RED SHERIFF

yep...these guys really care about workers......and job creation???

see below....... If this did happen in Oly v Panthrax you guys would be saying it was rigged for Oly to lose either because Panthrax are a satellite club or because Marinakis had put money on this result in some obscure asian gambling syndicate... are we sure that APOEL v Doxa was not rigged ?? I'd say go and look at other threads on this forum and see how scathing PAOK/AEK/PAO fans are on their own management and on recruiting policies....... unfortunately some times the elephant in the room is scarier than the bogey man....

it happened in 2008/9 did not really change things?

its not as simple as us being a small team from a non competitive league.....that's under stating how strong the top 4-5 leagues are..... the seedings and clubs from same leagues not playing each other makes it even more difficult.. I think for us to get better...we need to build a strong core and add to it each year by getting players where they are needed,.. for example in the summer we need two quality CD....and 2 quality wide players.....constant rebuilding and revolving door does not help... If I did not know our record and I was reading your posts and how critical you are of us...I would assume our record is no better than that of Malmo, BATE, Dinamo, Celtic......however we have accumulated many points over many years... there is a lot of luck involved and fine margins in UCL.......For example we may draw PSG or Juve first up at home next season.....a possible 1-0 would be great....a 1-2 would be a mini disaster....yet our preparation and performance in either result may be the same...

Is it too insensitive for us to really say what we think?

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getting 9 points is a massive achievement from pot 3... a lot of the teams you quote above from pot 3/4 come from very high standard leagues and are therefore quality teams..Dortmund x 2...Man city , Monaco, Roma, Napoli, Malaga, PSG, Juve, Leverkusen x3, Wolfsburg....etc.... they need to be quality teams to finish in CL spots in their leagues...we can't debate this...also they have the added benefit that they avoid teams from their own country..... Zenit and Kiev also have the advantage of mafiozo dollars.....Ukraine/Russian clubs have the mafia sugar daddies that poor big money...into transfers......

You are starting again amorgos...you can't help yourself...FACT!!!!! Worry about Platellas and Dounis and your poster boy aravidis or whatever his name is? How long before he is back at Panionios or Aris?

1) when was the last time Panthrax or any team were denied a clear penalty in the 95th minute v Olympiakos? 2) in Greece if the score is 1-1 and oly are playing a small team if any more than 2-3 minutes injury time are played..the rest of you are up in arms about'where did the corrupt ref find the 5 extra minutes'? 3) If this did happen in Oly v Panthrax you guys would be saying it was rigged for Oly to lose either because Panthrax are a satellite club or because Marinakis had put money on this result in some obscure asian gambling syndicate... 4) are we sure that APOEL v Doxa was not rigged ?? I'd say go and look at your own threads on this forum and see how scathing PAOK/AEK/PAO fans are on their own management and on recruiting policies....... unfortunately some times the elephant in the room is scarier than the bogey man....

no...you would not see it in England either....... APOEL and Doxa don't play in England or Greece..............???

he was actually 22-23 in 2008..born June 1985

not sure what you expect from a team like Olympiakos in UCL? How many times do Gala, Fener, Celtic, Anderlecht etc make the r.16?...... this year was the first time a team from Belgium have made the r.16 in history...that's how difficult it is... Not sure if you realise how difficult it is for teams from pot 3/4 with limited budgets to get points in UCL? I HAVE BEEN SCATHING OF OSFP player selection policies and squad management for many years.....however the degree of difficulty in UCL....And the luck required to get 5,6,7,8 points is at times under estimated... Anderlecht have had more than one season in UCL.. BATE have been somewhat respectable....but to put them on a higher level than Dinamo or Malmo is a cheap shot...So to is trying to imply the non selection of Schindefield really means anything in the context of this debate... Last season we got 6 points off Juve and Athletico Madrid.....the year before 4 points off Benfica and 6 off Anderlecht...and we were 1-1 away to PSG into injury time... in recent years we have got 9 points in groups including Dortmund, Marseille, Arsenal, Bayern, Juve, Benfica,PSG,At.Madrid, Anderlecht, Lazio, Werder......we have also played some massive opponents Roma, Real......etc... Not sure when BATE played Liverpool????? Ludogrets did....and they have only played UCL once...

I don't believe we don't care about Europa...... I think its naive to down grade the feats of Dnipro....they made the final.....and Levante were a decent side 3 years ago..... Spanish teams dominate Europa League in mass numbers.... If you look at both those ties...we did not help ourselves with coach changes in January... The Dnipro tie was also lost due to some poor officiating.....Mitro had a goal disallowed....and we had two late penalty calls turned down..2-0 could easily been 2-1....different tie then... So we were serious v Rubin for 180 minutes and serious v Metalist for 170 minutes but suddenly after 171st minute we decided Europa League does not matter??? I don't buy it...... all this talk is out of frustration....and over analysing....and just being a 'negative greek'.... Not sure how you can rate Dinamo Zagreb, Anderlecht, Malmo lower than BATE or Ludgorets.....this again is being extremely negative for the sake of it.....trying to create an arguement just to prove a point that can't be proven..... It would be like me trying to down play the Bundesliga on the basis that Dortmund could not beat PAOK this season and because they finished behind Oly 4 years ago in CL group....I then throw in Mainz being eliminated by Asteras....just to add more sauce to my argument....Even though it's total nonsense...

have the matches v Australia been confirmed? As I have not heard anything in local media.....Normally they bore us to tears with marketing and selling these matches .

in hindsight it would have been a white elephant and a 1980s relic today...unless....it was upgraded somehow for Athens 2004... I really can't see the use of a 120k stadium in Greece...nor in most parts of the world for regular league football..... I don't really recall how.why this never went ahead....I suspect Greek planning and bureaucracy... There is a lot of illogical infighting and symbolic causes that lead to inaction in Greece... let's assume that TEN years ago both AEK and PAO had proceeded with the proposals to build new stadia at ODDY and Votanikos.....would those clubs be better off today? Probably yes... although we hear a lot of chest beating and boring greek politics and side show conspiracies as to why PAO and AEK are better off now.... sometimes progress can only be made by letting go of the past..

so where do you believe the whole 12 mile dispute between Greece/Turkey ending up? just another ongoing issue that seems very important to a few...but will remain on the back burner and continue to be good kafeneio talk?

I think you are over looking a very important issue..... Karaiskaki was built on land owned by HOC. (thus the stadium is owned by HOC - defacto state owned)......Not land owned by the clubs...as in AEK's case... Hence the free hold land at Karaiskaki is not owned by OSFP or any President etc....never will be.. Notwithstanding this the government needs to assist in major capital projects .. I don't think funding is the issue currently with AEK......Its Greek bureaucracy... For those of you old enough to remember...OSFP was planning to build a monster stadium at Rendi....but ran into many obstacles..from within and from the outside... you may also recall that Karaiskaki was built in record time in 2003-04...for the Olympics....Athens 2004 tried to convince the IOC very late in the process that Rizoupoli was to be used for football matches....IOC rightly rejected this.....and Athens 2004 was forced to dig deep and get Karaiskaki built..... Coincidentally Kokkalis/osfp had spent millions to get Rizoupoli to a standard for GSL matches...(as it was our temporary home 2003-04)... hence why today it still looks better than a lot of other stadiums..

there are no such issues...A Makedona or a Cretan feels equally as greek as anyone else..

to start with the stadium was rebuilt not renovated.....and if the stadium is owned by Hellenic Olympic Committee and we pay rent or fees what is the issue??

Italy, Spain and Germany take games around the country.. I'd confine matches to locations with good stadia...Volos,Larissa, Patra, Iraklio, Thessaloniki...

yes... we have either euro or WC qualifiers every calendar year..... we have enough young/er/ish players in our best 20-25... Kapino, Kitsiou, Stafyllidis, Manolas, K.Pap Fortounis, Pelkas, Mandalos, Taxi, Petsos, Giannotas, Fountas, Kolovos ,Karelis there will always be room for impressive club form by players like Diamantakos, Oikonomou., Vellios, Kourbelis., Bouchalakis....etc... even Ninis,Fetfa, Klonaridis etc... ok...there's 20+ names in a two minute dribble... without mentioning players in their peak/prime...Mitro, Samaris, Holebas, Karnezis, Sokratis,

I think the comment was centered around the fact that most if not all NT games are played at Karaiskaki... I would think it would be a good idea to play these matches at AEL Arena, Volos, Patra.... we played Serbia at Platanias last year...which made zero sense..

And who are all of these young players??? if you believe we are gone for the next 5 years.....what is the plan??? play Vellios at 23 knowing he is not better than a 27 yo Mitro...in the hope that he is better for the 2022 WC qualifiers when he will be 30????

neither do I....

thankfully ...this music means nothing to a middle class middle aged Greek - Australian.... and the whole hip hop baseball cap look means even less..