Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 btw Eto could be going to some no name club in Uzbekistan! http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...nal/7512202.stm why cant we go for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUDE Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 theres every reason for PAO to be spending big this year, and yes theres more to come. Initially I wasn't going to reply to this because I'm fed of the dumb replies like this: is quite silly, if not just words of jealousy... But I'm pulling an all-nighter for an essay and I need a break on it so what the hell... Firstly, I'll start by saying, that everytime I make an argument instead of respecting my view and then making a counter argument if you disagree, you attempt to undermine my points by calling me "anti-pao" or "jealous", etc. That makes you look foolish and highlights your inability to construct a solid counter-argument. It actually makes having a football convo with you a chore, and that's a shame because I used to enjoy our discussions so much. So for the last time I'll dismiss the above line by ensuring you that I am not your typical Oly fan that hates PAO. I've grown up abroad and have never felt the rivalry. I love all Greek teams, the only reason I have a soft spot for Oly is because as a kid in the UK they were the Greek team that I would see on tv most frequently in the CL. The first Greek team I saw in action was PAOK, and since then I've sat with hardcore fans of each club, whether Gate 13, Gate 7 or Gate 4, and have felt equally comfortable with them all. And I guarantee you, the emotions I feel when watching PAO or any Greek team in Europe you never feel! All those games are more intense for me than when Oly play PAO. Domestically I don't really mind who wins, I want what's best for Greek football. Last year I saying AEK deserved the title and this year I want either PAO or AEK to win the league because of the league-race last year and because Lemonis and Lua Lua have been mistreated, and that harms Greek football. So please cut it out and talk to me normally. I like talking with you, but this is getting boring and if you carry on I'll stop replying to your posts (something which I really don't want to do). Now back to the Gilberto discussion... There are 2 types of defensive midfielders, the play-making/passer midfielder, like Pirlo, Carrick, Xabi Alonso, etc. And the work-hose holding midfielder like Hargreaves, Keane, Gattuso, etc. The first kind can still perform at an old (33+) age, but the latter cannot because they lose their key weapons (fitness, work-rate, pace, strength, aggression, etc). Gilberto as a player falls into the latter bracket in terms of his style, and at his age there's no way he'll justify the 3m a year salary. Bear in mind that Arsenal are very weak in that position and they still considered the Brazilian as being surplus to requirements! In other words, even Alexandre Song is ahead of him in the pecking order now. That doesn't mean he can't offer something to PAO, that's not what I'm saying; I'm merely arguing that for the money PAO are dishing out, a superior signing could have been made. So a Katsou or Basinas would have been sufficient (even if they are not quite as good as Gilberto), and the money could have been spent elsewhere where a player would have had a greater impact. El Hadji Diouf??! What is he doing these days? Hes done nothing since 2002 and has no future. Now I don't expect you to follow the Prem as thouroughly as I do, after all you live in the US and so it's understandable. However what I do expect is for you not to make judgements on a player that you clearly do not watch regularly, that is just ignorant. Diouf a player who has been a consistently high performer for years. Perhaps the signings of Kleiton and Christo make him an unecessary target because the team has cover there now, but to say he's done nothing since 2002 is ignorant and to say he has no future is also silly, because what future does a 32 year old Gilberto have? SW Phillps - not the type of 'bloke' that we could afford to spend on one player let alone convince him to leave England. The English bred players DO NOT want to leave the EPL, its extremley rare. Im sure the guy would prefer a Manchester City or a Portsmouth instead. He's a match-winner and an impact player. He's like Castillo and he would take the league by storm and have a big impact in the CL too. His contract has expired and he's leaving Chelsea so he's available on a free transfer. For 3m a year he may be tempted to move to a European team building a future. He's also familiar with Ten Cate so that might be a bonus. It's the club's job to convince these players to move abroad. Lua Lua may represent Congo, but he was born and raised in England (Colchester), he's a London-boy like Kazim Richards. Both of them have ventured abroad to Greece and Turkey respectively. Lampard is on the brink of a move to Inter, and Keane, Beckham, Ince, Gazza, Platt, Owen, Vinny Samways, Ronny Whelan, Linekar, etc, have all played abroad. Why? Because they believed that moving abroad was the best move for them. It's the board's job to convince players like SWP to come. Cassano - PAO will not be able to get Cassano man.....No way. Remember it takes more than a lot of money to get these players, they have to want to come to GREECE. Samuel Eto'o is on the brink of a move to Uzbekistan(!), Beckham is in the US, Ronaldinho and Ronaldo contemplated moving to Qatar, Guiza moved to Fener, etc. Money talks my friend, and we're talking about Cassano, a money-hungry, arrogant fool that plays for a mediocre Serie A team. A big pay-day and a chance to play in the CL might well entice him. Louis Saha - HELL NO. Hes CRAP, I can write you a full guarantee he will not be anything special in terms of producing or making goals with the team and especially for what hell cost. Really? Out of interest, when was the last time you saw Saha play? And don't respond by saying, "I've seen him many times". I want specific examples of why he's crap. He went goal-crazy at Fulham and was very good at Man Utd and for France before Utd upgraded their squad even further and Louis lost his place in the team and NT. He's quick, has a great shot, is very good in the air, has an eye for goal and works hard. Nobody appreciates the great work players like Gattuso, Gilberto, Flamini ,Makelele have done in the past only the guy who scores or makes a beautiful offensive play but in reality these guys are just as important on the pitch if not more so. Oh I strongly agree, but the nature of the modern game requires these players to be highly energetic. Gilberto is 32 and has already slowed down significantly. What will he be like in a year or 2 when he ages even more and starts to get used to the slower nature of the Greek game? I'm not against spending big money on a holding midfielder, I'm merely saying that the holding midfielder in question must be highly energetic. Before it was Mattos who did great, now its Mattos and Gilberto paired together, instead of Mattos and Tziolis. Re up until a couple of weeks ago you were saying that PAO didn't need a centre-midfielder because the team had Mattos and the mighty Simao, now you ignore the kid when making your point? Keep your arguments consistent if you want them to have any value. We just drastically stepped up our quality in the midfield. Theoretically I agree, but in reality: 1) The BAM-type money could have been spent better elsewhere 2) Gilberto is 32 now, and is no longer at the level he was, where will he be in a further year and a half? Remember it's a 3 year deal. If he's useless in 12 months because would have aged even further, that would in essence, make his contract 9m for a year! 3) How motivated will he be to maintain a high level and avoid the scenario mentioned in (2)? His prior comments about playing for PAO if the money is right, suggests that he's merely in Greece to retire and collect a big pay cheque. Gilberto had 25 aps with Arsenal last year (and mind you , that was the BEST Arsenal that has shown in Europe, and yes better that 2005 team in the final who WAS crap) Most of the appearances were either as a sub or in cup games. Bear in mind that Arsenal progress in all competitions and play many games over the course of a season. Samaras almost made as many appearances for Celtic as Gilberto did for Arsenal, and he joined in January and was also a sub which pretty much says it all. As for the CL, Gilberto barely featured this time around, and calling the 2005 Arsenal team crap is pretty ridiculous too. The signings have been fine. We have bought the rights Ivanschitz, Mattos, got Clayton a top young GreekLeague AM, got a top rated Greek young forward, and got a top Croatian prospect, and an experienced Captain of Brazil .. we havent even thrown the big bucks down yet. Ok, these sentences show why our opinions differ... I agree completely that so far all the signings have been brilliant (and that includes Gilberto, who undoubtedly is still very, very good by Greek standards if he remains motived). However, I believe that Gilberto is the "big bucks signing", he is the BAM. I don't believe that PAO will bring in a bigger name or more expensive player. If they do, then that's fine... They would have signed a very good and experienced holding midfielder, plus another big player who will win matches with his goals or creativity. I'm not doubting Gilberto's ability, I'm doubting the logic of spending so much on him instead of another player. To explain it more clearly, I'll use this analogy: I like the taste of beef burgers, they can be a hugely enjoyable meal. In the UK, I can get a nice quater-pounder with cheese for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 well maybe the 15 GBP burger is topped with blue cheese, caramelised onions and alafalfa sprouts. (the toppings represent the championships Gilberto silva has won and brings experience to the table that can help the yougsters) Bah all this burger talk is makin me hungry. Either way i think its a FANTASTIC signing. btw Gilberto wont turn 32 until week 11 of the championship. and if he is gonna be over the hill in two years at 33 then Basinas at 33 right now is over the hill as well. so he would be useless. there are 3 positives tot he Silva signing imo. 1- He is a Brazilian superstar, captain of the squad and brings years of experience and im sure is miles ahead of 98.93% of the DM's in greece right now. 2- Just the fact that since we announced his signing, over 17000 season tickets have been sold means money int he pockets for the oweners and will bring in future players of his stature and caliber in the future. Lest not forget that oly brought in Rivaldo and years later were able to draw in players like Galetti and Belluschi. 3- and most importantly... i believe that Gilberto willbe a teacher to the two future dms of pao. Mattos and Simao. he will take them under his wing and make them better in giant strides rather then superleague baby steps. As for the BAM signing, when the captain of brazils national team signs for your team, be it at 31 or 27.... whether ur PAO or Wigan its a big signing and can only do good. I really liek this Rukavinia kid. He looks hungry, has wicked pace and is rated in the top 100 of under 25 talents by all scouts outside of Engand and spain. his run today gave me a kavla. and im totally heterosexual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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