Soprano76

Superleague campaign has been great this season. Champions League qualifications went well. Europa League was a disaster.

I suppose that's fair. Although PAOK is my favorite Greek team, I'm not the die hard that most people on this forum would consider themselves. I'm the type that places the health of Greek football overall above all else. Say what you will for past ills, but Olympiakos are one of the few teams in Greece that can be somewhat competitive in Europe. Besides, it helps out PAOK at the end of the day; a better country co-efficient eases the road to the CL group stages.

@Nilaul PAOthegreat linked it in his edited comment. I haven't gotten around to reading it yet. From the perspective of someone who wants to see Greek football clubs succeed in Europe, it is probably best that OLY gets the 2nd CL spot given that they will probably do more with that opportunity.

That is a good point, but I suppose to provide a simple answer to the question we could ask ourselves this: how many owners of Greek clubs will leave the organizations in a better situation than when they found it? I can really only think of like two or three owners where this is the case.

kind of random, but who do you guys think some of the best and worse owners in the Supa League are? I've been watching these documentaries put out a few years of all the teams in the top flight and Panaitolikos' owner Foti Kostoulas stood out to me as someone who's done a lot for the team and city of Agrinio, almost like a mini-Savvidis in a way. I'd have to say the world right now is Kougias given what he is doing to AEL Larissa at the moment.

Neat little documentary I found on PAS Gianena that was made a few years back:

Any word on the Thai? I'm assuming the deal fell thru.

Disappointed in the result. Let's hope the gavroi pull thru in the next leg.

Interesting. Too bad Smyrna is no longer a Greek city. Imagine having powerhouse clubs Panionio and Apollon across the sea!!

Having a playoff is absolutely rubbish. Are there any European leagues that have an odd number of teams? I think 10 is way too little but would be okay with anywhere from 12-14 teams.

Greece is a country of 10-11 million people where only a handful of teams (PAOK, Aris, AEK, PAO, Oly, maybe OFH/Pan/Iraklis) have any real fanbase. I think 14 teams with 26 games and no play off system is the sweet spot. I wouldnt be opposed to something like 15-16 teams either though. I think the Greek league is better domestically today than it was 4-5 years ago because it is just much more competitive. But one could also make the argument that this is largely because Oly has severely weakened in recent years. Hopefully Greek football is going in the right direction though. New stadia, unbiased referring, and the big teams not being in financial trouble (other than PAO but they are improving on that end) are all positives

Actually, Bashibozuk, you make the fatal mistake of assuming the modern definition of Philhellene is the only context in which it was always used. The term Philhellene was also used in antiquity to describe patriotic Greeks (source: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3D%23110917&redirect=true). So, king Alexander I of Makedonia being described as Philhellene does not exclude him from having Greek ancestry. Herodotus presents conflicting views in his Histories. On the one hand, the Olympic participation story seems to indicate that the southern Greeks didnt consider the commonfolk Macedonians to be Greek. On the other, Herodotus clearly established a genealogical link between the Dorians of southern Greece to the Macedonians of northern Greece when he recounts the historical migration of the Dorian tribes. The latter view has been borne out in the archaeological record as well. The Pella curse tablet and Hesychius' glossary point to the Macedonian dialect being NW Doric Greek with Illyrian/Thracian influence. I think the academic consensus is pretty clear. The ancient Macedonians as we know them were a combination of predominantly Doric Greeks and Hellenized Illyrians/Thracians who displayed a predominantly Greek culture.

Bashibozuk, I'm well aware of the stories surrounding Alexander I. Herodotus recounts a few things about the ancient Macedonians and their kings: - Herodotue gives us the origin story of the Macedonian royal house and how/where they founded their capital of Aegae. - King Alexander I was deemed a Hellene by lineage thru Argive descent by the Olympic committee in Elis. - King Alexander I refers to himself as a Greek by descent to the allied Greek coalition gathered at the Vale of Tempe to fight off the Persians - Before their descent into the Peloponnese, the Dorians were referred to as Macedonians. This indicates some type of common lineage that was present in classical Greek folklore.

He's been a perennial disappointment. Wasted away in Saudi Arabia the past few seasons before coming to Oly this past summer and rode the bench mostly.

I'll check out that YouTube page when I get a moment! I'm with you 100% on the ancient Macedonians being a Greek tribe. This is well attested and academically supported. I also am not too fond of the Prespa Agreement since it recognizes a distinct "Macedonian" language and ethnicity when neither of those exist. The following is tangential to the name dispute but 100 years ago, the wider geographic region of Macedonia was a demographic hodge-podge. Any serious person knows that "ethnic Macedonians" were not a thing until Bulgarians like Goce Delche spoke that narrative into existence. However, Greeks were certainly not the majority and were the 2nd or 3rd most numerous ethno-linguistic group in the region until the population exchanges. Ethnic continuity is quite a dicey thing and I internally debate this all the time, but I would wager a large number of ntopioi Makedones are descended from Slavs who were living in the area during the early 20th century. It's hard to say with the Pontians as well; to what degree are they descended from Greeks who settled in the Black Sea region 2500 years ago or to more recent Anatolian (Laz, Armenian, Turkic) peoples? However, this makes little difference to me. I consider the ntopioi Makedones and Pontioi as 100% Greek so long as they identify as such.

Interesting. Are they Pontian or ntopioi?

We are now halfway through the Football League season and the top 5 are as follows: 1. NPS Volos (38 pts) => promotion-------------------------------2. Kerkyra FC (29 pts) => promotion playoffs-------------------------------3. Apollon Larissa FC (27 pts)4. Panachaiki (24 pts)5. Platanias (24 pts)Panax have really made a push the past month or so are are close to a promotion spot. There's been some rumbling on the internet that if NPS Volos gets promoted they will merge with Olympiakos Volos; would be great news if so because the Superleague doesn't need any bourdelo clubs.

Update on some of the gamma ethniki groups:Group 1: AO Kavala in 2nd place (4 pts behind the lead)Group 2: Veroia in 2nd place (2 pts behind the lead with a game in hand)Group 4: Niki Volos in 1st (47 pts), Oly Volos in 2nd (44 pts)Group 5: Ethnikos Pireaus in 1st (2 pts ahead of 2nd place with a game in hand)Group 7: Egaleio in 1st (8 points ahead of 2nd place)Group 8: Kalamata in 1st (4 points ahead of 2nd place)Most teams have played anywhere from 15-17 games so far.

Cognitive dissonance is truly powerful. As is customary, it seems like the Skopian diaspora are much more radicalized than the people living in Skopia itself. If you want a laugh, take a look at the "Macedonian Truth" forum. They view any evidence backing the Macedonians being a Greek tribe as either fake or misinterpreted. They genuinely believe that the Greek government pays tens of thousands to academic around the world to lie about this stuff. It's amazing.

That red card kills. Half way here though!

Fetfatzidis coming to Aris?

Minor detail but Michelis is an Asteras product, no?

Good win against a tough team. Bravo Aris.

12-14 is a good spot. What you really need is successful clubs in larger towns like Larissa, Patra, Heraklion and Volos that can support a competitive club financially. Atromitos have had an impressive run recently but are never going to be at the bottom of Super League attendances.

I think it's better off that way. Their best players seem to be loanees so once they go back to their actual teams the talent will be a bit drained. I'd rather the European spot go to Aris or Xanthi.